What abilities should demigods have?

With a solo Incarnate path having the distinct potential of making me care about godhood for my own characters, this brings up an old question that I don't think I ever really got an answer to. See, Incarnate powers kind of break AT boundaries and kind of give Incarnates access to a little (or a lot) of everything. A full Incarnate (as far as we go so far) can buff, debuff, nuke and summon pets, and that's a good range of abilities across nearly all ATs. In the beginning, I worried that this may be blurring AT boundaries, but I've since come to expect that... Gods and demigods kind of do a little bit of everything. Hence the question:

What abilities do you believe demigods in general should possess?

Now, mind you, when I say "abilities," I'm talking in the most abstract, general sense. For instance, "large-scale attacks" in general, not "Ion Judgement" in particular, or "the ability of fast travel" in general and less so "Zone Teleport" in particular.

In fact, I recall the very first time I actually felt like a cool person on the Ramiel TF was being told to go speak with the Statesman. Him being in IP would normally have meant a trip, but not this time. I left Ouroboros and travelled directly to Independence Port very close to his ship, I spoke to him, he collapsed, I opened an Ouroboros portal 10 feet from him and calmly walked back into Ourobors almost like one of those end bosses that keep popping in in more traditional RPGs. This told me that even something as simple as having access to your own mode of travel that's independent of the city's architecture or transport system in itself came with the prestige of a "higher being," and I liked it.

But that's just one instance of one ability that's not even tied to godhood, specifically. In fact, if you look at characters with "godlike" abilities in a lot of the more fantastic stories, so very often these characters are simply not specialists in any one field. They have the Artefact of This, the Power of That, the Spirit of That Guy, control over That Force and so on. Literal gods, born and raised in true divinity... That's one thing. But what we are as Incarnates is ordinary characters who have attained power that rivals that of the gods themselves, but not necessarily through literal divinity. As such, our powers end up being more esoteric and, in some ways, more generalist.

With that explanation out of the way, here's what I feel godlike beings and physical demigods need to have access to in terms of general abilities:

*Some kind of instant travel or fast travel that's independent of the world it's used in. A demigod has the ability to be where he needs to be ahead of all of his mortal enemies, which is one reason he's so dangerous.

*A mix of abilities of all kinds. While his mortal enemies have to specialise in a field very heavily to match his power, a demigod is not necessarily stronger than them, but is as strong in far more fields. That's why he's so dangerous without necessarily being cheating powerful.

*The ability of exception. A demigod is exempt from the limitations of his enemies and immune to the dangers inherent to who they are. For instance, a regular enemy can travel through time only a set distance, but a demigod can travel to any time period. A disease which turns ordinary people into zombies simply has no effect on a demigod because his immune system is that badass.

*Authority. A demigod is a very important person, and the story recognises this. Humble people venerate the demigod while insolent people fear him, and he is the central figure of stories he shows up in. Laws make exemptions for the demigod and seemingly impossible tasks are given a chance to succeed when he attempts them.

*The combat prowess of a "boss." A demigod is a dangerous person. Whenever he enters combat, he is the most dangerous thing on the battlefield, and the only hope his enemies have of defeating him is either trickery or overwhelming numbers. In a fight, the demigod is the "boss," with enemies having to pool their forces if they have a hope of victory.

*Minions. A demigod can oppose entire armies because he is never truly alone. When necessary, he can call on help specific to his powers. This could be literal allies drawn from a pool of existing people, or otherwise constructs created or controlled by the demigod's powers. Demigods who originally specialised in minions proper get to have more and stronger such.

That's all I can think of off-hand. Keep in mind that all of this is just abstract notions and may not always correspond to what's in the game, or indeed with what even COULD be in the game. That's OK, though, because what I'm looking for is a general idea of what a demigod should "resemble," which should only afterwards inform my view of what I will ask for out of demigods in City of Heroes in particular.

If you disagree with my assessments, that's fine. It's welcome, in fact. Let me know what powers do you feel a demigod should have in your preferred story, and let me know how they differ from mine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I have a few ideas to add. At least some that I find typical of Demigods.

Knowledge - A Demigod usually knows things, often things not meant for mortals. Maybe he can see the future, maybe he knows of unspeakable horrors, maybe he just knows something about how the world works, or knows all there is to know about military planning, but a Demigod knows stuff. They aren't always wise enough to act on it, but that comes with the job.

A weakness - It's a Demigod. Maybe it's a vulnerable heel, maybe it's stupidity, or perhaps he is just not as invincible as a full god, but for a Demigod to be interesting, he must still be possible to defeat.

A domain or specialty - A lot of Demigods are specialists in something. Hercules is the strongest there is, for instance. But it might also be light, darkness, fire, steel, or more abstract things like war, love, knowledge, magic, and so on. A Demigod has a lot of power, yes, but usually there is a focus or a theme. Something that the Incarnate system perhaps lacks by being so scattershot.

And finally: A challenge - Demigods are awesome because they can take on things mere mortals would stand no chance against. It might be monsters, it might be a logic problem, it might be an alien invasion, but whenever a Demigod exists, there's usually a counterpart to him to keep him busy. After all, it's no fun to read "Superman: Traffic Cop" for more than a single issue, is it? Actually, I probably would read that issue, sounds funny.

I had a couple of musings about what the next slots might entail for Incarnates, and for some strange reason I can't tell whether I heard this information before in reality or one of my strange deja-vu dreams.

Well, Alpha is the general enhancement ability that drives your powers one level beyond what was originally possible, and the always present incarnate shift at rare seals the deal in that respect. Judgement is a powerful click AoE, Destiny is a powerful Buff for you and your allies. Lore lets you summon figments, pets that you can control. And Interface gives all your attacks proc effects to make said attacks more dangerous.

All in all, the iPowers we can get now have increased ranged, buffing, summoning, attack-boosting and power-boosting abilities. Considering how a lot of powers do those very things. It may seem like there's little else to expand on right?

Well. For Genesis and Hybrid I can see these abilities touching upon the whole cross-AT empowerment angle the iPowers are already doing but powering them up head-on!

I'd consider Genesis to be a single tree based on your own character's archetype, you build up abilities that enhance the core element of your AT's inherent powers or the fixed powerset types of that AT. A Scrapper may get enhanced critical chances against Bosses, EBs and AVs instead of just limited to 10% for Lts+. A Defender could gain more scaling buffs when their team-mates take damage.

Hybrid could be the direct cross-AT iPower which you can choose different branches of and gain the inherent abilities of other ATs to empower your character. A defender could take the Blaster tree to gain the ability to use their early powers while mezzed, or the stacking damage buff when attacking with their secondary. A Tanker could gain the Scrapper's critical ability. A Brute could get a Defender's Vigilance to discount endurance cost when their allies fall.

After writing these things down I'd be pretty bummed out if they turned out completely different. But I think Incarnate (demi-gods) would have the power to ascend their core abilities (AT inherent) to new heights. And be able to inherit the core abilities from other heroes and villains because they aren't limited to one style anymore.

In Greek mythology...gods/demigods shapeshifted into different forms and had sex with mortal women. I say give me that ability and Ill have my way with all the NPCs I want...muhwahwahahaha.

(Im a sad, sad individual)

Keep in mind that when we talk Demigods here, we're still trying to keep within the realm of what our characters eventually become - that is to say, we start out as ordinary characters, but reach demigod level power though other means than direct divinity. Well, at least in most cases. This is less a case of "What if you were born as Hercules?" and more a case of "What if you were born a common kid from Jersey who somehow got godlike super strength and invulnerability?" In our cases, demigod status is less inherent to our characters and more just that - a status we come into via having enormous power, not always related to the divine. For instance, my godly power could be "really big guns."

That said, literally crossing the AT divide and picking powers from another AT, as well as reinforcing the strengths of your own AT might be a pretty good idea that I didn't think of. Say you're a master swordsman who can out-fence anyone and everyone. Well, your godlike power could be that you can now outfence armoured vehicles and cut through solid steel, as well as that you can now throw your swords a great distance and stab people from far away, or you can "cut the air" and send a shockwave of destruction towards your enemies.

That does kind of fall under my "mix of abilities" banner, but I still like it as a more grounded idea when it comes to our actual game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I must admit, when the powers for the Incarnate system were revealed, I was a little disappointed at how much they blurred the lines of the ATs. We can already do this with Inventions but the Incarnate system takes it even further. Perhaps this is deliberate.

For me, I would have liked to have seen skills that took ATs to their 'next level'. So for example, AVs are hard to debuff as they have high resistance to debuffs. So for an Incarnate Defender (or any other AT who have debuffing abilities) I would have liked to see something that could overcome even the resistances of mighty AVs. Basically something that took their abilities further. Like a power that added a few extra feet or splash damage to melee attacks so that melee ATs could truly wade through hordes of enemies like a demigod should.

Or perhaps powers that helped close some of the gaps in ATs, leaving them less vulnerable. Now we do already have those with the Destiny buffs and the Alpha slot to some degree, so in some ways, job done. But I was thinking more along those subtle lines rather than big, flashy powers.

Of course, allowing those things would mean creating new challenges for players but then that's always going to be the problem with scaling power levels. The Devs might not have added another 10 levels to the game but already we see us fighting +6 level shifted foes so I consider that a bit of an illusion.

I will say I'm not enamoured with the Incarnate system but it's more to do with the crappy storyline, confusing salvage and iTrial heavy way of gaining the abilities rather than the powers themselves. Hence why I'm holding out on the revamped Dark Astoria before deciding whether to ignore the system completely.

It's all about scale. Demigods go big!

Ah, I have another item to add I just remembered. A demigod should have:

*Immunity from environmental limitations. A regular person diving underwater needs an air tank. A demigod can simply breathe underwater or, better yet, does not need to breath at all. A normal person jumping off a tall building would either die or suffer serious injury. A demigod is immune to falling damage. A normal person trapped in a fire burns. A demigod is immune to regular fire. A person trapped in a remote location would starve. A demigod doesn't need to eat, or otherwise has an infinite supply of nourishment in some way.

Yeah, I definitely like this one

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

hubris

The power to rain some doom down upon the doomed heads of our doomed enemies. That's what Judgement is for.

We also need the power to smite someone who has ticked us off. I am hoping we get a really nasty single-target attack in a future slot.

They should have the kind of abilities needed to fight other demigods

Intangibility. Lots of it.

Well, I remember in the old D&D books demigods and gods had a slew of abilities:

They went first in combat.
They had massive travel speeds.
They could control weather (not so relevant here).
They could summon huge allies (think the most elevated "angels").
They had precognitive abiltiies so they gained an Initiative bonus, if they didn't just precede you in combat.
They had a slew of combat buffs.
They had a variety of "spell-like abilities" on top of all that (Magic Missile X times per day, Dispel Magic X times per day, etc. etc).
They could (in some cases) grant wishes.


In other words, they were pretty OP.

Basically, demigods should have abilities that make them numerically better than normal players of the game but not so much that they are undefeatable.