Level 53 and weaker than a Hellion

I have two thoughts regarding Silver Gale's rationale:

1. Trying to contrive an in-game explanation will always fail in the face of other competing, contradictory in-game concepts. Am I to accept that the Telepathist's powers of suggestion are so strong that they can get my powered armor toon to spend five minutes removing his Impervium Armor battlesuit? Or that said powers of suggestion can somehow "convince" a mutant this his inherent powers don't work anymore? I'm sorry, but that dog just don't hunt.
2. These same Scryers are found in abundance in Praetoria in the Maria Jenkins arc. These Scryers are not hanging out with mere normal citizens, but with large mobs of ACUs, BCUs, Mark VI Victorias, Heavy Troopers, Commanders, etc. If you think a handful of unpowered citizens armed with rocks are a legitimate threat when presided over by a single Telepathist, then no toon in the game would be capable of standing up to the mobs in the Maria Jenkins arc for more than about five seconds.

I'm sorry but the conceptual disconnect between the enemies and mechanics in the 1-50 game and the very same enemies and mechanics in the Incarnate content is fast becoming too wide. I recognize that the devs need to make the Incarnate content more challenging, but I think the way they are going about it is highly dubious.

This I agree with.

Isn't that kind of the point, though? If the citizens are supposed to be a hindrance and public opinion an important mechanic, then making the civilians easier to kill as their primary form of interference seems superior to just making them dangerous via conventional attacks. It makes sense from a narrative perspective - you're there to win the hearts and minds of the people, not fight them directly. Having to NOT kill them makes them both dangerous AND not irrationally powerful.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Right there with you, Sam.

To further expound on this problem, while the Seers debuff may make some sense as them invading our minds, it doesn't explain why this lack of morale only takes effect for the citizens. We are so demoralized that a stone causes a great amount of damage, but step inside the buildings and we're taking damage from RPGs and energy weapons at the same rate. The gap from stone to weapons is just too small.

It sounds like more advanced version the "fake damage" Illusion Controllers inflict.

I thoroughly beleive that games without 'combat levels' should exist, and I used to play at least one before they revamped it.

In a way, that's kind of what the Incarnate system is like here. Level shifts are important, but it is also highly important what abilities you have unlocked and slotted.

As usual, City of is trying to have the best of all worlds...and succeeding to an extent.

Particularly since Marauder powers up in Lambda drinking his "super juice" from an Enriche bottle.

Who knows whats in that stuff now?

Therein lies one of the fundamental problems with the game - a serious lack of consistency. Enemies we encounter commonly seem to be built from the ground up for every encounter: Ghost Widow is perhaps the epitome of that - she has such variance in potency depending on where you encounter her. The civvies in the TPN seem to be a bit tougher than any others I can recall encountering.

"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

I think that would be a brilliant solution. Let it reheal after a certain amount of time just like Illusion's damage.

Well, you are fully free to reject her suggestion (I liked it personally), but it doesn't change the fact that mechanically, it is the stacking debuffs of Seers that're kicking your ***. If you don't want to get beaned by a rock and insta-K.O.ed, kill the damn Seers.

Seriously, it's like you people have completely forgotten how godly powerful buffs and debuffs are in this game.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicFeather



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Nah, I think it's more Neuron thinking, "Before I put this in the water supply I'll test this on Michael. He'll drink anything."

Those debuffs still apply inside the buildings. Why aren't the IDF weapons one shotting people as often? High base damage on a freaking rock.

The Architect was actually a very rude awakening in this regard. Custom critters in the Architect are "fair," in the sense that they have our stats, our powers, our numbers, and unless the author specifically tweaks them, they're always the same. That makes some critters vastly more powerful than others.

SupaFreak showed me his first draft of his story arc which featured my Brutticus from his character contest. Brutticus is an Axe/Shield Brute, and he'd given her four Axe attacks, plus the mandatory ranged attack. Brutticus was outdamaging and putting to shame my Titan Weapons Brute that I was playing on the mission accompanying her. Brutticus is MY character using MY powers, and yet she was still outstripping me because she'd spawned as an EB. Battle Axe is evil!

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In general, I agree with you. Our enemies are greatly inconsistent. If it were just scaling from AV to EB with our difficulty settings, that wouldn't be a problem, but that's not what happens. Signature NPCs have a variety of "forms" with which they show up depending on the situation. Barakuda is a great example. In one mission she is your ally, and while she's strong, she ain't all that. When I teamed with her, she got killed. A few missions later, Barakuda cons as the same rank, is listed as the same rank, but because she's an enemy, she's far harder to kill and far, FAR more dangerous.

Consistency is important. That's a big part of presentation. If I see an Outcast beat a Hellion and a Warrior beat an Outcast, I want to be able to conclude that, yes, a Warrior would beat a Hellion without having to worry about how the game cheated in each fight. If the IDF are supposed to be Cole's elite troops and I'm able to beat them in one mission, then I shouldn't be getting killed by civilians in the next. If I'm able to stop an entire Malta invasion into ancient Rome by myself, I and seven of my friends shouldn't be threatened by a small Malta strike squad.

Content designers need to remember that it's never JUST a case of Player vs. Environment, it's very often also a case of Environment vs. Environment. As we play the game, we build up a mental ladder of enemies and develop a rough idea of who's stronger than who and where we stand on it. When designing content, how we stack against the current enemy shouldn't be the only narrative concern. Writers should also factor in how the current enemy stacks against our other enemies, and how previous content has shown us stack against these other enemies in the past. Writers should also factor in how we've stacked against the current enemy in previous encounters. If enemy difficulty is consistent between factions and between encounters, then surprises like these will be far more rare.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Heh, We're just used to being on the 'player character' side of that mechanic.

There are no Seers inside. The 4-6 Seers outside (depending on your league size) apply a zone wide debuff to everyone inside and outside the buildings. Watch below your health bar and you'll see their Pacification is still working indoors. Generally, I've seen leagues do better having everyone inside to expedite the defeat of Technicians because many people can't survive the assault outside with even 2 or 3 Seers standing... because, as already noted, high base damage on rocks.

Perhaps more enemies should have buffs/debuffs. It could be an interesting learning experience.

And, if rocks are higher damage, so what? Rocks hurt in real life too. Many a kid has earned a concussion from a rock fight. If you don't want to feel it, kill the Seers. Get rid of their debuff. Even the IDF weapons will hurt less, since I'm apparently wrong about indoor Seers.

It seems like a fair tradeoff: Faster but receiving more damage, or slower and receiving less.

Suspension of disbelief? Yes, it's a video game and, yes, it's a comic book genre. While many a concussion has been given by a rock, it's also true many a person has been killed by an explosive weapon. When suspension of disbelief is stretched too far and the story and setting become inconsistent that's a problem whether it's a game, a movie, a book, or what have you.

Here's the thing about damage in video games: it will never make sense, especially when hit points and health bars enter the equation. If you want more realistic, consistent damage, play Call of Duty, not City of Heroes.

The problem is not the mechanic, IMHO; it's the presentation.

I totally see where the Devs are going with this: The Seers, bolstered by Mother Mayhem's latest machinations (the ultimate version of which we see in the MoM trial, where she essentially conquers the world right out from under Old King Cole), are psychically causing our heroes to fail and falter in the face of the very people they are trying to defend saying, "we're fine! You are the invaders! Go away!" Who wouldn't have a crisis of conscience and doubt in that situation?

Most Villains wouldn't, but that's a different thread

I can totally see a scene like this working in movie, with sad music, and a lot of quick cuts of the crowd's angry faces, the sounds of Seers whispering, the hero crumbling to his knees in confusion and dejection...I can totally see it.

It's not coming off that way in game.

It could be fixed: perhaps with a cutscene, narrations as previously suggested, perhaps even a different mechanic.

My thought is that the least work would be to do a different animation of the crowd's ranged attacks.

This begs the question: is this a big enough deal to warrant the time, cost and effort to fix?