City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Null the Gull and Knockback

AmazingMOO

By AmazingMOO,
Posted on: 2011-11-11 01:00 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
Went to PI and tried this out with my Peacebringer. Not going to lie, really enjoyed the character for the first time. But this is clearly a bug and should be fixed.
Indeed, I hope they fix it as fast as they did the Shadow Cyst bug *chuckles*

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socorro View Post
Indeed, I hope they fix it as fast as they did the Shadow Cyst bug *chuckles*
And I hope they fix it *very* quickly. My PB is my favorite character, and just feels so "meh" now, to the point where I end up not wanting to log in.

Hit a Void with IS, watch him get right back up and in melee range - blah. Or, if you REALLY want to feel like you're not doing anything, take the character back into AP, find some low-low-lowbie clockwork (with lower kb resist than most other mobs,) fire and watch them... not really seem to care they should be sent flying.

This had *better* be fixed quickly. Yes, this *is* ruining my enjoyment of the game.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Model 75 View Post
And I hope they fix it *very* quickly. My PB is my favorite character, and just feels so "meh" now, to the point where I end up not wanting to log in.

Hit a Void with IS, watch him get right back up and in melee range - blah. Or, if you REALLY want to feel like you're not doing anything, take the character back into AP, find some low-low-lowbie clockwork (with lower kb resist than most other mobs,) fire and watch them... not really seem to care they should be sent flying.

This had *better* be fixed quickly. Yes, this *is* ruining my enjoyment of the game.
I hear you, but my PB is also my favorite character, and this is increasing my enjoyment of the game.

Give us the option of Yay or Nay, Devs - make everyone happy

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Model 75 View Post
This had *better* be fixed quickly. Yes, this *is* ruining my enjoyment of the game.
This argument can really be used by either side. I for one am having a blast now that knockback doesn't ruin my enjoyment of the game.


Even considering that, I agree it should be fixed as soon as possible. Maintaining the 'status quo' of unenjoyable play that people opted into is better than thrusting a different group into unenjoyable play against their wishes.

Favorite Hero: Computer (Empathy/Energy Blast Defender)

Favorite Villain: Gimp Computer (Fire Control/Psionic Assault Dominator)

 

Posted

I can't help but chuckle when I see people gripe about KB because of melee. A vast majority of the KB I have seen in recent teams comes from melee ATs. I really think the answer may be, instead of removing or reducing KB, to add a damage component to it. It would require extensive work on the physics calculations though. How much additional damage should be applied if you slam someone into a wall? How about a crate? How about a floor? Is it different if the floor is carpeted or cement? How about slamming them into the ground covered with snow?

A lot of that could be simplified by not taking so many variables into account, but you would still want to take some things into consideration. Distance and velocity are a bare minimum. Ideally, object type (if not material) would also be taken into account. Even better if said object is made destructible.

If this were done, instead of the endless debate as to whether KB is good or bad, it would be a discussion on the most effective ways to make use of it.

- Garielle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme View Post
I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".

 

Posted

Fix it back to what it was originally and give those who want to get rid of it the option to have Null the Gull eliminate their OWN kb.

Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!

 

Posted

This bug is annoying.

WHAT made the devs think pushing this half-issue through in its current state was a good idea? I expect the game to be in this sort of state on the test server when a patch is first put out - NOT when it's live. No, live's not perfect, but this is horrible overall. About the only thing they could do worse would be mark every zone and every player with "PVP on."

Wanted: Origin centric story arcs.
If you've only played an AT once (one set combo) and "hate" it - don't give up. Roll a different combo. It may just be those sets not clicking for you.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormbird View Post
WHAT made the devs think pushing this half-issue through in its current state was a good idea?
I suspect it has something to do with the suits wanting Media Blitz pushed live before the Player Summit no matter what the actual working state of the issue was. Damned suits.

Final Straw, DM/Regen Scrapper
Solari, Fire/Fire Blaster
Real Americana, MA/SR Scrapper
Task Force Timmy, Grav/Rad Controller
Astral Paragon, Spines/Regen Scrapper
Mr Drama King, Katana/Regen Scrapper
Psi-Stunner, Psi/Mental Blaster

 

Posted

Sounds like I'll be rolling a Storm/Energy today

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazingMOO View Post
The really, really sad part as that this was being cheered by many meleers.

(Really, guys. That hurts! Do Energy Blasters, Stormies, and FF Defenders cheer when you're nefed, accidentally or not?)
I play a Stormie, I suggested Null let us turn off knockback, and I meant it. I'm THRILLED about this bug on my Stormy, because I like to team, and knockdown is a thousand times better than KB - it puts people on the ground and not-shooting me without blasting them out of range of my meleers. When I throw people away from the tank, out of his aura and punchvoke, guess who gets that aggro? Me. If I put him on the ground, so he can't shoot but he's still in the tank's aggro? I'm DOWN WITH THAT!

I love the idea of being able to turn all my KB into KD with Null, and frankly I think if the meleers ask you to turn off your KB you should do it. Teaming is about what's good for the team, not just what's amusing (and it is!) to throw guys all over the place.

 

Posted

just noticed on my SS tanker that Knockout Blow barely lifts a target off the ground. Punch knocks them up higher.

Est sularis oth Mithas

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnabas View Post
just noticed on my SS tanker that Knockout Blow barely lifts a target off the ground. Punch knocks them up higher.
Knockdown is essentially low-mag Knockback, but I always thought Knockup (what knockout blow does) was a different effect altogether. If it is a different effect, and both effects have had a decimal in the mag displaced, then that seems way too coincidental to be an accident.

...not that I'm complainin'

 

Posted

It's apparently inconsistent. My Scrapper's Disembowel seems to knock foes up just fine, at least foes in iTrials I was running last night. But I've seen the complaint about KoB several times.

I would be annoyed if Disembowel didn't at least knock them over. (I wouldn't care a ton if it didn't also lift them 8' in the air, but I don't usually mind that it does.)

Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
Went to PI and tried this out with my Peacebringer. Not going to lie, really enjoyed the character for the first time. But this is clearly a bug and should be fixed.
Oh my...I love this! Solar Flare works perfectly now!

I would really, really like this as an option.

Member of:
Repeat Offenders Network - The Largest Coalition Network in the Game, across Virtue, Freedom, Justice and Exalted. Open to all, check us out.

Current Team Project: Pending

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feycat View Post
I play a Stormie, I suggested Null let us turn off knockback, and I meant it. I'm THRILLED about this bug on my Stormy, because I like to team, and knockdown is a thousand times better than KB - it puts people on the ground and not-shooting me without blasting them out of range of my meleers. When I throw people away from the tank, out of his aura and punchvoke, guess who gets that aggro? Me. If I put him on the ground, so he can't shoot but he's still in the tank's aggro? I'm DOWN WITH THAT!

I love the idea of being able to turn all my KB into KD with Null, and frankly I think if the meleers ask you to turn off your KB you should do it. Teaming is about what's good for the team, not just what's amusing (and it is!) to throw guys all over the place.
Yes, yes please.

For those against, why would it being optional for me ruin your fun? The arguement is that people would try and force you to change your option to knockdown. You already have the choice to use knockback or not. Team with those that are like minded. If you prefer to knock stuff around, form a team based on it. That's what we have already been doing for years.

I know my Energy Blaster would love the option, as half of the teams she is on, I find myself fighting against the team synergy. Do I use Explosive Blast, or not? Yes, it looks awesome, and feels awesome, but sometimes it's better to skip using it rather than scattering the mobs off of the /Invul or /WP Tank/Brute/Scrapper.

This would at least give options to those of us who prefer knockdown to knockback.

Member of:
Repeat Offenders Network - The Largest Coalition Network in the Game, across Virtue, Freedom, Justice and Exalted. Open to all, check us out.

Current Team Project: Pending

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrotron_RO View Post
Oh my...I love this! Solar Flare works perfectly now!

I would really, really like this as an option.
Heh, my Solar Flare still does a bit too much KB if I'm in the exact center of a Spawn - but it's Light Years better that it was.

Sadly, this is clearly an unforseen bug. In one of the Patch feedback threads, Zwillinger, when he noticed mention of the KB bug, asked for confirmation and got it from several posters, and said he'd foward it. So, enjoy it while it last, -KD lovin' boys and girls - cuz me thinks it's not long for this superhero earth.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socorro View Post
Heh, my Solar Flare still does a bit too much KB if I'm in the exact center of a Spawn - but it's Light Years better that it was.

Sadly, this is clearly an unforseen bug. In one of the Patch feedback threads, Zwillinger, when he noticed mention of the KB bug, asked for confirmation and got it from several posters, and said he'd foward it. So, enjoy it while it last, -KD lovin' boys and girls - cuz me thinks it's not long for this superhero earth.
It feels like they just gave a static knockback resistance to all mobs, probably as an idea based on recent threads. Though my guess could be wrong.

Member of:
Repeat Offenders Network - The Largest Coalition Network in the Game, across Virtue, Freedom, Justice and Exalted. Open to all, check us out.

Current Team Project: Pending

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrotron_RO View Post
It feels like they just gave a static knockback resistance to all mobs, probably as an idea based on recent threads. Though my guess could be wrong.
I read that a decimal got misplaced on the KB mag calculator or somethin', so it's like all KB powers are 1/10 mag of what they used to be. That's likely more speculation though...

 

Posted

Just for the record, I enjoy KB. It's fun, and awesome in the right situation.

It's just...every situation isn't the right situation, which is why I support an option.

Member of:
Repeat Offenders Network - The Largest Coalition Network in the Game, across Virtue, Freedom, Justice and Exalted. Open to all, check us out.

Current Team Project: Pending

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Cavalier View Post
Sounds like I'll be rolling a Storm/Energy today
Great, yours can replace mine, which won't see action again unless and until this is fixed.

While I'm happy for those of you who hate kb and find this preferable, it's a hell of a thing, for those of us who have been playing for years with it working as intended and who liked it that way, to suddenly have knockback turn into nudgeback.

Virtue
Angel Witch II - Chord of Souls - Storm Witch II - Princess of the Dawn - Standing Horse - Witch of Xymox
Silent Scream - Shadow Witch II - Liquid Serenade - Nebulous Dawn - Ghost Witch II -Xiberia

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socorro View Post
Knockdown is essentially low-mag Knockback, but I always thought Knockup (what knockout blow does) was a different effect altogether. If it is a different effect, and both effects have had a decimal in the mag displaced, then that seems way too coincidental to be an accident.

...not that I'm complainin'
KnockUp is just Knockback aimed at a different angle (i.e. UP).

The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrotron_RO View Post
For those against, why would it being optional for me ruin your fun? The arguement is that people would try and force you to change your option to knockdown. You already have the choice to use knockback or not. Team with those that are like minded. If you prefer to knock stuff around, form a team based on it. That's what we have already been doing for years.
There's a thread on this in the AT & Powers forum. Basically, some folks have latched onto dev posts about some powers, at least, which have KB being considered a balancing factor against their other stats. The perception of actual disadvantage of knocking or spraying foes around is considered on some (but probably only some) powers. These posters believe that either an option to suppress KD simply will not be allowed by the devs, and/or that other posters should not be allowed to campagin for it unchallenged, because it would be unbalanced if it was granted.

Note that I do not hold this position. I am simply explaining it as I understand it.

Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazingMOO View Post
Of the many bugs plaguing this release of CoH, the one that makes me the saddest is the Knockback bug.

It appears that someone dropped a decimal point when figuring knockback, causing all knockback to be scaled down to (almost, but not quite) zilch.

The really, really sad part as that this was being cheered by many meleers.
Damn straight its being cheered by meleers. Maybe until it gets fixed, my melee people will be more interested in teaming. Right now they're pretty 'meh" about it. Not to mention this is a pretty sweet "HA-HA!" to every Storm person out there who bleepin' REFUSES to turn off Hurricane. Invalidated, and it feels so good!

Not to mention if it stayed permanent, I might actually roll some sets I've avoided till now, because I know incessant KB is annoying to teammates.

 

Posted

After almost 6 years of playing this game, I still don't understand why melee players hate when targets get knocked back by other teammates.

You are on the same team. Does it really matter who does the defeating? Let the ranged characters take care of the foes out of your range. That's what they're there for. Just move on to the next one.

My main is an energy blaster, and I also have a PB. Knockback is great. I team with them all the time, and ne'er a complaint about it.


I echo the comments that allowing individuals to turn off KB would do nothing for teams, unless you managed to find an entire team where everyone had it turned off. That's a step in the wrong direction, back to the days of "R U Healorz?" If you solo exclusively and can't handle your own KB, perhaps that powerset isn't for you.

Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash View Post
After almost 6 years of playing this game, I still don't understand why melee players hate when targets get knocked back by other teammates.
I play a lot of melee. I'll see if I can sum it up, at least as I see it.

It's mostly that 90% of any given melee character's contribution happens within 7 feet of the spawn. They don't get to stand back and shoot, they have to move to each mob individually and then start hitting. When you can only get one hit in before your target is sent flying out of your range, that gets old pretty fast.

Quote:
You are on the same team. Does it really matter who does the defeating?
Not in the slightest. But I want to at least feel like I'm contributing, rather than just running to catch up to the enemy all the time, only to land one hit and then have to start running again.

Quote:
Let the ranged characters take care of the foes out of your range. That's what they're there for. Just move on to the next one.
And when they follow this logic, or any hint of a plan at all for that matter, things go very well. But not every player will put their teammates' enjoyment ahead of their own desire to be the team's MVP, and many just get lost in the heat of battle and stop thinking altogether.

Quote:
My main is an energy blaster, and I also have a PB. Knockback is great. I team with them all the time, and ne'er a complaint about it.
Knockback is great, I agree. Lots of people know how to use it without it disrupting their teammates' contributions. If everyone knew how to, there'd be no argument over it.

Quote:
I echo the comments that allowing individuals to turn off KB would do nothing for teams, unless you managed to find an entire team where everyone had it turned off. That's a step in the wrong direction, back to the days of "R U Healorz?"
Complete agreement here

Quote:
If you solo exclusively and can't handle your own KB, perhaps that powerset isn't for you.
Also entirely true. Though not part of the "KB on a team" argument, obviously.

So, yeah. That's my take.