More times than not, whenever threads like this start bringing out numbers, someone always shows up to dismiss the discussion with a sweeping "it should be about how much you enjoy it" comment. Obviously some people enjoy the numbers behind the powersets, and their enjoyment shouldn't be dismissed because someone else is satisfied with the concept or playstable.
Every set is enjoyed by someone. No one is saying that only the best sets are fun. TA will always have a following just for being an archery set or a debuff/control set or a toggle-less set. But TA is bottom of the barrel for debuff values and for many players that is frustrating.
Those players aren't asking for the concept or playstyle to change. They just want it to appeal more to what they find enjoyable, and they use numbers and values to make their appeals for change.
If you enjoy the set as is, then that's fine. I also enjoy playing the set. My TA/A is my main and my favorite character to log on to and bring on TFs and Trials. But I also look at the numbers and see how poor most of the debuff values compare to nearly every other set and it bothers me enough to want to see something change.
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And those other sets should have weaker debuff value ?|
Originally Posted by CrazyJerseyan
With players always asking for more/different sets to play, Im glad there is more than just Radiation, Cold Dom and Dark to choose from.
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Just because.... ?
Main & easier buff to TA is boosting -res on Acid/disruption.
Like noze in ther face, it's obvious.
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I didnt say that and you can put words in my mouth to bolster your side of the issue, but yeah, after almost 5 pages of discussing what sets are better...we've come to the conclusion that not all sets are equal. Wow, amazing stuff..you truly have an eye for details. A buff would be nice, but Ive never had any problems debuffing with my Fire/TA corr (and Im a solo player unless on TFs/SFs etc), even though I also enjoy playing my Ice/Rad troller, Energy/Cold corr and my Dark/Rad Defender.|
Originally Posted by Mc Carbonara
And those other sets should have weaker debuff value ?
Just because.... ? |
My Fire blaster does more damage than my other blasters since the secondary is more fire damage, but does that mean my Energy blaster needs its damage boosted? Sure, buffs never hurt and Im in favor of a TA buff when it happens. My question for you is...just because TA has weaker debuff values, does that mean it doesnt get the job done? Ive never had a problem debuffing with it just like Ive never had a problem blasting with anything outside of fire.
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
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I agree and feel the same way...but wanting to see something get done and watching people go on for pages about whats better are two different things.|
Originally Posted by Trickshooter
But I also look at the numbers and see how poor most of the debuff values compare to nearly every other set and it bothers me enough to want to see something change.
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But please continue for another five pages in hopes that the other forumites will be able to help incorporate the TA changes that you feel are needed.
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
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That's an unfair question to ask. Imagine they introduced a blast set that did a single point of damage with every attack. Does it get the job done? Yes, because the set does damage and you'd eventually be able to defeat enemies. Anyone using it would have no problem causing damage, but it would still not be competitive with the other sets, and people would push for buffs.|
Originally Posted by CrazyJerseyan
I didnt say that and you can put words in my mouth to bolster your side of the issue, but yeah...after almost 5 pages of discussing what sets are better, not all sets are equal. Wow, amazing stuff..you truly have an eye for details. A buff would be nice, but Ive never had any problems debuffing with my Fire/TA corr (and Im a solo player unless on TFs/SFs etc), even though I also enjoy playing my Ice/Rad troller, Energy/Cold corr and my Dark/Rad Defender.
My Fire blaster does more damage than my other blasters since the secondary is more fire damage, but does that mean my Energy blaster needs its damage boosted? Sure, buffs never hurt and Im in favor of a TA buff when it happens. My question for you is...just because TA has weaker debuff values, does that mean it doesnt get the job done? Ive never had a problem debuffing with it just like Ive never had a problem blasting with anything outside of fire. |
Also, your example doesn't exactly fit. No, other blast sets don't do as much damage as Fire, but Fire doesn't have access to as many controls, debuffs and bonuses as other sets. There is a trade-off to maintain some balance.
Balance among similar sets is what the Devs strive for, and TA is far from being competitive with the other buff/debuff sets.
TA "gets the job done" in the sense that it's debuffs and controls function (more or less bug-free). But it doesn't do it any better, and is in fact worse in most regards, than any other set.
Myself, and many others, would just like TA to be more than "functional".
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*shrug* Threads like these are always going to pop up until something's done (I mean, they've been showing up for 7 years now).|
Originally Posted by CrazyJerseyan
I agree and feel the same way...but wanting to see something get done and watching people go on for pages about whats better are two different things.
But please continue for another five pages in hopes that the other forumites will be able to help incorporate the TA changes that you feel are needed. |
I like TA a lot, but I get annoyed when I try to show why the set could use some improvement and it gets dismissed, especially when the attitude I get is akin to the "don't call me a healer graihoahsdgoahslkh!!!" hate (not talking about you here, btw). As if I just don't understand what makes the set so great and if I did, I'd see why I'm so wrong.
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I didnt post with any intention of dismissing your opinion, to overlook the #s or with any snark involved.|
Originally Posted by Trickshooter
*shrug* Threads like these are always going to pop up until something's done (I mean, they've been showing up for 7 years now).
I like TA a lot, but I get annoyed when I try to show why the set could use some improvement and it gets dismissed, especially when the attitude I get is akin to the "don't call me a healer graihoahsdgoahslkh!!!" hate (not talking about you here, btw). As if I just don't understand what makes the set so great and if I did, I'd see why I'm so wrong. |
I hope you get what you're looking for in reference to whatever buffs you feel TA needs.
In reference to this..."That's an unfair question to ask."
It seems fair to me when bounced off of:
Originally Posted by Mc Carbonara
And those other sets should have weaker debuff value ?
Just because.... ?
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
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The highlighted section of Trickshooter's post is the important one to consider.|
Originally Posted by Trickshooter
That's an unfair question to ask. Imagine they introduced a blast set that did a single point of damage with every attack. Does it get the job done? Yes, because the set does damage and you'd eventually be able to defeat enemies. Anyone using it would have no problem causing damage, but it would still not be competitive with the other sets, and people would push for buffs.
Also, your example doesn't exactly fit. No, other blast sets don't do as much damage as Fire, but Fire doesn't have access to as many controls, debuffs and bonuses as other sets. There is a trade-off to maintain some balance. Balance among similar sets is what the Devs strive for, and TA is far from being competitive with the other buff/debuff sets. TA "gets the job done" in the sense that it's debuffs and controls function (more or less bug-free). But it doesn't do it any better, and is in fact worse in most regards, than any other set. Myself, and many others, would just like TA to be more than "functional". |
CoX is a game for us, but it is a business for the owners, and the way they feed themselves and their families for the developers.
It is in all their best interests to buff under performing sets and modify underutilized sets especially now that the game has gone f2p.
Under performing and underutilized sets mean that development time (which is expensive) is not generating the revenue that the company had planned. (In other words they wasted development time.)
For those of us here this is a game of Alts. That means the more sets that are fun (and that means different things for all of us. Some of us think performance is fun, for some its all about the look and feel of the animations, for some is how the secondary effects or "gimmick" of the power set works [or fails to work], for some it's even "how does this power make my character look while I'm roleplaying?") means the more time we will play and pay.
Having more power sets that are at least average in most areas, and really shine in 1, means that we have more options for what we consider fun and will spend more time/$$$ on their product.
From the f2p aspect having a player download, log in, and create their first character (most likely in the image of their favorite comic book or RPG character) and have it fail utterly to live up to any of their expectations means that they can permanently lose that person as a player and kiss any hope of present or future revenue goodbye.
The devs need to put their best foot forward in as many areas as possible for these reasons.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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I can't even count the number of times I've had this experience over that last 7 years only on the Defender and Kheldian forums alone. I remember when anyone who said Kheldians were less than perfect prior to their overhaul got crucified, even though they were clearly underperforming and the least played AT in the game. Same thing happens all the time with FF, Sonic, and TA threads in the defender forums.
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Originally Posted by Trickshooter
I like TA a lot, but I get annoyed when I try to show why the set could use some improvement and it gets dismissed, especially when the attitude I get is akin to the "don't call me a healer graihoahsdgoahslkh!!!" hate (not talking about you here, btw). As if I just don't understand what makes the set so great and if I did, I'd see why I'm so wrong.
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Heh yeah, it just shows that they're aware of it. You usually get some response like 'but repulsion field is useful in that specific moment in the whatever-TF'.|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
I can't even count the number of times I've had this experience over that last 7 years only on the Defender and Kheldian forums alone. I remember when anyone who said Kheldians were less than perfect prior to their overhaul got crucified, even though they were clearly underperforming and the least played AT in the game. Same thing happens all the time with FF, Sonic, and TA threads in the defender forums.
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Now if you try to argue Fire/Dark corrs are weak you'll get responses like 'ok lulz that's like ur opinion' or 'well mine melts mobs' without all the justifications and 'self-defense' answers.
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There is underperformance despite playing by design and underperformance from playing without any clue about design.|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
I can't even count the number of times I've had this experience over that last 7 years only on the Defender and Kheldian forums alone. I remember when anyone who said Kheldians were less than perfect prior to their overhaul got crucified, even though they were clearly underperforming and the least played AT in the game. Same thing happens all the time with FF, Sonic, and TA threads in the defender forums.
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Don't get me wrong I could be "doing it wrong" when it comes to Sonic. I am one of those who are pro change with it, but I'll read posts where people show through their thoughts that they're not getting the set or what they should from the set even as much as I am.
With TA there are tweaks I could get behind but I have seen posts of people showing perhaps that all that doesn't have to be failed with TA as support is failed. People do not play in the best way or whatever and it's the set that's wrong. I see this on SWTOR, people saying Sentinels can't do something because they can't and the Devs have got it wrong, and someone comes along and post a Youtube video of them doing exactly what was said can't be done with a Sentinel. I dare say something is wrong in early stages anyway.
Forcefield is so maligned people skip half the set like its useless, when it's not and there maybe circumstances where some of that skipped part could of been an asset but people do not have it to find out. The one thing I can say with Forcefield is it is bumped by power build up much like the survivability of SR can be by Aid Self. A Dev touching Aid Self or Power Build up is doubtful because of the effects on other sets/ATs.
I don't like to see pages of people turning TA into something that has healing arrow. No one is doing that thank god, but again I'd draw the line at seeing it turned into another set too. I actually don't agree with taking one power of one set and comparing it to another power of another set. I am more for how the whole set works.
Providing ingame experiences of where TA didn't measure up is best. I've said in the past that by the time I have got all my debuffs down in one group there is nothing to attack with a secondary attack, secondary attacks weren't something I was using in a team and I also said how my TA was so easily staminaless due to long cast times, as it can recover end over the process of doing something so well. Lo and behold shortly after cast times reduce making me able to use the secondary also making Fitness pool just as desireable for TA as other sets. That was in the days of the european forums but we all doubt the Devs read anything there but I think ingame experiences can give balance reasons or allow people to discuss the solution to the problem. A Dev may go "hang on they're playing it right but.." or we may go, "well there is an obvious balance issue what would solve it?" without turning it into Dark Miasma.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Sorry to be a bit off topic of the OP, |
Originally Posted by Kioshi
. Good times tho, I miss the variety of builds in the old pvp, you saw toons of all kinds, even Stone Tankers, energy blasters, at least in casual zone they could have fun (yet the 'friendly i13 pvp' made 80% of the builds useless like my dom who relied on slows or the bunch of defensive based toons like all the Ice/EM tankers I used to see).
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I remember the old PvP, just before I took a vacation from CoX. I know exactly what you mean by a "variety of builds." I used to actually run my Peacebringer through Sirens call, actively, and it was a blast! I really wish PvP was better for CoX because it would really open a new world to me.
Tricking and clobbering the NPCs gets boring over time.
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I would like to add underperformance by data-mining to that. If majority of the people that play the set skip all the same powers consistently, then there is probably something that needs to be fixed about the set.|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
There is underperformance despite playing by design and underperformance from playing without any clue about design.
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| Don't get me wrong I could be "doing it wrong" when it comes to Sonic. I am one of those who are pro change with it, but I'll read posts where people show through their thoughts that they're not getting the set or what they should from the set even as much as I am. |
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| With TA there are tweaks I could get behind but I have seen posts of people showing perhaps that all that doesn't have to be failed with TA as support is failed. People do not play in the best way or whatever and it's the set that's wrong. I see this on SWTOR, people saying Sentinels can't do something because they can't and the Devs have got it wrong, and someone comes along and post a Youtube video of them doing exactly what was said can't be done with a Sentinel. I dare say something is wrong in early stages anyway. |
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| Forcefield is so maligned people skip half the set like its useless, when it's not and there maybe circumstances where some of that skipped part could of been an asset but people do not have it to find out. The one thing I can say with Forcefield is it is bumped by power build up much like the survivability of SR can be by Aid Self. A Dev touching Aid Self or Power Build up is doubtful because of the effects on other sets/ATs. |
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| I don't like to see pages of people turning TA into something that has healing arrow. No one is doing that thank god, but again I'd draw the line at seeing it turned into another set too. I actually don't agree with taking one power of one set and comparing it to another power of another set. I am more for how the whole set works. |
Not saying make disruption arrow just like tar patch, we're saying make the power equivalent in worth both numerically and in the number of effects. Why does Tar patch do 10% more -res, slow, and come earlier than Disruption arrow which only has -res? Couldn't you give something like -Def or -Tohit to justify the difference?
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I don't believe that there is a power that the majority are skipping consistantly. There is what you might skip because you don't see the usefulness but there is no reassurance that the majority are skipping it too.|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
I would like to add underperformance by data-mining to that. If majority of the people that play the set skip all the same powers consistently, then there is probably something that needs to be fixed about the set.
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
It's the same problem FF has, powers like Sonic Repulsion are so situational, annoying, and counter-productive that it feels like a major slap in the face when you consider there are only 9 powers to pick from. Having multiple powers like this or redundant powers (EX: clarity) devalues the set greatly in most people's eyes. This is a game of alts as well, the playerbase in general isn't unaware of the performance of other support sets, which widens the gap even more.
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
I think people in general on the internet have very poor reading comprehension. What one might write as, "TA isn't performing as well as Rad," somehow gets read as, "TA isn't functional and useless." Couple this with how some people will actively seek out sets they know are weak to outperform on them, then later actively defend the set is fine when they have convinced themselves it is by either grossly exceeding what an average player can do or deluding themselves into thinking it is.
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
The thing I find most underperform about FF is that complete lack of offensive capability in the slightest. Which is fine if we were still back at the game release, but they've designed every other support set to at least minimal amount of offensive effects. Couple it with the often avoided powers, the set looks really out of date in this environment.
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I do think the days of "Healer" and TA thread crossovers is behind us. Problem though is every individual TA power underperforms compared to what is average for other support sets, and it takes twice as many TA powers to get the same effect of one power does in other sets. With only 9 powers to pick from that is a very heavy flaw that can't be ignored, and TA really doesn't have enough synergy amongst it's powers to overcome this.
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Not saying make disruption arrow just like tar patch, we're saying make the power equivalent in worth both numerically and in the number of effects. Why does Tar patch do 10% more -res, slow, and come earlier than Disruption arrow which only has -res? Couldn't you give something like -Def or -Tohit to justify the difference?
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In 3,3s:
I put out -30% res with Tar patch and I otomh can't add any more res debuff procs to anything within the primary not that it should matter.
With TA I put out -40% res and can stack another -40% progressively later and then have 2 powers within the set that can have a res debuff proc not that it matters.
I am not saying all is equal, other effects count, the grand total of what each set can do versus an AV and its spawn or just a normal spawn matters, one set may win versus an AV and its spawn whereas another may be better versus a normal spawn.
In PVE there are different outcomes one set maybe better versus ambushers, one set maybe better at preventing a nearby group doing a perception check on a team that really doesn't know when to pull or where to stop.
Because I believe in playing around different defenders differently my main worry is somebody trying to make it easy for me to play around different defenders the same way.
Cast times, debuffs over time, effect per end, aoe size, anchor versus no anchor taking into account AI, xp/time, potential, subject, player behaviour. There is more than just doing power to power but I don't disbelieve that there can't be a buff of some kind, dropping that 15s of -end recovery after EMP would be a buff in my mind. Thats 15s of not losing endurance. It probably effects non defenders more though.
The testers must test and compare defenders. It can't be that hard to sit there with a stop clock as well as compare team survivability potential especially when they should know how to go about things and exactly whats meant to happen.
I play all defender sets and look for surviving by different means with them, I'll admit thats my main concern along with fun.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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You keep implying that someone in this thread is suggesting overhauling TA completely as an experience, where as I've seen nothing but suggestions for buffs via numbers or combining like powers like Flash Arrow and PGA into a single power. Even if one power was added because of that, it's not going to change how the set works, only improve how it works. The set will always be an anchor-less, toggle-less, heal-less, and buff-less ranged debuff set. That alone already sets it apart from every other support set in the game.
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Originally Posted by New Dawn
I play all defender sets and look for surviving by different means with them, I'll admit thats my main concern along with fun.
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Very nicely reasoned post. For what its worth, I think TA could use buffs and many people have suggested useful ones but it is nowhere near as underperforming as people seem to want it to be. I think that it does underperform early game somewhat significantly though.|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
I don't believe that there is a power that the majority are skipping consistantly. There is what you might skip because you don't see the usefulness but there is no reassurance that the majority are skipping it too.
Whatever is annoying (end consumption) you can build to mitigate it, if its counterproductive on someone else then don't use it on them, if its situational on one AT you then have to check how situational it will be on another AT. The Devs don't always tailor make things for each AT. Sonic Repulsion on a ranged pet can be of value and now the set is ported to Masterminds, I would guess the Devs will wait and see if its popular among Masterminds. If so then I'd guess it will stay. Rads don't always get to perform as well as TAs at times, the anchor is the first thing to get defeated. It's not the fault of the Devs when people cause underperformance. The forum is not an only source of peoples views either someone ingame, could decide that TA is useless. People actively seek out sets that are "said" to be weak. We will all build differently, play differently, team with different people and I know you could come down to comparing total debuffs versus total debuffs of other sets but then again other sets may not have Oil Slick or EMP Arrow. Other sets are reliant on an anchor etc, etc. In theory TA to the Devs may not need to be underperforming at all but in reality, players of TA may not be debuffing in good order or hard controlling key targets in good time. Each defender set offers something different and overall can't quite be compared directly. The way I expect to tank for a TA versus something may not be the same way I can expect to tank that same thing for another defender and I think it's important to have the best dynamic for whatever defender is in play. For many other defender sets there is the reactionary element, you can't just buff and run as you could with a forcefielder. Forcefielder is almost a fire and forget set with most people probably and sensibly so, taking the power build up. Ofc there are alot of powers skipped that could be used in a reactive light but more likely those ones are a bit more ranger friendly. I find after buffing people I have a few minutes of not really concerning myself with them. I can spend more time lost in my attack chains. Not so on another defender where I am proactively doing more to mitigate damage spawn to spawn and then maybe get an attack or two out. I do think the days of "Healer" and TA thread crossovers is behind us. Problem though is every individual TA power underperforms compared to what is average for other support sets, and it takes twice as many TA powers to get the same effect of one power does in other sets. With only 9 powers to pick from that is a very heavy flaw that can't be ignored, and TA really doesn't have enough synergy amongst it's powers to overcome this. What I have done is pull up my TA/A build and pull up my Dark/Dark build. In 3,3s: I put out -30% res with Tar patch and I otomh can't add any more res debuff procs to anything within the primary not that it should matter. With TA I put out -40% res and can stack another -40% progressively later and then have 2 powers within the set that can have a res debuff proc not that it matters. I am not saying all is equal, other effects count, the grand total of what each set can do versus an AV and its spawn or just a normal spawn matters, one set may win versus an AV and its spawn whereas another may be better versus a normal spawn. In PVE there are different outcomes one set maybe better versus ambushers, one set maybe better at preventing a nearby group doing a perception check on a team that really doesn't know when to pull or where to stop. Because I believe in playing around different defenders differently my main worry is somebody trying to make it easy for me to play around different defenders the same way. Cast times, debuffs over time, effect per end, aoe size, anchor versus no anchor taking into account AI, xp/time, potential, subject, player behaviour. There is more than just doing power to power but I don't disbelieve that there can't be a buff of some kind, dropping that 15s of -end recovery after EMP would be a buff in my mind. Thats 15s of not losing endurance. It probably effects non defenders more though. The testers must test and compare defenders. It can't be that hard to sit there with a stop clock as well as compare team survivability potential especially when they should know how to go about things and exactly whats meant to happen. I play all defender sets and look for surviving by different means with them, I'll admit thats my main concern along with fun. |
I am glad that Trickshooter brought up the discrepancies between defender and corruptor versions of -res debuffs for TA as compared with dark, since those seem relevant as well.
"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
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Actually no and I don't believe that there is evidence of that. I do over exaggerate in saying something like I wouldn't want to see TA turned into Dark Miasma. It's a worst case thing.
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
You keep implying that someone in this thread is suggesting overhauling TA completely as an experience
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I am just saying that the pros and cons of an entire set should be looked at. I could go on excel and work out the maximum level of damage mitigation each of my Defenders put out, but then I would think to myself, "well whats the most sensible way of playing with them?". Tankers can aid survivability but if you are a simple blaster up a Tankers butt then you are bound to get aoe'd sometime. Defenders don't have to be there allowing anyone to take up any possible position. Some of my defenders would be silly thinking they could just stand anywhere. Then defenders don't have to allow you to do anything at any time. So there is a way to team with them and a way not to. Taking how to team with them into account, buffs that aren't good enough for us to do what we like might be overkill when we play around the set properly.|
Originally Posted by _Ail_
Very nicely reasoned post. For what its worth, I think TA could use buffs and many people have suggested useful ones but it is nowhere near as underperforming as people seem to want it to be. I think that it does underperform early game somewhat significantly though.
I am glad that Trickshooter brought up the discrepancies between defender and corruptor versions of -res debuffs for TA as compared with dark, since those seem relevant as well. |
Each defender will have a niche, an empath can only res one person at a time where as Miasma can do the whole team but needs a target to do so. Balancing the resses directly just can't be done although most people might prefer if Empathy had something that ressed the whole team without a target.
I am glad you mentioned lower levels because I agree TA comes home late nearer OS.
Conceptually:
Glue Arrow lowers DPS but being a slow it can also have an effect on acceleration.
Force (effect is Damage) = Mass*Acceleration
So why can't it through affecting acceleration cause -Dam? There could be -Dam for the first few secs, combined with the -rechg, then perhaps just be -rechg for the remainder (perhaps entangling could too).
Poison Gas Arrow does -Dam and a sleep, but why don't it look like a poison? At the end of its duration there could be some puking going on for a few secs. So even though some mobs got woken they're having to chunder when or as the effect wears off. Last part of the duration comes a hold.
That's conceptual to me and some buffing without comparing anything. It would perhaps help a bit in the lower levels and be a bit further away from seeming just functional. Those powers would also be different to everything else otomh. I don't throw figures because thats the Devs job.
But I'd suspect the testing would of said the set was alright to begin with.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I've been reading some of what turbo ski and new dawn are saying.
I think a big issue with this game is the powers do not lend themselves to concepts. If a player decides to run with a concept then they better accept the compromise or they will have to create the concept from the build instead.
This game does not lend well if someone does not want to min and max. As I mentioned earlier on in this thread my TA Archer can solo 4/8, as some other mentioned as well. So what is the difference between my TA and someone else ? It is that I created the build to leverage some of the game mechanics and then created a story about the build. Where as someone else will make a TA / AR around a concept and then wonder why its not working right. A perfect example of this is people making comments and defending builds like Poison Beam rifle and Force Field Beam rifle and then admitting how crappy the build actually is in another thread. Or if not crappy as that might be a bad choice, but not up to par as they expected. Why ? Because they really didn't understand game mechanics or how a set works. They have these ideas but just do not know how to interpret the numbers. I know that because I was one of those players for many, many years.
Powers are going to suck if you pick up something like Oil Slick but do create the build to have recharge in it. Of course it sucks when your Oil Slick is only up every 2 minutes. But when its up close to every 30 seconds that now becomes a really cool power to have.
Fortunately on a full team one or two players weaknesses are usually not noticed. But as the team gets smaller and you are relied up a bit more it becomes more noticeable.
End result I think this thread has a bit of both, players honestly lacking some understanding and some powers that could use some tweaking.
I do agree that Oil Slick should have a slightly quicker recharge as should EMP arrow and poison arrow should just be like poison trap.
Personally I don't use EMP arrow unless I'm on a team or I happen to be farming and I fell into a bunch of blue inspirations to hold me through the no recharge issue.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
I think the set could stand to be buffed a little bit, but I'm not deep enough into the numbers to back that up.
My main issue with the set is wishing that all of the powers were enemy targeted. I dislike location targeted powers in general, but in Trick Arrow they really interrupt my steady flow of thwipping. I skip the sonic arrow because I don't find it useful enough to make me want to use it as a location targeted ability. OSA's usefulness overrides my annoyance with its use.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
My main issue with the set is wishing that all of the powers were enemy targeted. I dislike location targeted powers in general, but in Trick Arrow they really interrupt my steady flow of thwipping. I skip the sonic arrow because I don't find it useful enough to make me want to use it as a location targeted ability. OSA's usefulness overrides my annoyance with its use.
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My preferred input device for CoH is a gamepad. Location based powers are basically a no-go for that because of the very (over) protected nature of left click. But I love TA/A enough to play it with a mouse. Low level you can get by without disruption arrow and rain of arrows, oil slick is awesome enough to make me use mouse+gamepad to fire it off, mid-levels, not so much.
Even if they don't change the powers to be enemy targeted I would love for /macro to get some ability to target location powers at the location of what you have targeted or at your feet. Caltrops sticks out in Devices and Traps because everything else is dropped at your feet. Shield Charge is best used when you're already surrounded. Adding that to macros would still leave the functionality to set things up ahead of time.
-Per, controller grade mega stun, nothing that generates green numbers, oh how I do love that set.
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I can map the mouse and mouse buttons to my gamepad. I just don't find the mechanics of their use to be very convenient, whether I'm playing with mouse & keyboard or gamepad.
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Originally Posted by Ogi
My preferred input device for CoH is a gamepad. Location based powers are basically a no-go for that because of the very (over) protected nature of left click. But I love TA/A enough to play it with a mouse. Low level you can get by without disruption arrow and rain of arrows, oil slick is awesome enough to make me use mouse+gamepad to fire it off, mid-levels, not so much.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
I'm currently playing on a mac and so far haven't found any 3rd party mapping programs that don't cause more trouble than they solve for the mouse to gamepad mapping though I haven't looked in awhile.
I'd love for the location targeting to go away but that'd probably be too big a change for the cottage rule. Just dropping your -res powers means going from enemy targeted to location targeted and really does break the otherwise nice flow of the archery sets. Oil slick is awesome enough to override its clunkiness of target location, target slick, fire blazing arrow, go back to enemy.
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I'm lucky enough to have a Saitek gamepad from back before they got absorbed by MadCatz and stopped making gamepads. Saitek has/had their own mapping software so I'm not saddled with some jury-rigged third party Joy2Key-type setup.
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Originally Posted by Ogi
I'm currently playing on a mac and so far haven't found any 3rd party mapping programs that don't cause more trouble than they solve for the mouse to gamepad mapping though I haven't looked in awhile.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
More times than not, these threads turn into, "x is better than z and here are the #s" when it should be about, "I enjoy the variety this game gives us and the freedom to do x, y, z".
Rad, Dark etc beating out TA is like saying Superman could beat Green Arrow or Aquaman. Id get tired of reading comics if they were all about different versions of Superman because the #s say hes stronger, faster and tougher. There are always going to be people that prefer TA for whatever their reasoning and feel strongly about it...just like there are always going to people that argue Batman could take out Superman.
With players always asking for more/different sets to play, Im glad there is more than just Radiation, Cold Dom and Dark to choose from.
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"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-