Gender Equality in Costumes - A lack thereof

Does it have cow skulls? (Gah...now I'm hearing Christopher Walken and his more cowbell sketch.) That was the first thing I noticed on the set, was that the female pieces have cow skulls on them, as if doing that makes them Western. The men have it too, and the arm ones actually get jammed into his skull on certain moves.

Shush, you. You're offended and you know it! Haven't you read anything in the thread?

My only gripe is that it does seem a bit false that the "gunslinger" outfit doesn't have anything gunslingery for women.

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

Ok, can we drop the overkill on hyperbole here?

No one I've seen is asking for 'Only ever having butch women outfits! From now on!'

What we are sick of is ONLY having prissy stuff. It's what you said above, only in reverse. There are no or very few options for tougher female characters, no actual gunslingers.

The issue is not that those parts exist, but that there are NO other options when there should have been.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Have you seen Demon Summoning? Er, sorry, I mean Gunslinger Summoning?

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

I have to agree. Only one of my characters is a pancake. That I can think of.

Granted, I do have one former adult film star, one exotic dancer, one demonic temptress, one former demonic temptress, one cult leader who isn't above using sex (and psychic powers) to control her followers, a former teen pop star, two cheerleaders and a Lingerie Football League player. All of them have at least been called pancake at some point.

K

Who said that, Hyperbole Lisa?

Speaking for myself, I said Gunslinger? Cool, I'll drop some chaps on my girl with a hat and trenchcoat and... no? OK, I'll pull on my old west jacket or vest and.... nope. Nothing in these is unshapely. I could happily hunt down and link several samples to nix that silly attitude, but I'd likely get modded.

Um...does Jay even still work here?

Lisa stands next to Golden Girl.

I bought it, and I like it.

It may not be Gunfightery, but it makes a nice Christmas outfit.

Lisa.

Doesn't he??? What happened???

Lisa

Hehe, yep. My first 50 MM is a Demon MM. Man, I'm never going to be able to look at my demons the same way now.....
:P

Save some ?s for the rest of us. They're in short supply these days.
I was asking because I've seen threads saying he doesn't.

Then it has absolutely NO right being in a Pack called 'Gunslinger' does it?
This pretty much proves my point.

And yes, as far as I know, Jay still works here. And no, he's still not sexy. I've never met him so I'll err on the side of him probably being a nice guy in person, and hold nothing against him. But for crying out loud 'Sexy Jay' is just so old and lame...

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Yes - he's still eating moon rocks too

Wow, stereotype much?

I certainly hope you don't wear jeans or a jacket in real life. I mean, you wouldn't want to be mistaken for a man, now would you?

I approve of this post

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Thank you for clearing that up.

Yes and no. I mean I can't pretend to speak to what chain of decisions and events specifically lead to CoT v2.0 (I really like v2.1 though!) and the Reichsmann TFs. I wasn't there.

But as an artist who works independently for myself, also has relationships with the management chains of exhibition venues AND has done freelance work for over a decade, I can say that there are indeed things that managers from very corporate environments can do to shield their creatives and foster them to thrive.

For one, I have worked jobs that may have say a 15 day production time. But my better managers include usually 2-3 days production just for me to research, to play, to push ideas, to fail, to come back, etc. When that is not there, I can guarantee that whomever is hiring me will likely be getting my first ideas and my first takes on a problem.

Similarly, there is constrained client contact for my part as a creative worker when things are ideal for my working habits. Clients can be psychotic. (These forums--including myself maybe?) Some of them (unlike these forums) really lack imagination, narrative or visual. So good project managers know how to protect ideas while they are still developing. (As they asserted was the case with CoT v2.0 when it was leaked.)

But there also always is a need for critique. To cycle back. To bring client feedback into the creative process at a stage. And to have adequate time budgeted for modifications. On those 15 day jobs, 5-8 of those days are often for revisions alone.

Beyond this, there is also a lot of nuance that I'm not really prepared to articulate. I'm talking about stuff that takes place at the interpersonal level. Rapport. As I sit here recounting, my best managers are all former artists or went through full art or design programs. They understand the brutality of academic art critique and can deliver without beating around the bush.

The places I usually work as a subcontractor for are usually subcontractors themselves. And these are in competitive industries often: fashion, entertainment and media. The stakes are high. When you get an opportunity, you need to swing for the fences. Every time. Surprise and impress the client with what they didn't know they wanted while delivering everything they asked for; be willing to be bold and know that sometimes less is more; all while meeting budgets and deadlines. If you falter in your track record, someone equally and driven and five to ten years younger than you is waiting for a shot right behind you.

But again, somehow, the best managers I've had, despite the harsh realities of this work environment I know as an artist, find ways to foster a safe creative place where excellence can matter--even if just momentarily within the production studio or editing suite. And it's these experiences that make me ask some sweeping, broad almost existential questions in response to Zombie Man's critique of what some of the things coming out of the art department can lead us on the outside to believe.

I don't know what the answers are for them. I truly don't. Not just because I don't know the details of their work environment. As I said in my, I've tried my hand at project management. In my niches can pay phenomenally well if you've got the chops and can avoid burnout. But I hated it. I like to keep my hands dirty. I like being the practical expert not the overseer. My perfectionism makes me more suited to be in the trenches and not at the helm. So I've no idea what sort of managerial corrections are in order.

And yes, freedom in a work place can lead to the problems you and ZM outline. But I'll tell you as a working artist, lack of freedom can kill a work environment for any creative that sets foot there. So the adjustments that need to be made may be more subtle than we're giving credit here.

*claps*

Hi Chyll...Hyperbole? I just said what I got out of reading this thread. The players want to dress their female toons in the same outfits that they dress their men toons. From what I understand, we want lots and lots of heavy baron jackets and coats...which are very unshapely.

Sigh. I am sorry if I misunderstood, but I don't see sluttyness anywhere on the female gunslinger outfit my toon is presently wearing. If I knew how, I would post a screenshot....I agree it is not a gunslingin' outfit, but it does not deserve all this hatred.

Hate the artists for not giving us man clothing for our females..don't hate the outfit.

Lisa.

It's just another symptom of the new priorities for City of Heroes. In the past, I bought every single costume pack without even looking at them. Now, I haven't bought the last, what, three? Four? You guys aren't even trying any more. But by all means, keep stooping to the lowest denominator while claiming the higher road. Frankly, I've seen the Gunslinger set. And even the guy parts suck.

This is my complete and total lack of surprise or interest.

What I got from your posts was indeed hyperbole. Take that as you will.

And, yes, while the pieces themselves are not bad per se (decent texture quality and make and all that) it's the complete lack of any female GUNSLINGER parts in a GUNSLINGER pack that is the inate problem here.

Examples from previous packs;

Magic: Sorceresses and robes and such? Nope, 'Sexy Witch pack'

Steampunk: More hats, gloves and steampunky stuff like goggles and things? Nope, 'More Corsets!' pack

Barbarian: Rag/fur/hide armour, draped chainmail and animal skull stuff? Armour with bits of metal hammered on? Nope, 'Even MOAR corsets and thigh high boots!' pack



Do you see my (and other peoples) problem here? We are getting no choice, no options. It's the 'sexified' stuff, or nothing. Nada. Zilch.

We don't want 'women in mens kit' (although stuff like the Baron and Gunslinger jacket would be nice) ; we want female appropriate parts that aren't 'yet another damn corset' that fit the theme.

I don't think that's unreasonable.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

No one said 'give me bulky man clothes 'cause I want to look like a blob'. Many of the same posters said, I have plenty of sexy/skimpy outfits.

The predominate tone of the thread is - summarizing "Devs you called it gunslinger. It is, instead, gunslinger and prostitute (that is, indeed the commonly recognized outfit of a 1880s old west saloon girl). I don't need three sets of corsets, puffy sleeves, and dainty curls."

You have, indeed, turned your counterpoint into hyperbole.

Best fortune I ever got:

"A romantic evening ends abruptly."

/sidetrack

Signed in triplicate. Someone reign these guys in, please. Where's War Witch when you need her?