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No problem. Just be warned, they really suck |
Originally Posted by Laevateinn
OK, I took a look, the damage was unexpectedly good and the build looks promising. I still have concerns over the lack of massive layered defences that I'm used to (def/res/control/debuff/heal). But this looks like a powerset worth checking out. Thanks for sharing.
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levelling up (although not as much as back in '05.) It is one of those combinations like permadoms that really benefits from end-game IO slotting. This is as opposed to something like traps that is fairly even keel and doesn't really get much of a quantum leap (IMO--I am sure others differ) from endgame slotting but is just more of the same, only better.
"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
I'll just add that leveling up TA on a troller secondary is really fun. It may not be the biggest powerhouse but I'm having a blast with it on my Earth/TA troller.
Ail, why didn't you pick Flash Arrow? I think otomh it can be about -10% tohit which to me is pretty damn nice. Better than weave, better than maneuvers, possibly put together depending on your own build, really just another click.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I've had it in other builds and can certainly understand someone getting it. Basically, unlike maneuvers or weave which don't need any action at all to work, it is a click as you said (and so another action.) A valid criticism against TA is that sometime you are going to want to attack, and you have to cut the debuff cycle short at some point. But yes, the build could be modified to get it.|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
Ail, why didn't you pick Flash Arrow? I think otomh it can be about -10% tohit which to me is pretty damn nice. Better than weave, better than maneuvers, possibly put together depending on your own build, really just another click.
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Plus of course, maneuvers and weave are contributing +12.5% global recharge each and I think the most you could manage with flash was +6.25%.
"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
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That's more like Flash unslotted. Least with Flash it effectively gives everyone something greater than weave, you don't have to softcap yourself and it could stack with manuevers as it actually does on mine. I effectively give people 15% defense. |
Originally Posted by _Ail_
Plus of course, maneuvers and weave are contributing +12.5% global recharge each and I think the most you could manage with flash was +6.25%.
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I know its one more click, what I do in teams is act as a Scouting Defender, in that I would knowing that all debuffs are anchor free and worryless, shoot ahead and Flash Arrow the next grp just before I would expect a Tanker to enter it. As a Tanker myself, I like to get to the next grp and ready it early, last few mobs to mop up doesn't mean people have to be babysat with, so as a TA I tend to have a rough idea of when to shoot to the next lot.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I like how a few key powers in TA are auto hit and flash arrow even has an unresitable debuff. My only real wishes for the set are to add some small -regen to acid arrow and to make more of the TA debuffs unresistable, maybe poison gas and acid.
PRTECTR4EVR
My criticism of TA had always been that for a set that is all debuff, no buff, the debuffs aren't good enough to warrant the limitation.
The -Recharge in Glue Arrow, for example, is way lower than what would be expected from another set. Why?
Why is Time Manipulation, not Trick Arrow, the set with the ability to do a potential Mag 4 hold by combining powers?
Why is TA's -Regen buried in a power with a 5 minute recharge?
Why does it take 4 or 5 arrows, and all that associated cast time, to debuff enemies, and still end up with less overall debuff than sets that are mixed buff/debuff?
TA just needs something more. It's one sort-of advantage is being able to AoE mobs to death with direct damage, but it isn't even particularly good at that.
Just providing a better source of -Regen and fixing the -Recharge in Glue Arrow so that it was standard, even if not outstanding, would be a decent first step.
I've also long wanted the ability for TA to be able to shoot its arrows without drawing aggro if they are shot at enemies who are affected by Flash Arrow. IMO that would help tremendously with TA's animation time problem. Option 2 would be the ability to fire arrows with multiple payloads at once.
I'm not sure whether TA is the worst off of the various buff/debuff sets, having to vy with Force Field, Sonic Resonance, and Poison, but there are some real head scratchers about its values.
I just wish Acid Arrow and Disruption Arrow had better debuff :
-20% -res each on troller
-25% -res on defender
And Oil slick recharge in 120 sec instead of 180.
This 'll be a huge (and easy) boost to the set IMO.
I personally like TA because of the different feel it provides while playing.
I mean you have no anchor to worry about, have a lot of different tools at your disposal (toolbox effect) and at the same time do good to great damage all things considered.
The long recharges can be a bit of an issue, that is true, but Burnout is a god send for that set in the rare cases you need it.
@Viper Kinji
Currently working on:
Turtle Snapper - SD/MA/Ice Tanker
I like the set for the same reason. And since I often play buff/heal-heavy sets like Thermal - because I like them! - sometimes it's just refreshing to choose a character that is not directly responsible for her allies' hit points/def/res. Like "You could die, this time. I. Just. Don't. Care. (I'll do my best to avoid it with my controls and my debuffs, but don't count on me to heal you or watch your shields)"
I would edit Trick Arrow as follows:
Entangling Arrow: Add an unehanceable 0.5 magnitude Hold, 20 second duration, no stacking with self. This small change means that Ice Arrow can hold a boss when combined with it, and allows Entangle Arrow to be used on bosses after EMP arrow as well for similar effect.
Glue Arrow: Should either use standard -Recharge values for powers of this type or have an additional debuff. Standard values are around 50 to 70%.
Poison Gas Arrow: Add -500% Regen.
Flash Arrow: Add -20% To Hit, Resistable, on top of existing Unresistable -ToHit.
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Heck, even if you did allow self stacking, you'd still need to TRIPLE self stack it in order to Hold a +0 Minion without using Ice Arrow (or any other Hold power to augment).|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Entangling Arrow: Add an unehanceable 0.5 magnitude Hold, 20 second duration, no stacking with self. This small change means that Ice Arrow can hold a boss when combined with it, and allows Entangle Arrow to be used on bosses after EMP arrow as well for similar effect.
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Allow self stacking of the Hold, but do not allow slotting for Hold Enhancement, and it'll be fine. Edge cases of serious self stacking would still be "possible" ... but would be so much hassle to achieve that people would not bother with the effort.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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Not sure if I agree with this statement. Solo, I'd rank Trick Arrow 5th (after Kinetics, Radiation, Dark and Storm Summoning). Grouped, I'd rank it 9th (add Thermal, Time, Empathy and Sonic to the above 4 sets). The only sets that Trick Arrow really beats out unqualified for raw damage increase would be Traps, Cold and Force Field.|
Originally Posted by Trickshooter
C) It is one of the best sets for doing damage on a Defender, but teams will most likely be inviting other ATs to fill the damage role.
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Trick Arrow's damage increase comes from a 3 minute recharge Oil Slick that's about half the damage of a Defender's Blizzard or Tornado coupled with 2 stacking -20% resistance debuffs.
All the other sets have 30% resistance debuffs (Traps is 26%, Storm is 35%, Sonic can stack two on a single target) coupled with buffs that vary from 'nice' (Forge) to 'omfgbroken' (Fulcrum Shift).
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I'm not sure if you are being intentionally deceptive or actually think this...|
Originally Posted by Beauregard
Not sure if I agree with this statement. Solo, I'd rank Trick Arrow 5th (after Kinetics, Radiation, Dark and Storm Summoning). Grouped, I'd rank it 9th (add Thermal, Time, Empathy and Sonic to the above 4 sets). The only sets that Trick Arrow really beats out unqualified for raw damage increase would be Traps, Cold and Force Field.
Trick Arrow's damage increase comes from a 3 minute recharge Oil Slick that's about half the damage of a Defender's Blizzard or Tornado coupled with 2 stacking -20% resistance debuffs. All the other sets have 30% resistance debuffs (Traps is 26%, Storm is 35%, Sonic can stack two on a single target) coupled with buffs that vary from 'nice' (Forge) to 'omfgbroken' (Fulcrum Shift). |
Mids might be wrong on this (it is often wonky about these things but I also know that the placed objects like blizzard are often the same across ATs) but it lists Defender, Corruptor, and Blaster Blizzards as all doing about 500 base damage. So if this is correct you have clearly chosen an anomaly to compare to oil slick. The other defender nukes do base according to mids: archery=146, ar=103, beam=126, dark=176, dual=118, elec=153, energy=176, fire=272, psi=176, rad=198, sonic=176.
Oil slick base is 250. The average of the above nukes damage (including 500 for blizzard) is 193. So on average oil slick does more damage. It also tends to be up much more often. It also has a knockdown effect so that mobs stay on the slick for the whole damage period, unlike blizzard where mobs are notorious for running out of it during its duration.
And Tornado? Yes, it is listed as 407 base but you are never going to get that for a whole spawn. The best you are going to be able to do is stick some guy with enough immobs so that he has -knockback (must reapply as -knockback expires before immob does) on him and hope Tornado sticks with him for the whole duration. This is nowhere comparable to the reliable AOE damage of oil slick.
As far as defender primary damage is concerned, traps with trip mine would have been far better to discuss because it does 126 damage on a pretty sprightly 20 sec recharge timer. And it is genuinely AOE. The problem with it of course it that it knockbacks people out the center, and so it can be finicky to apply in team settings and even solo can muck up your other aoe.
Oil slick is nice because in recharge intensive end-game builds it can be up virtually all the time and does reliable damage that doesn't f*** with anything else and has the side effect that things tend to stay on it and you can stack it with disruption (best but limited targets) and acid (okay but not large enough aoe).
Again, I will lay against you the criticism that I did against Turbo-Ski earlier: I don't think you actually have any experience in high end TA builds.
For the record, I DO have 50s with all of blizzard, tornado, and trip mine and am talking from experience with my claims.
The things I play most are defenders/corruptors/controllers/dominators, and I have many many 50s with all of the popular sets like kinetics etc etc.
I think that early game TA is weak and make no claims otherwise. Since you were bringing blizzard (on a defender! where they only get it at 38 and can only slot it later) into your argument though, I could only assume you were also talking about late game.
So I agree with Trickshooters claim that it is one of the best sets for doing damage on a defender. If you combine oil with disruption and acid, you are doing damage in a team setting. Obviously kinetics wins in this situation and is going to be higher with fulcrum shift (provided you don't already have a kinetics because definitely TA stacks better than kinetics.) But on the basis of "damage in a team setting" it is doing better than radiation and dark because it is providing oil in addition to the resistance debuffs. Storm I think it is still doing more damage "in a team setting" because storm has freezing rain yes for the resistance debuffs but tornado especially is not team friendly and lightning storm doesn't do reliable big AOE damage for a whole spawn--it just potshots who it wants to and sometimes hits one and sometimes hits more. Traps solo has trip mine which is VERY nice but in a team it can be problematic and is often not optimal.
In short, I disagree with you and agree with Trickshooter. He was perfectly justified in saying it is one of the best sets for doing damage on a defender (especially in a team setting which is where I think he was making the claim.)
It is just very easy to lay oil down and the -resistance debuffs and know that you right there have done a lot of aoe damage whether solo or teamed. There is no worrying about herding to get them tightly packed or else enervating field won't be hitting all of them. Oil slick has a large radius and is location aoe. There is no worrying about them running out of it, because oil slick has -speed and knockdown. There is no worrying about having to continually apply an immob with -knockback to keep them where they are supposed to be because you are trying to tornado them. It is just damage and it is there.
"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
I enjoy my TA/Archery Defender (currently 31) for several reasons:
1) He had a good theme. I'm all for a good theme.
2) He's got a big toolbox full of stuff. Guy running? Got stuff for that. Big tough boss? Got stuff for that. Big mob? Got stuff for that. I like having options.
3) He's very useful in a team setting and endgame he still will be with IOs. Between the Oil Slick (with either a damage proc or a -Resist proc), Disruption Arrow (-20% Resist every 30 seconds), Glue Arrow (every 30 seconds), Rain of Arrows (every 30 seconds), Acid Arrow (as slotted -36% Def and -20% Resist) every 10 seconds and S/L Resist in the 60s he does ok for himself. Oh by the way solo he has a 60% damage bonus so he may not be doing Blaster damage but his Oil Slick is 647 and his RoA is 377.
4) He's FUN! Jeez people all I hear is 'how much damage can I pump out in 8 seconds on a Trial.' Doesn't anybody build for FUN any more?
I was on a TA superteam. We slaughtered everything in front of us. If I'm on a team that's lfm and I spot a TA I point to them because I love mine and IMHO they always bring something to the team.
YMMV
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
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I think everyone builds for fun. The caricature of the numbers-obsessed minmaxer who nitpicks over every percentage point and has a miserable life doing so is just that, a caricature. Nobody actually behaves like that, except maybe through the lens of your cognitive bias.|
Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
4) He's FUN! Jeez people all I hear is 'how much damage can I pump out in 8 seconds on a Trial.' Doesn't anybody build for FUN any more?
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If people obsess over how much damage they can pump out in 8 seconds on a trial, obviously having high damage is fun for them. People will enjoy different things than you.
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You're thinking of Ice Storm, not Blizzard. Blizzard has both slow and knockdown components, so when you drop it most enemies just sit there and flop around helplessly getting pummeled. And, yes, it's an anomaly - but it's just about the only one of the ultimate end-drainers that's worthwhile on a support class precisely because it doubles as a control effect (the fact that it will single-handedly wipe out all the minions/lieutenants is a nice extra).|
Originally Posted by _Ail_
Oil slick base is 250. The average of the above nukes damage (including 500 for blizzard) is 193. So on average oil slick does more damage. It also tends to be up much more often. It also has a knockdown effect so that mobs stay on the slick for the whole damage period, unlike blizzard where mobs are notorious for running out of it during its duration.
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You're missing the main point, though. Oil Slick does quite a bit of damage - infrequently. So while it looks impressive, it contributes a fairly small portion of the total damage compared to buffs/debuffs. When you're comparing Trick Arrow to a set that also debuffs resistance an equivalent amount, the presence of buffs to enhance damage in that other set tend to put it ahead of Trick Arrow for a team's overall damage.
Look at it this way: with Oil Slick dealing 250, that means it's doing 1.38 dps (at +0% recharge). Fireball is 45 on the same scale, for 2.81 dps (at +0% recharge). Now, we'll use Forge on that player. 50% of 2.81 is 1.4 dps.
In other words, our Thermal Defender just managed to deliver more added damage to the team by using Forge once on another Defender who is using no attack except Fireball than our Trick Arrow Defender managed to generate via igniting Oil Slicks.
Once you add in factors like "you can Forge multiple players", "the players you Forge tend to do a lot more damage than Defenders" and "players tend to throw more than one attack every 16 sec that Forge buffs", there really isn't any comparison. Forge is ridiculously better than Oil Slick for increasing your team's overall damage. Since Thermal Defenders also get Melt Armor (delivering only slightly smaller resistance debuffs than Trick Arrow), it's entirely fair to say that Thermal Defenders are better at increasing a team's damage than Trick Arrow Defenders.
I suspect where your thought process is going awry is imagining team settings where your team is moving at an abnormally slow pace. In a semi-decent team, a Trick Arrow/Fire Defender can realistically expect to toss 11+ Fireballs for each Oil Slick they toss. Solo, this ratio is more like 2 Fireballs per Oil Slick - and Oil Slick ends up looking a lot better.
Yes, that Thermal can apply Forge to about 3-4 players, but the Trick Arrows can put out Disruption Arrows and Acid Arrows at every encounter (after SOs come in to play, anyway) and increase an entire team or league's damage output.
Also, you're comparing Oil Slick Arrow to powers in the secondaries, and that's not a good argument to make because TA is a primary, so it can be paired with those secondary powers you say have better DPS or just plain do more damage.
But that is part of the reason I still stand behind my original point that TA is one of the best sets for dealing damage on a Defender.
Why?
Because it does damage independent of the secondary powerset.
For direct damage, as long as you have a way to light your Oil Slick, you are doing more damage using Oil Slick Arrow and your secondary powerset than just using your secondary powerset alone.
Yes, a Defender using Blizzard will do more damage than a Defender using Oil Slick Arrow, but a TA/Ice Defender using Oil Slick Arrow and Blizzard will be doing more damage than a Defender using just Blizzard.
I hope that clears up what my point was.
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I just set team sizes (like minutes ago) for +4/x8 and did blizzard on my ice/traps in a nem farm. (Sorry I have been villain side |
Originally Posted by Beauregard
You're thinking of Ice Storm, not Blizzard. Blizzard has both slow and knockdown components, so when you drop it most enemies just sit there and flop around helplessly getting pummeled. And, yes, it's an anomaly - but it's just about the only one of the ultimate end-drainers that's worthwhile on a support class precisely because it doubles as a control effect (the fact that it will single-handedly wipe out all the minions/lieutenants is a nice extra).
You're missing the main point, though. Oil Slick does quite a bit of damage - infrequently. So while it looks impressive, it contributes a fairly small portion of the total damage compared to buffs/debuffs. When you're comparing Trick Arrow to a set that also debuffs resistance an equivalent amount, the presence of buffs to enhance damage in that other set tend to put it ahead of Trick Arrow for a team's overall damage. Look at it this way: with Oil Slick dealing 250, that means it's doing 1.38 dps (at +0% recharge). Fireball is 45 on the same scale, for 2.81 dps (at +0% recharge). Now, we'll use Forge on that player. 50% of 2.81 is 1.4 dps. In other words, our Thermal Defender just managed to deliver more added damage to the team by using Forge once on another Defender who is using no attack except Fireball than our Trick Arrow Defender managed to generate via igniting Oil Slicks. Once you add in factors like "you can Forge multiple players", "the players you Forge tend to do a lot more damage than Defenders" and "players tend to throw more than one attack every 16 sec that Forge buffs", there really isn't any comparison. Forge is ridiculously better than Oil Slick for increasing your team's overall damage. Since Thermal Defenders also get Melt Armor (delivering only slightly smaller resistance debuffs than Trick Arrow), it's entirely fair to say that Thermal Defenders are better at increasing a team's damage than Trick Arrow Defenders. I suspect where your thought process is going awry is imagining team settings where your team is moving at an abnormally slow pace. In a semi-decent team, a Trick Arrow/Fire Defender can realistically expect to toss 11+ Fireballs for each Oil Slick they toss. Solo, this ratio is more like 2 Fireballs per Oil Slick - and Oil Slick ends up looking a lot better. |
too long and tend to use the old standbys for tests.) I pretty routinely got 3 of 11 or so running out of the spawn from blizzard. I don't get any running out when using oil slick on the TA/A in the +4/x8 nem farm, although I do (!!) use glue to keep them in as well so maybe that is affecting things but this seems fair to me as we are talking about the TA primary. Regardless, as Trickshooter said, this was a discussion from defender primaries in any case. I think you would be better off choosing sonic blast for the -res in a team setting and not having to worry about the significant effect of end crash which does get in the way of your other duties. My point stands: Oil slick is in a defender primary so I don't know why you are bringing up secondary nukes as regards to Trickshooters comment but it does do more damage than the average secondary nuke with significantly less bother and better recharge.As far as the thermal comments go, you do realize that the +damage is just for base damage and not actual slotted in game damage, right? In practice it does significantly less damage boosting than you might think. Oil slick (642 damage on a 45 sec recharge timer) not including resistance debuffs that would make it do more is a spawn killer. You probably just didn't realize it because you are not really a TA player and are talking from inexperience.
In any case TA also has both disruption and acid which do actual +20% damage boosting (each!) damage since they are -resistance. I can routinely double stack disruption as well. This is +60% actual damage boosting for the whole team. Thermal has melt armor as well but it is just -30 rez.
Again, I think that you basically don't have much experience with high end TA builds and are mids-playing rather than actual playing. Or you have teamed with TAs and from your lack of knowledge not realized what they were actually contributing. I know from experience that is is very easy just to babysit an entire team damage-wise (an in, either virtually PL them or actually PL them) with just a TA/A. I see kinetics making that claim but not many thermals. :P
"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
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Before you reply, read the post. Your spurious objection was already covered.|
Originally Posted by _Ail_
As far as the thermal comments go, you do realize that the +damage is just for base damage and not actual slotted in game damage, right?
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| In any case TA also has both disruption and acid which do actual +20% damage boosting (each!) damage since they are -resistance. I can routinely double stack disruption as well. This is +60% actual damage boosting for the whole team. Thermal has melt armor as well but it is just -30 rez. |
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| I know from experience that is is very easy just to babysit an entire team damage-wise (an in, either virtually PL them or actually PL them) with just a TA/A. I see kinetics making that claim but not many thermals. :P |
A little hint for you: when you claim "experience", most readers understand this is code for "I don't know wtf I'm talking about". Anyone can claim "experience" on the web, and if you actually know what you're talking about, there's no need for you to do so. You look especially foolish when all of your examples indicate a sort of experience which is wildly different from the norm (as yours do).
I think balance isn't objectively easy to quantify by most people. People compare one power to another or the debuff per animation rate to another without looking at powersets as a whole and with regard to the concept behind it. Then there are qualities that exist in one powerset that do not exist in another that is hard to quantify.
I think Devs have done about 4 or 5 passes at TA since its inclusion live and at each pass somethings just never change and people still unknowingly perhaps, spend time suggesting ideas that have come and gone before to make it look balanced to them. With each pass I am more and more resigned to the idea that the Devs have a higher opinion of the set. The advantages of anchor free debuffing, the high dps potential of oil slick maybe two of some more things seen by the Devs as making up for the lack of other quantities. If the way people play wish to play one or with one has nothing to do with the design intent then that has nothing to do whether or not the set is balanced whilst some people can and/or do play by design.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I wouldn't really say TA has had 4 or 5 passes. It's shown up in plenty of patch notes, but other than animation time changes, these have only been bug fixes. If you really go back and read the patch notes, TA hasn't receive an actual buff since Issue 7 (when Glue Arrow and Disruption Arrow had their recharge timers reduced to 60s). And from the PM I got from Synapse, they would like to work on making real changes to the set, but don't have the time yet.
Whether that means they have just don't have any time to deviate from their schedule or that the time they can use wouldn't be enough for the amount of changes, I don't know, but he reassured me it was on their radar, but changes, if any, were at least a year off.
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(1) If you did this, it was very subtle. You said "Look at it this way: with Oil Slick dealing 250, that means it's doing 1.38 dps (at +0% recharge). Fireball is 45 on the same scale, for 2.81 dps (at +0% recharge). Now, we'll use Forge on that player. 50% of 2.81 is 1.4 dps." By talking about base damage of oil slick in this situation rather than actual slotted (with damage enhancers) damage, you strongly implied that you were unaware of how damage buffs work. Because of course it is the enhanced oil slick damage that you would be comparing things with. Although the player using fireball would also have damage slotted, the forge buff would only be increasing base damage. It was not increasing the slotted damage.|
Originally Posted by Beauregard
(1) Before you reply, read the post. Your spurious objection was already covered.
(2) So your answer to "Trick Arrow is good solo, not so good in teams" is "well, Trick Arrow is great when you're effectively solo because the rest of your team is useless lowbies"? (3) A little hint for you: when you claim "experience", most readers understand this is code for "I don't know wtf I'm talking about". Anyone can claim "experience" on the web, and if you actually know what you're talking about, there's no need for you to do so. You look especially foolish when all of your examples indicate a sort of experience which is wildly different from the norm (as yours do). |
(2) My first comment was simply that TA can definitely contribute to team damage, and I gave an example where it would be abundantly clear it was able to do big damage. Of course other examples would have it less clear that it was contributing big damage, which is why I listed the PL case. My other arguments talked abundantly about other cases and you can refer to them for the core general team setting.
(3) As far as your third comment, I backed up my claims of experience with valid numbers and argued my point. All I see you bringing up are talking about blizzard when (a) it is an anomaly; (b) is in the secondary and so what not relevant to Trickshooters claim in the first place; and (c) Could be taken by TA in any case. And then you talked about Tornado, which I handily rebuffed and you failed to respond to.
Basically, I have been responding to your claims with actual arguments that used numbers and listed experience and logically refuted your claims. You seem to be just bringing up random ones (i.e., Tornado) and then dropping them when convenient.
I rest my case that you are either intentionally being deceptive (a possibility) or are really just so inexperienced with TA that you can't help but make ridiculous claims.
You originally took issue with Trickshooters claim that TA is a top defender choice to invite to teams for damage. You then proceeded to say that it was ranked 5th solo or 9th teamed in damage contribution. Go back and look. These were the claims I was responding to.
I amply responded to these claims with both numbers and arguments and experience. People don't like TA, but NOT because it isn't a big contributor top team damage. It is. Ranking it 5th or 9th among defender primaries for damage contribution shows that you are either intentionally being deceptive or are just flat out inexperienced. I was being kind and assuming you were not intentionally deceptive so was assuming you were just inexperienced. I apologize if that was not the case. Saying that TA does damage IS THE NORM. So I am not "wildly different" from it when I say that. It is apparently your reading comprehension of other people's complaints about TA that is at issue. They think it has too many clicky debuffs that take the place of fewer debuffs in other sets, that its best abilities are at the highest levels, and that it it should bring buffs or other things to the table. When people say TA sucks, it is not its damage they are referring to. Please read my posts again and I think you will find you have been refuted at every turn.
"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
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If I go back and read the patch notes, which takes a while, I'd be counting up all the reduced animation time changes as an actual change/pass. |
Originally Posted by Trickshooter
I wouldn't really say TA has had 4 or 5 passes. It's shown up in plenty of patch notes, but other than animation time changes, these have only been bug fixes. If you really go back and read the patch notes, TA hasn't receive an actual buff since Issue 7 (when Glue Arrow and Disruption Arrow had their recharge timers reduced to 60s).
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Buffs or nerfs are both often good in one sense and bad in another sense. A pass doesn't have to mean a popular buff.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
OK, I took a look, the damage was unexpectedly good and the build looks promising. I still have concerns over the lack of massive layered defences that I'm used to (def/res/control/debuff/heal). But this looks like a powerset worth checking out. Thanks for sharing.