Level 53 and weaker than a Hellion
By
AkuTenshiiZero,
Posted on: 2011-12-16 06:40 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I can even come up with a zone/storyline to support that.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
We're Incarnates and now we have to fight an invasion by Malta troops of a small town somewhere in the country.
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Basically, you have one of these happen in Smalltown USA:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...mpoweringEvent
Government declares a state of emergency to get a handle on a buttload of people suddenly granted powers and Malta sweeps in to grab up the super noobs like preteen girls at the site of an overturned cargo truck of Justin Bieber CDs.
Until now, we've just seen super heroics in the city. This gives us the rural/suburban zone people have long asked for.
It could contrast nicely because Paragon and the Isles have the infrastructure and policy in place to accommodate supers. Instead of a place where super humans are common and routine, you've got a bunch of people suddenly coming to grips with new powers against the backdrop of dealing with the destruction caused by the event (and further destruction caused by their untrained powers).
You've got potential for super-looters, crazy cults that spring up, dealing with the fact the local town drunk and hot head can now lift a house and is out to settle old scores. Also mutated livestock and wildlife.
Plus, you could get really dark and have some people's empowerment turn out to only be temporary, so after a while you've got would-be superheroes suddenly falling out of the sky when their flight gives out.
Oh yeah, way too much potential.
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I think that due to my *very* old RP habits, being limited when playing an Immortal/God/Demi-God with "normals" is, well, normal for me.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
That's the same concept by different words. What I mean is that we're already awesome and we already do awesome things when we first get to level 50.
We shouldn't suddenly step down and be unable to do awesome things because we're suddenly not awesome. I'm well aware of how the game scales up, what I'm saying is that it shouldn't scale up nearly as sharply. As our characters increase in power, the game should treat us with a steadily increasing sense of respect. |
Bit of background: In the good old years (early to mid 80's), there was Dungeons and Dragons. Not "Advanced" Dungeons and Dragons, just "Dungeons and Dragons", and it had several sets for it
Basic (levels 1-3... it really was basic)
Expert (levels 4 to 14)
Companion (Levels 15 to 25)
Master (Levels 26 to 36...)
Immortals (no levels as such, although they were 36+)
Immortals, if they *played* with the "normals" were limited... they had to inhabit a mortal body, and also suffered the *mortal* limitations of said body. They could (if they chose to) exhibit their Immortal abilities, but this came at a price (hell, just being *known* to be Immortal made you a target). They could use their immortal powers to *imitate* normal powers, if they didnt know how to do it themselves, but to do something out of the ordinary... well, the claxons started running as it were.
How did we become Immortal?
Well, for my GM's at least, we had to replay the previous 30+ levels, but with more of a restriction on us (or even a Geas on us)... to *prove* that we were worthy of Immortal status...
*bring back to real world*
But of course, without knowing as to why our level shifts *right now* only work in the iTrials (background please on this, is it to keep the players "hidden" from a bigger badder gribbly until we are of a sufficient power level where we *are* able to fight with our full potential in our *own* dimension and not get chomped up into little bits in the 1st 2 seconds of seeing it?)
Hell, that is *exactly* my reasoning as to why in the "main" dimension, we are not fully able to shift up to "full power"... because we are being suppresed by the well right now, to keep *our* dimension safe whilst the superheroes prepare for "the coming storm"...
Oh god, did i just type up a whole lot of rubbish and it made semi sense to me?
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I'm late to the party, so I'll just leave this here.|
Originally Posted by TamakiRevolution
Fear the [rock].
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Fear the killer c[rock].
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Originally Posted by Scythus
lol wut? Aliens, mutants, costumed villains, and robots and featured in a comic and he isn't part of a "superhero universe?"
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War Mace is the best kind of Street Justice.
Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.
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TMNT isn't what I would call a superhero universe, no. Urban fantasy at best.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
lol wut? Aliens, mutants, costumed villains, and robots and featured in a comic and he isn't part of a "superhero universe?"
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Originally Posted by Scythus
Who the **** cares about CoX terms? You've been making the claim that superheroes don't use staves and I have been rattling off comic characters with staves.
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And the distinction between truly super-powered heroes and heroes with superior skills within the bounds of normal human limits is important if you want to make any sense out of scenarios where characters are fighting giant robots and cosmic entities like Galactus or Thanos. To say that every character in the DC or Marvel universe is a superhero is a semantic oversimplification that, while true on a superficial level, doesn't help address the essential problem of verisimilitude in situations like the iTrials (TPN and the rock-throwing citizens in particular) where we are expected to accept the absurd notion that normal (but skilled) dudes with sticks can (or should) do diddly squat against huge assault mechs with reinforced titanium armor plating and/or force fields.
NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller
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Oh Jeez nobody tell him! It'd shatter his little world!|
Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
TMNT isn't what I would call a superhero universe, no. Urban fantasy at best.
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| Neither Robin nor Batgirl routinely fight with sticks (they just punch and kick a lot). Nice try though. |
Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.
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Originally Posted by Premonitions
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The episodes with the Turtle Titan and Silver Sentry, and the episode that had the alternate dimension with the turtles in costumes with powers, were about taking Michelangelo out of the typical milieu the Turtles operated in and dropping him into one of comic book super heroes. That kind of proves the point that the Turtles aren't superheroes in the traditional sense.
If the turtles were superheroes, the "super hero" alternate dimension of them would have been exactly the same as their regular dimension, would it not? I mean, you can't put a super heroic twist on them if they're already superheroes, can you.
The differences that exist are what makes the Turtles one thing (you can to call it sci-fi, urban fantasy or whatever) and superhero fiction another. The episodes were to written to contrast what the Turtles were normally (if you want to call them Urban Fantasy or whatever) with more traditional super hero tropes.
In fact, if you go way back to the original animated series, you have Michelangelo obsessing over Bug Man, a hero he read about in comics, who turned out to be real. The other turtles dismissed his claims stating how outlandish the idea of superheros were and how they couldn't possibly really exist.
So, not even the turtles themselves think of themselves as superheroes.
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1: It's a common thing to not consider yourself something the world at large considers you to be, which brings me to another point|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
The episodes with the Turtle Titan and Silver Sentry, and the episode that had the alternate dimension with the turtles in costumes with powers, were about taking Michelangelo out of the typical milieu the Turtles operated in and dropping him into one of comic book super heroes. That kind of proves the point that the Turtles aren't superheroes in the traditional sense.
If the turtles were superheroes, the "super hero" alternate dimension of them would have been exactly the same as their regular dimension, would it not? I mean, you can't put a super heroic twist on them if they're already superheroes, can you. The differences that exist are what makes the Turtles one thing (you can to call it sci-fi, urban fantasy or whatever) and superhero fiction another. The episodes were to written to contrast what the Turtles were normally (if you want to call them Urban Fantasy or whatever) with more traditional super hero tropes. In fact, if you go way back to the original animated series, you have Michelangelo obsessing over Bug Man, a hero he read about in comics, who turned out to be real. The other turtles dismissed his claims stating how outlandish the idea of superheros were and how they couldn't possibly really exist. So, not even the turtles themselves think of themselves as superheroes. . |
2: The turtles exist in a universe with superheroes as a major factor, I.E. a super-hero universe. Even if werecognize the ninja turtles themselves as not being super-heroes, they clearly live in a super-hero universe.
3: Those episodes were, ACTUALLY about how the turtles, as themselves fit into the super-hero mold more than if they put on tights. The entire Turtle Titan bit was about how Michelangelo(and by extension his brothers) made better super-heroes as who they were than by attempting to present as more "Traditional" superheroes.
4: Your point fails to acknowledge the numerous other times that they teamed with the Superheroes of their world, to the point of them being major recurring characters.
5: Casey Mother Friggin Jones.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
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Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.
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Congratulations, you have just won the prize. And the prize is....|
Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
TMNT isn't what I would call a superhero universe, no. Urban fantasy at best.
Neither Robin nor Batgirl routinely fight with sticks (they just punch and kick a lot). Nice try though. And the distinction between truly super-powered heroes and heroes with superior skills within the bounds of normal human limits is important if you want to make any sense out of scenarios where characters are fighting giant robots and cosmic entities like Galactus or Thanos. To say that every character in the DC or Marvel universe is a superhero is a semantic oversimplification that, while true on a superficial level, doesn't help address the essential problem of verisimilitude in situations like the iTrials (TPN and the rock-throwing citizens in particular) where we are expected to accept the absurd notion that normal (but skilled) dudes with sticks can (or should) do diddly squat against huge assault mechs with reinforced titanium armor plating and/or force fields. |
Venture's favorite picture.
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Personally, I'm glad you're at least consistent in your view that the sticks and stones thing should go both ways; NPC or PC. And to an extent, I agree with what you're saying; in terms of simple logic.|
Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
TMNT isn't what I would call a superhero universe, no. Urban fantasy at best.
Neither Robin nor Batgirl routinely fight with sticks (they just punch and kick a lot). Nice try though. And the distinction between truly super-powered heroes and heroes with superior skills within the bounds of normal human limits is important if you want to make any sense out of scenarios where characters are fighting giant robots and cosmic entities like Galactus or Thanos. To say that every character in the DC or Marvel universe is a superhero is a semantic oversimplification that, while true on a superficial level, doesn't help address the essential problem of verisimilitude in situations like the iTrials (TPN and the rock-throwing citizens in particular) where we are expected to accept the absurd notion that normal (but skilled) dudes with sticks can (or should) do diddly squat against huge assault mechs with reinforced titanium armor plating and/or force fields. |
But the fact remains that the genre in general and CoX specifically is an accumulation of illogical pieces slapped together to create an illogical world and has been from day one. For anyone to be calling foul, at this point, is suspect at best (unless they've been complaining of the illogicality of it all since day one; then I would have to wonder why the heyhey they're still playing).
Selective suspension of disbelief.
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
Christ, let's just get the battalion here already so I can start feeling like a superhero again and not some whacked-up paramilitary clusterf**k. Of course, I'd love to be a supervillain, but no matter what happens in the end villains are basically just heroes with anger issues, I gave up my delusions of megalomania long ago.
That said, all that it would take to fix this is just giving the civvies a differant, non-damaging power and making the Telepaths stronger to compensate:
Rock: "This simple, ordinary rock is nothing compared to you and deals no damage, however the contempt in the eye of your attacker is enough to make you give pause, be it out of pity, shame, or perhaps even disgust." Like civvies in earlier Praetorian missions, instead of damage the word "Ineffective" floats over your head. Your character momentarily shields themselves with their arm and flinches, suffering a 1-second "Only Affect Self" debuff. This way you don't drop toggles or lose aggro or anything, you just stagger a moment and move on. Too much of this and you get into serious trouble, but if properly managed it's no issue.
The idea is to make this a challenge while not making the civilians stronger than the f**king Arachnos Patrons. Come on, this is easily the most immersion-breaking hack-job since...Well, since someone started to write villain missions.
The off-beat space pirate...Capt. Stormrider (50+3 Elec/Storm Science Corruptor)
The mysterious Djinn...Emerald Dervish (50+1 DB/DA Magic Stalker)
The psychotic inventor...Dollmaster (50 Bot/FF Tech Mastermind)
Virtue Forever.
Really? you mention Robin and Batgirl, but leave out Huntress?
SON YOU BETTA CORRECT YOSELF BEFORE YOU WRECK YOSELF
(I also would have expected Donatello, and yes, TMNT are comics superheroes.)
you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you <3
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I at no point made a claim that my list was complete. But in any case, he seems to have convinced himself that only guys like Superman or Thor are "true" superheroes and no amount of normals in spandex with sticks I post are going to persuade him otherwise.
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Originally Posted by Party_Kake
Really? you mention Robin and Batgirl, but leave out Huntress?
SON YOU BETTA CORRECT YOSELF BEFORE YOU WRECK YOSELF (I also would have expected Donatello, and yes, TMNT are comics superheroes.) |
He's just mad that Casey Jones would beat his incarnates. With his hockey stick.
Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.
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At the moment, Charlie Brown would beat his incarnates. With his rock. |
Originally Posted by Premonitions
He's just mad that Casey Jones would beat his incarnates. With his hockey stick.
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"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
the cost of hubris.
Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.
Let's not get too stuck on who uses a staff in comics. That's rather detracting from the point and personally I really hope the Devs look at the core of this issue.
Thelonious Monk
For those who are all tl/dr, IMHO the core issue is this:
- In the specific case of the TPN, the graphics don't make the ability of the Telepathists to enable the citizens to defeat Incarnate characters clear enough, and it feels to some like their Incarnate is being defeated in a way that breaks suspension of disbeleif and dispels drama.
- In the more general case, it is distasteful to some for their Incarnate to be defeated by something that is presented as a minor or non-threat regardless; they would like their Incarnates to face threats that appear to be and are presented as legitimate threats to demigods in the future.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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Well, Casey Casum would go all Sonata on his incarnates with Americas Top 40s.
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Originally Posted by Melancton
At the moment, Charlie Brown would beat his incarnates. With his rock.
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-------
Hew in drag baby
Batgirl.
Midnighter.