Changes to the core game


Adelie

 

Posted

Supersidekicking - I play this game primarily with a couple of friends who have fairly severe altitis, and it was always a pain to try to come up with three characters on the same server having at least 2 of about the same level so somebody could sidekick the third. Now any two of us can join the third doing anything and still all get XPs and not have to worry about it. Or, when our other friends join, or we join a PUG, or form a PUG, no level Tetris required.

Invention Enhancements - the "original" end game, with those the average online population of level 50s went from about 2% to more like 15-20% at times, since people now had things they could do to improve them. In my opinion that, combined with much wider availability of respecs, gave this game a lot of staying power, since you could now try your favorite blaster with THIS combination of powers/slotting, or THAT combination of powers/slotting, and so on, with the required accumulation of stuff to do that. There were some puzzling design decisions in this, like half a dozen snipe sets but only three regular AoE sets, but overall the debates over various build slotting on the forums show that there are different ways to legitimately do things.

The Market - tied to the above, not only does this provide a mini game within the game, and allow easy funding of characters when it was once a struggle to afford SOs on any new server until you had a high level character, but I also think they made some great decisions when they set it up, whether on purpose or by accident. Subtle things like common IO recipes selling for a lot, to provide a funding source, but set IO recipes selling for comparatively little to encourage people to put them on the market. After using a market system on a different MMO, where each *individual item* has a separate sale listing but they are all in a random order with no search function, and you can't put anything for sale or put in a bid lasting longer then 3 days, I appreciate how much better this one is.


 

Posted

Things that changed the game for me...

Getting Fly in CoH open beta.

Back in late 2004 realizing that Radiation Emission buffs and debuffs could stack and make a team sickly overpowered. That was the birth of Buffer Overrun and Superteams for me. I've done MANY Superteams since then.

/demorecord, and the fact that it produces text files that describe what is happening in the game. It let me figure out how Movement powers worked, and I published a big guide on it. It let me figure out animation times for powers, so I could develop optimized attack chains. It let me make a script to calculate DPS for every member of a team. It let me map mob distributions in game by level.

Red Tomax and City of Data. Learning the numbers behind the game.

Mids

AFK farming

Getting a second account

Global chat

CoV

PIGG diving

Ouroboros

INVENTIONS!!!

The Market

Getting my wife to play, and losing my second account.

Permadom on my Fire/Psi Dom

Incarnates

CEBR


Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scientist View Post
Supersidekicking - I play this game primarily with a couple of friends who have fairly severe altitis, and it was always a pain to try to come up with three characters on the same server having at least 2 of about the same level so somebody could sidekick the third. Now any two of us can join the third doing anything and still all get XPs and not have to worry about it. Or, when our other friends join, or we join a PUG, or form a PUG, no level Tetris required.
I at one point was in a regular group of 8, and... yes. The level Tetris. Oh, god, the level Tetris. We had to make spreadsheets, and keep them updated. It's one of those things you kind of forget what a pain in the *** it was until suddenly you don't have to do it anymore.

One of the biggest "game changing things that I didn't expect to be" was just powerset recoloring. It makes the world less artificial seeming, I guess, and adds the perception of depth and random weirdness that a world filled with random lunatics wielding the power of gods ought to have.


@Mindshadow

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
1. Travel powers and basic movement. Seriously, just about every first-person MMO I've played has a system of movement where a rock is an impenetrable barrier. War Walls may be an annoying game fiction, but in City of Heroes I can go from anywhere to anywhere else that is accessible at all by simply moving there. I leap over fences. I just plain fly over buildings. I jump from the bottom to the top of cliffs. And it is always jarring when I switch to most other MMOs and I can *see* it, but can't actually *move to it*.

Not to mention: spending most of your time jogging slower than you can in real life. It sometimes borders on the pathetic unless the scenery is really, really *really* good.

5. Chat. Ours is good. Everyone else's sucks. Period the end.

Ok, that other MMO I can't name? If you forget the comands to chat they have a selector, just like we do. You can basically do the equivalent of talking local, sending tells, talking on the main global channels. Guess what's not there, and I only found this out the first time I needed to do it and it wasn't there. Talk to your team mates.

Guess it must have slipped their minds.
#1 - Probably number one reason I don't play the gorilla. At least with Space Epic Online, either you have the travel platforms or plenty of those xp-bonus side quests that pop up as you move.

#5 - True global chat is awesome, and global friends too. SEO has server-wide faction specific player channels, but still not full global channels or friends.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopDoc View Post
Getting my wife to play, and losing my second account.
Hah. And of course, all of us in RO are thankful


Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net

Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by afocks View Post
I remember getting kicked from a BAF trial just before NS and Seige went down just because some jerk disagreed with me, that changed the game for me - and my subscription.
Good luck with any other MMO!

Lots of things have been game changers.

IOs to me is the biggest one.

ED made one felt weaker than before to go along with the GDN, and it was all suckie, but made up for with IOs for a more unique and better experience. I know there are still players who want to ignore IOs, but for me, I think IOs are exactly what CoH needed.

Now only if they would of left enhancements and thr auction house as just a game mechanic and not as some sort of IC thing.

CoH's character creator is what keeps me. There is one MMO that I tried to get into because all my RL friends played it, and I just couldn't get into it with everyone looking the same.

When I saw the sword I wanted for my character and decided that's what they would use all the time, I was willing to work towards that hard to get sword. But then they came out with a new expansion and that sword would be useless now!

I gave up on that game. I hear they've made it so you can keep the looks of previous gear now which is good, but it's just to late for me to get into that game.

CoH has it's faults, and I always hope to see those faults go away, even if that means a CoH2, but damn if CoH doesn't get more things right than the others that do get a few thing right but just more things wrong (for me).


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

The one-hour TF with Merits. The ability to jump onto the new-style TF (Katie, LGTF, ITF, etc...) that wasn't meant to go on for days (Synapse, Shard TFs) but could be done in an hour without the usual merry-go-round change of teammates that came from doing individual missions enabled me to have an enjoyable stress-free time playing that kept moving and was epic but not interminable. Then when the reward was switched from Crap of the Hunter drops to Merits which finally allowed access to the better IOs, then that brought about real advancement for my main toon. Fun times plus end game advancement.

That's why I like the Incarnate TFs and Trials which are the same deal but with more advanced end game advancement.


Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Punishing the studio? Are we in indentured servitude to them in some way? I was under the impression that we're paying for a service to occupy our spare time. If jerkasses ruin that service, then that's all that factors in. "Is it fun?"
Yes, punishing the studio. I don't know where you got that idiotic "indentured servitude" nonsense, though. Yes, removing his payment to them because of a player being a jerk. Sure, it may factor into the "is it fun" thing, but, really, it's not Paragon's fault. Pretty sure what he described was a reportable incident, too. Just seems stupid to quit the game as a knee-jerk response to one person's (richard) move.




Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger42 View Post
Yes, punishing the studio. I don't know where you got that idiotic "indentured servitude" nonsense, though. Yes, removing his payment to them because of a player being a jerk. Sure, it may factor into the "is it fun" thing, but, really, it's not Paragon's fault. Pretty sure what he described was a reportable incident, too. Just seems stupid to quit the game as a knee-jerk response to one person's (richard) move.
Not really. Those who hold the star and form the team, to my knowledge are suppossed to beable to decide who is and isnt allowed on their team for whatever reason.

Sucks in some ways, great in others.


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

Global Chat.

Whenever someone is trialing/betaing a new MMO my first question to them is always about the chat.

Without a true Global chat I'm just not interested.

When the chat channels go down here. Its like we are pitched back into the dark ages.



@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
Good luck with any other MMO!
Seriously. Rude players have grown exponentially in MMOs over recent years. It's not a CoH thing. Not even really an MMO thing. It's the internet in general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
Not really. Those who hold the star and form the team, to my knowledge are suppossed to beable to decide who is and isnt allowed on their team for whatever reason.

Sucks in some ways, great in others.
Kicking right before the last fight could be considered griefing. Depends on the GM you get, it's one of those gray areas. Of course, there is a lot to the story I'm sure isn't being said. Can't really say what he's describing as "just disagreeing with" the leader...




Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint

 

Posted

Interestingly, I occasionally swap between CoH and a global cooldown based game, and mostly I find that I like global cooldown. I don't feel like I'm Not Doing Anything; I feel like I'm in the process of doing a thing that happens pretty quickly. I guess I acclimated. (It may help that the first thing I played in such a game was a character whose powers all took longer than GCD to activate.)


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by afocks View Post
I remember getting kicked from a BAF trial just before NS and Seige went down just because some jerk disagreed with me, that changed the game for me - and my subscription.
i, uh, i fail to see what that has to do with the core game, or even the game in particular, at all. i'd say "welcome to the world of material things where some of the things are jerks no matter where you go", but i suppose there's no need to restate the obvious.

A few changes to the core game that stood out for me...
1. Doors in missions that can be opened.
2. Ragdolling.
3. DR&ED&IOs. (In a good way.)
4. Side switching.
5. Power customization.
i'm sure i could think of many more, but that's what immediately came to mind.

Edit: After a little thought (and sleep) it occurred to me that supersidekicking really should have been number one. i hated having to juggle sidekicks to put together a viable team.


Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scientist View Post
Supersidekicking - I play this game primarily with a couple of friends who have fairly severe altitis, and it was always a pain to try to come up with three characters on the same server having at least 2 of about the same level so somebody could sidekick the third. Now any two of us can join the third doing anything and still all get XPs and not have to worry about it. Or, when our other friends join, or we join a PUG, or form a PUG, no level Tetris required.

Invention Enhancements - the "original" end game, with those the average online population of level 50s went from about 2% to more like 15-20% at times, since people now had things they could do to improve them. In my opinion that, combined with much wider availability of respecs, gave this game a lot of staying power, since you could now try your favorite blaster with THIS combination of powers/slotting, or THAT combination of powers/slotting, and so on, with the required accumulation of stuff to do that. There were some puzzling design decisions in this, like half a dozen snipe sets but only three regular AoE sets, but overall the debates over various build slotting on the forums show that there are different ways to legitimately do things.

The Market - tied to the above, not only does this provide a mini game within the game, and allow easy funding of characters when it was once a struggle to afford SOs on any new server until you had a high level character, but I also think they made some great decisions when they set it up, whether on purpose or by accident. Subtle things like common IO recipes selling for a lot, to provide a funding source, but set IO recipes selling for comparatively little to encourage people to put them on the market. After using a market system on a different MMO, where each *individual item* has a separate sale listing but they are all in a random order with no search function, and you can't put anything for sale or put in a bid lasting longer then 3 days, I appreciate how much better this one is.
All of these things. I spend 99% of my gaming time A) Making money on the market so that I can B) Create top-end IO builds (top-end enough to please me at least) so that i can C) Run TFs and missions of all levels with my friends.

Without super sidekicking, IOs and the market, I would be doing none of those things and would likely not be playing the game anymore.

However, D) Continually expanding costume options helps a lot too. ^_^



my lil RWZ Challenge vid

 

Posted

Mission Architect changed this game for me.

It's one thing making your own characters, designing their appearances, their stories, backgrounds, etc. But actually writing a story yourself and getting to see it all come to life right in front of you? Too awesome. I've made so many AE arcs for myself and friends to enjoy, that alone has justified my subscription. I just wish the devs would focus a little more time on adding cool new features to the AE.


 

Posted

Super sidekicking.. one of the greatest things in CoH. Level doesn't matter, no more playing around to get enough sidekicks or exemplars for everyone, no more worrying about a sudden net outage removing more then one player from your team. No worries about if a friend tries the game we can both play the game with whichever and at whatever level we decide to play at.

I love the ways to play the game.. I can street sweep, I can do endless missions(shard mission, warzone missions, Cim missions), I can do micro arcs (tips/scanner), I can do story arcs, I can do Task Forces.. I can create missions, make a supergroup base, go badge hunting, jump off the top of builds and splat into the ground for giggles (I do that WAY too often), and spend hours just bouncing around in the shadow shard on the geysers while singing The Gummi Bears theme song.

I enjoy the costume creator and have spent countless hours working on looks and concepts to get things right.

I love that building can easily be an extension of roleplaying or of powergaming and both as well.

I love the binds that we can make.. my first character was a teleporter and the teleport bind changed everything.

Even after all these years I am really looking forward to what is coming in the future.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger42 View Post
Yes, punishing the studio. I don't know where you got that idiotic "indentured servitude" nonsense, though. Yes, removing his payment to them because of a player being a jerk. Sure, it may factor into the "is it fun" thing, but, really, it's not Paragon's fault. Pretty sure what he described was a reportable incident, too. Just seems stupid to quit the game as a knee-jerk response to one person's (richard) move.
I got the "indentured servitude" nonsense from your nonsense assertion that I owe the studio jack squat. I pay my subscription, I buy from their Market, I praise the game to all of my friends and I support the community as best I can. And half these things I don't have to do. That, to my eyes, is more than enough return for the service I'm getting. I don't, therefore, owe the studio to keep playing their game when I no longer have fun in it.

You keep saying "punishing," but I don't think that word means what you're using it to mean. What you want is "hurting" the studio. "Punishment" is a penalty applied for some transgression, with the implied intent to make some entity pay for that transgression through pain or discomfort. What's happening here, however, is a very natural thing for a player to do - to leave a game. Whether that hurts the studio or not is immaterial, because the player is not leaving to spite Paragon Studios or to try and tank their game. He's leaving because he dislikes playing the game.

Yes, the reason is stupid, but that doesn't make it punishment in the slightest. Not unless you want to infer we, as players, have a duty to support the studio that our failure to live up to has to be inferred either as ineptitude or malice. Now THAT is nonsense, because people leaving a game is not an evil thing and is not, in and of itself, a subject of animosity. You can't blame players for leaving, no matter their reason, because that is their right to do, and no-one can argue with them. It is neither my business not yours what people do with their own time and money.

I find that a business does best when it has a positive rapport with its people, and they feel comfortable with choosing what to do and how to do it. A business which is emotionally manipulative and tries to guilt people out of leaving is one business that would lose my own subscription right quick, as is a business who demonises people that don't comply. We buy into these games to have fun, and the last thing I, personally, need at a time when I'm not having fun is people accusing me of betrayal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
And, really, damn near every other MMO I try these days comes off like a WoW clone. Even Star Wars has that three-rectangle skill tree. Feh.
Irony of this part being that in their next expansion, WoW is getting rid of said 3 rectangle skill tree.



Let's see, what changed the game for me...

Inherent Fitness -- Before veteran rewards I'd just have to skip powers I wanted to it it in. After vet rewards I'd take powers I wanted while leveling, then burn a vetspec at 20 to get stamina. Now I don't have to worry about the whole nonsense at all.

Being able to start Basic ATs on any side -- I'm honestly not a fan of redside. I know there are people who love it. I am not one of them. That said I do LOVE some (formerly) villain archetypes. It's great that I can now just make them on the side I want them to be on.

Base Building -- It's like a game within a game. When I get tired of the game proper I can fall back on building, maintain connections to the community I'm a part of, and still enjoy my time.


@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
I got the "indentured servitude" nonsense from your nonsense assertion that I owe the studio jack squat.
And the claim that I made such an assertion is nonsense. Since the premise of your whole reply is nonsense you pulled out of thin air, I'm not going to bother with the rest. If you have to make crap up and attribute it to me in order to argue with me, don't bother replying to me. I neither said nor even vaguely implied any such thing.

Fact: Paragon benefits from each person's subscription
Fact: Cancelling your subscription harms them.
Fact: Harming them in retribution is punishment
Fact: Punishing them for a player's actions which they have no control over is just plain stupid

Nowhere does that even vaguely imply that we "owe" them anything.




Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger42 View Post
And the claim that I made such an assertion is nonsense. Since the premise of your whole reply is nonsense you pulled out of thin air, I'm not going to bother with the rest. If you have to make crap up and attribute it to me in order to argue with me, don't bother replying to me. I neither said nor even vaguely implied any such thing.

Fact: Paragon benefits from each person's subscription
Fact: Cancelling your subscription harms them.
Fact: Harming them in retribution is punishment
Fact: Punishing them for a player's actions which they have no control over is just plain stupid

Nowhere does that even vaguely imply that we "owe" them anything.
I dispute that one person cancelling their subscription harms Paragon. Its like losing a strand of hair - it naturally happens to everyone every day and in far greater numbers, yet we mostly don't notice unless the hair stops growing back. It's a particularly laughable notion these days, given that Paragon is turning the lost hair into a wig.


Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzhi View Post
I dispute that one person cancelling their subscription harms Paragon. Its like losing a strand of hair - it naturally happens to everyone every day and in far greater numbers, yet we mostly don't notice unless the hair stops growing back. It's a particularly laughable notion these days, given that Paragon is turning the lost hair into a wig.
Harm is harm, even if small. It's really the only form of harm we have at our disposal to inflict on them ( legally ).

Anyway, I apologize for the derail. It was just a statement I had to respond to, then when the rebuttal was based on something completely fabricated...well, I was annoyed.




Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
And, really, damn near every other MMO I try these days comes off like a WoW clone. Even Star Wars has that three-rectangle skill tree. Feh.
I don't entirely object to that. Done well, it can give a really amazing degree of flexibility (say, if you get to pick WHICH three rectangles you have...).

There's a tradeoff between flexibility and vision. A CoH character will always have a pretty narrowly-defined vision, because you can't change your focus or build at all, but there are a lot of them and they have interesting synergies. In other games, you have a lot more room for reimagining a character, but in all but one of them I can think of, you have fewer real choices on the table.

... Which is why I play CoH and one other MMO, and ignore the others.


 

Posted

Things that changed the game for me:

1) ED + Control Nerfs: These two things hit about the same time and drove me away from the game.

2) Inventions: These brought me back as I was able to not only recover most of what I lost to ED/Control Nerfs but to go beyond that in new and interesting ways.

3) APP/PPP's: These higher end power pools added what I always felt was missing for each archetype. The option to break the mold a bit and step outside the norm. These add a level of customization and variety that truly fleshes out characters.

4) Power Customization: This was a huge game changer. It didn't just affect the colors of my powers (and the odd alternate animation availability) it also affected how I designed costumes and developed backgrounds for my characters. I can only hope we'll finally see pool/APP/PPP customization soon. It's the last bit of customization I feel I need to make my characters cohesive.

5) CoV/Going Rogue: While these came at different times I lump them together because what I gain from them is connected. I've never been one to be the "bad guy" but I loved how interesting and unique the villain AT's were. Being able to change sides let me play the villain AT's as heroes and thus the way I enjoy the game.

6) Incarnate Content: This finally added what COH was always missing... progression beyond the level cap. Not only that it adds some seriously game changing abilities all on its own. That said... until I22 when we get solo incarnate content I've largely ignored it after the initial rush since I am not really fond of the trials.

7) The Alpha Slot: While this is technically part of the incarnate content, I personally feel it deserves special mention. This alone was game changing. As a global enhancement it affects so much about your character and at tier 3 or 4 is the only slot that actually gives you a level adjustment outside of the trials. To me, this slot has more impact than any other incarnate ability.

8) Freedom: While I still maintain my VIP status, Freedom has changed the game for me in huge ways. The amount of content the devs have given us since its launch has been staggering. And while I may not always like what they put out, the fact that I know I don't have to wait 3-6 months for something new is a huge change for the better.


Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
How about powers that reflect control powers back at the caster?
How about powers that reflect melee/AoE damage back at their caster with no resistance tags?
--------------------

Controllers are what changed the game for me. They help break the holy trinity, and lack of that is what really keeps me playing. I don't need to get a healer, or a tank, or a whatever. I can hit just about all content in the game with any team I want.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSummerEvening View Post
How about powers that reflect melee/AoE damage back at their caster with no resistance tags?
Yeah... If you're going to give not only true immunity but reflection back of certain ATs' main weapon, then every AT should have a similar weakness. Your ( hopefully tongue-in-cheek ) suggestion makes as much sense as the one you're replying to: None.




Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint

 

Posted

I have to go with the invention system and the markets as number one .. I can recall when even attempting to battle a GM like Lusca required 2 and sometimes even 3 teams .. and even then if they didnt coordinate you spent more time dead than battling. Now with IOs some players solo giant monsters. Add the increase in overall wealth that allows us to slot early amd with the best enhancements available... I can still recall going back to revisit some older characters I had on another server and discovering that in the thirties they still were using double and even training origin enhancers because back then it was all most of us could afford.

Going Rogue, Vigilante, etc is way there on the list as well ... It opens up so much more content to a character and makes it much easier to find a team...... no one around on red side I simply head to the RWZ and go look for a team on the blue side. Tons more badges and missions to enjoy!

Newspaper and Radio missions .. Ive played long enough to recall when there was no such thing as ninja run or beast run and with no raptor pack a character had to RUN from mission to mission on foot. The only available content was from contacts that, blue side especially, delighted in send you off to other zones again and again. Worst part was if you made the mistake of soling constantly, which I did with my regen scrapper, it was possible to actually run out of missions before reaching the next level... at 19 I had done every mission from every contact and had to street hunt and run door missions in pvp zones to get to twenty so my contacts in Talos would speak to me.

Super Side Kick .. for me at least this was a real treat. Before if I missed a TF or trial I basically just forgot about it because the idea of spending several hours earning no xp just made it something I was not about to do. Now I took my fifty level badger and ran the new sewer trials just to get those badges and earned influnece at the same rate as if I was on a fifty plus Incarnate Trial. Most of my characters have the added advantage of Task Force Commander and even if I am just looking for a pug team.. if I cant find one my level I have no problem running twenty level missions with a forty level

Time Travel .. I had friends that were serious badge freaks years ago that would actively seek to hit the debt cap to make sure they didnt outlevel a contact before managing to coax a badge mission out of them. Now.. just head to Ouroborus and run it anytime!


�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon