Discussion: The Special Black Friday Sale has been extended!
By
2short2care,
Posted on: 2011-11-22 11:32 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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I find it hilarious that when someone would prefer to buy SBEs rather than deal with the Invention System, there's always a "lazy", "incompetent", "Learn to play" or some other insult involved. You'd figure after seven years, I'd be used to it by now.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
And so, because you don't have time, it means that those of us who made time because we wanted to have top enhancements for our characters now get to be told "Oh I know you worked to get that stuff in your build, but SURPRISE! Joe Lazy Guy with a 20 dollar bill can get 'em without any effort required!"
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| It's a slippery slope- Your argument can be applied to Incarnate content too. "I don't have time to get Incarnate salvage. Let me give you irl money for it!" And the same for badges, "I don't have time to collect badges, here lemme pay you for 'em." |
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| Pretty much the trend this sets is that if irl money can be equated to things earned in game, the game loses all of its integrity. There is no point in actually playing the game if you can simply purchase everything. Now, I'm all for selling costumes, non combat pets, rocket slides, and all those other little trinkets that don't alter game performance. When it comes to this, though, I am not comfortable. |
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
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I'll let you know when that multi-million dollar check rolls in for playing CoH man.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
We are playing a game, just like professional athletes.
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But don't hold your breath...
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
I'll let you know when that multi-million dollar check rolls in for playing CoH man.
But don't hold your breath... |
*Sigh* It's sad that I have to do this, but this is the second post in this thread where I find myself needing to ask, "Do you not grasp the concept of analogy? Or are you being intentionally obtuse because you disagree with my overall point?"
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I think the problem is that your analogy is simply flawed. Let's roll with this shall we. Your bent out of shape that some fairly nifty (though not terribly hard to get) enhancements will be sold in the store and comparing that to people buying a superbowl ring. The problem being that a superbowl ring is is a token of esteem for having won a RL sports competition. Store bought enhancements are merely a stepping stone in the development of a fictional character. No real blood sweat and tears ever goes into these said characters. (And FYI if it does, then it's probably time to turn off the computer and go play outside. |
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
*Sigh* It's sad that I have to do this, but this is the second post in this thread where I find myself needing to ask, "Do you not grasp the concept of analogy? Or are you being intentionally obtuse because you disagree with my overall point?"
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It seems your too worried about HOW someone may have gotten an enhancement and the truth is unless they flat out told you, you would never know. To me it's no different than the literal THOUSANDS of toons out there that are PL'd to 50 in a day or two. Yes, many players don't really like it, even though most of us have been pl'd to one degree or another at some given point in our gaming history. But the bottom line is it's no ones business how anyone get's his or her enhancements. Heck, between me and my gaming buddies, we GIVE our enhancements to one another if anyone needs anything, including purples. The devs are trying to beef up revenue. The more money that get's put into the game the longer the game runs. I agree it's a perilous slope they tread on. There must be limits in games. Without challenge, then whats the point? But honestly I don't see selling I.O. sets in the store as truly endangering very much content. Since I highly doubt ANYONE is only running missions in the desperate hopes of acquiring one specific recipe. Hoping to get it yes. But only playing to get it, doubtful. To do so would be "obtuse".
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And your entire post seems to be alluding a very simple fact. People who play MMO's generally work very hard on their characters, and have a sense of personal satisfaction for accomplishing things with those characters. The game world is meant to provide challenges for players to overcome, which keeps the game fresh and exciting. |
Originally Posted by Player D
I think the problem is that your analogy is simply flawed. Let's roll with this shall we. Your bent out of shape that some fairly nifty (though not terribly hard to get) enhancements will be sold in the store and comparing that to people buying a superbowl ring. The problem being that a superbowl ring is is a token of esteem for having won a RL sports competition. Store bought enhancements are merely a stepping stone in the development of a fictional character. No real blood sweat and tears ever goes into these said characters. (And FYI if it does, then it's probably time to turn off the computer and go play outside.
It seems your too worried about HOW someone may have gotten an enhancement and the truth is unless they flat out told you, you would never know. To me it's no different than the literal THOUSANDS of toons out there that are PL'd to 50 in a day or two. Yes, many players don't really like it, even though most of us have been pl'd to one degree or another at some given point in our gaming history. But the bottom line is it's no ones business how anyone get's his or her enhancements. Heck, between me and my gaming buddies, we GIVE our enhancements to one another if anyone needs anything, including purples. The devs are trying to beef up revenue. The more money that get's put into the game the longer the game runs. I agree it's a perilous slope they tread on. There must be limits in games. Without challenge, then whats the point? But honestly I don't see selling I.O. sets in the store as truly endangering very much content. Since I highly doubt ANYONE is only running missions in the desperate hopes of acquiring one specific recipe. Hoping to get it yes. But only playing to get it, doubtful. To do so would be "obtuse". |
Some people become fond of certain characters and choose to invest in top end enhancements to optimize their performance, in an attempt to do new and more difficult things. This process takes time and effort. Getting the best loot in the game is the goal of end game players, and it motivates them to spend their time running certain content in order to achieve that goal.
In the case of COH, that is content that helps with A.) Builds and B.) Incarnate powers.
If you eliminate the need to earn performance enhancing powers or enhancements, you eliminate the satisfaction that comes from playing the game. Selling top end enhancements or incarnate powers for real-life money negates the sense of accomplishment that comes from earning them, and it also eliminates the need to play said content in the first place.
This will have a negative impact on the integrity of the game: There is always going to be a "Now what do I do?" factor in games like this. Say you just got your first character to level 50, and now you want to get an IO build. As it is now, people will tell you that you need to spend "x" time doing "y" things to earn that build- It's another challenge, and another reason to play the game.
As it stands right now, if it weren't for the Incarnate system, and all IO's were available in the market, there would be nothing left to accomplish by playing the game. A sense of accomplishment is a very important part of a game like this, because without it there is no point.
Now, selling IO's because they're "outdated accomplishments" and the Incarnate System is the "new" way to progress level 50 characters is a pretty silly stance to take in my opinion, because it will perpetuate the idea of the game continually "nullifying" itself, which will leave people detached from their characters and disenchanted with the game.
The way to avoid something like this is to keep goals in game which take time and patience to meet as things that require said time and patience. Otherwise, you undermine the integrity of progression which will ultimately lead to the death of the game as a whole. This is not something I want to see- I really enjoy this game.
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I believe the compromise will eventually be that they sell all non-PvP/Purple IOs (that currently exist) in the Paragon Market on a permanent basis. This will allow for more slotting options (particularly for the Premium/Free crowd) and still maintain the "need to earn it" feeling people like you seem to need. This game stays in business awhile longer and everyone gets some of what they want in the end.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
And your entire post seems to be alluding a very simple fact. People who play MMO's generally work very hard on their characters, and have a sense of personal satisfaction for accomplishing things with those characters. The game world is meant to provide challenges for players to overcome, which keeps the game fresh and exciting.
Some people become fond of certain characters and choose to invest in top end enhancements to optimize their performance, in an attempt to do new and more difficult things. This process takes time and effort. Getting the best loot in the game is the goal of end game players, and it motivates them to spend their time running certain content in order to achieve that goal. In the case of COH, that is content that helps with A.) Builds and B.) Incarnate powers. If you eliminate the need to earn performance enhancing powers or enhancements, you eliminate the satisfaction that comes from playing the game. Selling top end enhancements or incarnate powers for real-life money negates the sense of accomplishment that comes from earning them, and it also eliminates the need to play said content in the first place. This will have a negative impact on the integrity of the game: There is always going to be a "Now what do I do?" factor in games like this. Say you just got your first character to level 50, and now you want to get an IO build. As it is now, people will tell you that you need to spend "x" time doing "y" things to earn that build- It's another challenge, and another reason to play the game. As it stands right now, if it weren't for the Incarnate system, and all IO's were available in the market, there would be nothing left to accomplish by playing the game. A sense of accomplishment is a very important part of a game like this, because without it there is no point. Now, selling IO's because they're "outdated accomplishments" and the Incarnate System is the "new" way to progress level 50 characters is a pretty silly stance to take in my opinion, because it will perpetuate the idea of the game continually "nullifying" itself, which will leave people detached from their characters and disenchanted with the game. The way to avoid something like this is to keep goals in game which take time and patience to meet as things that require said time and patience. Otherwise, you undermine the integrity of progression which will ultimately lead to the death of the game as a whole. This is not something I want to see- I really enjoy this game. |
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
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Exactly. This is why I don't like enhancements being sold in the store. Especially when they scale better than what can be earned in the game.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
If you eliminate the need to earn performance enhancing powers or enhancements, you eliminate the satisfaction that comes from playing the game.
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| The way to avoid something like this is to keep goals in game which take time and patience to meet as things that require said time and patience. Otherwise, you undermine the integrity of progression which will ultimately lead to the death of the game as a whole. This is not something I want to see- I really enjoy this game. |
Look, I don't complain about these things being sold because I cannot afford them. I'm far from poor. Just a few months ago, I dropped a few thousand dollars to fly across the country with my wife, stay in a nice hotel and go to PAX. I'm blessed to have much more money in my life than I need. I'm happy to pay for content, to have new areas to play in the game, new things to do in the game. But, I don't like buying the game's rewards. To me, getting rewards and improving my character is one of the main reasons for playing the game.
Can you purchase multiple Invention system access or only one at a time?
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Buying enhancements doesn't eliminate the rest of the game, which is actually "playing the game". Making and slotting enhancements is a fairly minor part of the game, one that many people think is a tedious project at best.| If you eliminate the need to earn performance enhancing powers or enhancements, you eliminate the satisfaction that comes from playing the game. |
Why do you think there is so much FARMING in this game (and every other game with high end gear)? So people get their stuff faster. A large number (possibly the majority, possibly not) of farmers don't actually enjoy farming... they're not doing something they ENJOY. That is a RIDICULOUS prospect in a pretendy fun time GAME.
There are a zillion things to do in the game that I would rather be doing than sitting at the market filling bids, sitting in my base crafting pieces, or farming for drops. Most of my characters don't use anything other than common IOs because I find it so frikken tedious. I don't get satisfaction out of putting IOs in my character's slots, I get satisfaction out of PLAYING MY CHARACTER.
If I had the money to spend on SBEs, you bet your bottom I'd do it in a heartbeat because then I could get to go do something I enjoy. And it shouldn't matter to you where I got my stuff, as long as I am enjoying myself. If I'm enjoying myself, WHY DO YOU CARE?
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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AFAIK, you can only have one non-consumable product active at a time on your account. So *I think* (grain of salt, please - I'm still waiting on a PM confirmation) if you buy the cheap Invention License, you won't be able to buy it again.
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Originally Posted by B_Nix
Can you purchase multiple Invention system access or only one at a time?
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Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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My IOed scrapper has around 5 attacks and 4 slotted armors. All done through gameplay and marketing.
Anyone willing to spend 3600 points (9*400) during a sale, or over 7500 points normally to do the same will NOT cheapen my character.
Rather it will make me go "you did what?" in disbelief.
I'm not a fan either of how better store bought IOs are, but the amount of cash needed to use them makes me not really care if someone uses. That's a lot of money for silly pretendy ones and zeroes, and if Paragon takes their money, then good.
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And this is the other side of the fence. The side I'm on. Agg put it as well as I could (and probably better).|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
Why do you think there is so much FARMING in this game (and every other game with high end gear)? So people get their stuff faster. A large number (possibly the majority, possibly not) of farmers don't actually enjoy farming... they're not doing something they ENJOY. That is a RIDICULOUS prospect in a pretendy fun time GAME.
There are a zillion things to do in the game that I would rather be doing than sitting at the market filling bids, sitting in my base crafting pieces, or farming for drops. Most of my characters don't use anything other than common IOs because I find it so frikken tedious. I don't get satisfaction out of putting IOs in my character's slots, I get satisfaction out of PLAYING MY CHARACTER. |
I get zero enjoyment out of grinding for IOs. It took me about three years to finish my build on my main hero, and my main villain is still only about half done. And as a result, the rest of my characters are mostly using SOs, with a couple using common IOs.
If I could afford it, I'd drop some cash on a few LotG +Recharges and Numina procs, because I see giving actual money to the development team as being better than giving pretend money to the in-game farmers. There's something attractive to me about validating the time spent Paragon Studios has been working on the game rather than the time some pancaker has spent playing it.
But don't worry your pretty little head, 2HB... I lost my job last month, and spending what little money I have on video game enhancements isn't an option for me right now. You and your "l33t builds" can continue feeling superior to me.
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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If they are contributing to the out of game economy, then there is no loss from them not contributing to the in-game economy.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
There are many other things to consider also. You're speaking from your perspective, and that's certainly fine, but not everyone shares that perspective. You need to keep in mind that access to the alignment system and the market are sold in the store, which I think is totally fair. The game is looking to expand. People are told that the way to get x enhancement to increase character performance is to run tips and play the market, both of which help to sustain the in game economy. Now, what is a premium player's incentive to contribute to the in game economy if they can simply buy the enhancements and forgo the process of earning them?
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agreed.|
Originally Posted by Liquid
I agree that the consumables should stay at this level.
Windfall also really needs to specify exactly what it does. I might buy it at that price, but I need to know what drop rates it increases, and how much. Inf gain isn't appealing to me at all-- most of my inf comes from selling IO drops. This has the potential to be the one existing consumable I would buy repeatedly, but I'm not going to buy it blind. That VIP starter kit is a great idea, I hope that's at the top of the email you send out to the Freems about this. I'm really glad you're having this sale, I hope it turns out well for you! Edit in response to Zwillinger: Woohoo! I really hope it works out well, then, because I think in the long run it will make you more money. |
windfall on beta: 4 purps
windfall on live: 0 purps
future purchases from me regarding windfall: 0
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
Just popping in here to update you guys regarding an item we had to remove from the Black Friday sale:
- Late yesterday we discovered a fairly egregious bug with the Numina's Convalescence set, so we made the decision to pull the item from this weekend's sale. Once we fix the bug we'll give everyone another chance to purchase it.
Sorry about anyone who was anticipating this one, however we felt it was important to fix the issue prior to people paying Paragon Points for it.
Thanks and Happy Turkey Day everyone!
-Z
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
It's funny, I was frustrated that the sale didn't start today because I wanted to get the Invention License on my second account and start leveling up my Street Justice/Willpower stalker. I'm going to my sister's tomorrow for the Thanksgiving dinner, and won't be able to get it then and I don't want to have to wait until Saturday.
Then it hit me: I am a *really* cheap *******. Seriously. $1? Just $1? I'm complaining about spending $1 on a different day? Yeesh. It's a good deal, don't get me wrong, but dang. Money's tight but it's not like I can't afford it with the free points I've gotten on that account thus far...
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Will it be offered at the same sale price, or at the "full price"? <_<
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Just popping in here to update you guys regarding an item we had to remove from the Black Friday sale:
- Late yesterday we discovered a fairly egregious bug with the Numina's Convalescence set, so we made the decision to pull the item from this weekend's sale. Once we fix the bug we'll give everyone another chance to purchase it. Sorry about anyone who was anticipating this one, however we felt it was important to fix the issue prior to people paying Paragon Points for it. Thanks and Happy Turkey Day everyone! -Z |
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
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Someone else who's on the same page. |
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
Buying enhancements doesn't eliminate the rest of the game, which is actually "playing the game". Making and slotting enhancements is a fairly minor part of the game, one that many people think is a tedious project at best.
Why do you think there is so much FARMING in this game (and every other game with high end gear)? So people get their stuff faster. A large number (possibly the majority, possibly not) of farmers don't actually enjoy farming... they're not doing something they ENJOY. That is a RIDICULOUS prospect in a pretendy fun time GAME. There are a zillion things to do in the game that I would rather be doing than sitting at the market filling bids, sitting in my base crafting pieces, or farming for drops. Most of my characters don't use anything other than common IOs because I find it so frikken tedious. I don't get satisfaction out of putting IOs in my character's slots, I get satisfaction out of PLAYING MY CHARACTER. If I had the money to spend on SBEs, you bet your bottom I'd do it in a heartbeat because then I could get to go do something I enjoy. And it shouldn't matter to you where I got my stuff, as long as I am enjoying myself. If I'm enjoying myself, WHY DO YOU CARE? |
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
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The latter. And also because your analogy breaks down because of the problems inherent in the comparison.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
*Sigh* It's sad that I have to do this, but this is the second post in this thread where I find myself needing to ask, "Do you not grasp the concept of analogy? Or are you being intentionally obtuse because you disagree with my overall point?"
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I'm not going to lie and say this situation doesn't affect you. Indirectly it does. I could put a slight damper on the market for regular IOs for those sets. Meaning nifty drops may not sell as fast for as much.
But, again, it's a game. I refuse to get "I Quit" levels of worked up over a game.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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That's 5,200 Points not spent in the store this weekend. Can we just buy the Numina's now and wait for you to fix them? |
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Just popping in here to update you guys regarding an item we had to remove from the Black Friday sale:
- Late yesterday we discovered a fairly egregious bug with the Numina's Convalescence set, so we made the decision to pull the item from this weekend's sale. Once we fix the bug we'll give everyone another chance to purchase it. Sorry about anyone who was anticipating this one, however we felt it was important to fix the issue prior to people paying Paragon Points for it. Thanks and Happy Turkey Day everyone! -Z |
No? Ok, if you insist, I'll just "grocery store shop"/Merit for the ones I want since the things I primarily burn merits on will be for sale.
Z, I have one request if you wouldn't mind passing it along. If you guys are going to sell things like this more often, would you mind either setting the sale dates on (or after) the 15th of the month or giving us plenty of advanced notice so we can prepare for it? Some of us only get paid once a month and usually set play money allotments, which would be helpful on the off chance that you guys might want some of it in the future.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
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Not sure if i was the one who found it 1st or not but it's where the +Regen/Reco Proc would not be slotted, I had bought the set on the beta sever for a char and it was not letting me slot it and saying it was too weak to use like i out leveled it.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Just popping in here to update you guys regarding an item we had to remove from the Black Friday sale:
- Late yesterday we discovered a fairly egregious bug with the Numina's Convalescence set, so we made the decision to pull the item from this weekend's sale. Once we fix the bug we'll give everyone another chance to purchase it. Sorry about anyone who was anticipating this one, however we felt it was important to fix the issue prior to people paying Paragon Points for it. Thanks and Happy Turkey Day everyone! -Z |
Going to miss the fun and nice people here at CoH. Feel free to add me on PS3/XBox360
PS3X360: OmniNogard
Currently playing: Mass Effect 3(PS3) Minecraft(X360) Skyrim(X360).
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Originally Posted by OmniNogard
Not sure if i was the one who found it 1st or not but it's where the +Regen/Reco Proc would not be slotted, I had bought the set on the beta sever for a char and it was not letting me slot it and saying it was too weak to use like i out leveled it.
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Heh, heh, heh. Too bad. I was going to unslot in-game ones and toss them in the Wentworth's "grocery store" to swap for those, since most of those in the SBE sets would be extras otherwise. Next time, then.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
OK, 4 year VIP veteran here. A few items I see as practical, useful, and nifty to other folks: Martial Arts Pack (have it), VIP Upgrade, the invention license, transfer and respec tokens (too many stockpiled). Most of the rest is in the pay-to-win category: Recipe sets, inspirations, xp boosters, windfalls. Nothing I have any interest in messing with: I would rather get those through playing the game rather than spending cash.
The stuff I would be willing to spend money on, but just cannot justify the expense on, are those market items that make the overall game experience better without seeming like a cheat. Character slots, costume slots, storage space. hardly anything in that category got listed that I need.
I'll seriously consider the hat, however. Need to look at my points budget with respect to Titan Weapons and the Gunslinger costumes coming out.
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Heh, buying IOs in the Paragon Market is "cheating"? Awesome. I'll take that level of "cheating" over exploitation everytime.|
Originally Posted by Seschat
OK, 4 year VIP veteran here. A few items I see as practical, useful, and nifty to other folks: Martial Arts Pack (have it), VIP Upgrade, the invention license, transfer and respec tokens (too many stockpiled). Most of the rest is in the pay-to-win category: Recipe sets, inspirations, xp boosters, windfalls. Nothing I have any interest in messing with: I would rather get those through playing the game rather than spending cash.
The stuff I would be willing to spend money on, but just cannot justify the expense on, are those market items that make the overall game experience better without seeming like a cheat. Character slots, costume slots, storage space. hardly anything in that category got listed that I need. |
As far as "pay-to-win" goes, you get what you want playing the game your way, I'll spend the equivalent of 26 paid subsciptions this month getting what I want (there is a spending cap, unfortunately...) to play the game my way and we can both be happy. I'll even send you any IO recipe drops I get in-game that correspond to the sets I buy this weekend (for absolutely nothing) if it will make you feel better.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
I get Kinetic Combats and LotGs so I can excel at high end content, TFs, trials, farming, or whatever. I don't get them so I can be better at speeding through alignment tips. People don't run that stuff for the "actual content" if they're doing it for the rewards. They're doing it for the rewards. If they'd rather spend money than time to get those rewards, I don't see that as a problem.
Will I buy these items? Probably not. For one it's not that hard to obtain them and I already have a bunch of all of them. Two, I don't have enough money that I'd want to just throw it at that stuff. But even if I did buy them, it wouldn't be but for maybe one character. And I'd do it to improve her performance when exemped.
And I'd do it so I could go back to doing what I'd rather be doing instead of grinding alignment tips. "Actual content" won't be destroyed. If anything I could return to the actual content sooner. Calling the race to get Alignment Merits through tips "actual content" already makes me laugh. I already do everything I can to avoid playing them. I drop missions and stealth to the end. And since the SSAs come out, I just do those for Alignment Merits instead. Nothing of value would be lost by allowing people who don't want to do something the chance to not have to do it -- if they have enough money that is.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight