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Apparently I've been doing it wrong. <.<
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
And all the new mid-level content is built for teams.
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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Ok, where does it say that the new mid-level content is team focused? The contacts for the missions I've done sure as heck don't say "by the way, you may want a team for this" and none of them require a team (like the true team-required content).|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
And all the new mid-level content is built for teams. Your point?
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In fact I would go so far as to say that most of the new story arcs are designed for soloing, not teams. The various Atlas and Mercy revamp arcs as well as the Praetorian arcs all seem to me to be written primarily for a soloist (I realize they are low level, not mid level but they are a good example).
The new 20-29 arcs are another good example. While they can be played by teams the stories are really single-character oriented. Dean McArthur and Leonard are particularly good examples, the stories in their arcs are written assuming a solo character.
The other side of it is arc quality. The newer arcs are better than the older stuff (at least mechanically, the quality of the story is more variable) so encouraging new players to run it seems like a good idea.
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Come on. Even the original poster's wife isn't soloing. I team from level 1, except in Praetoria. No one seems to be there. Given the constant stream of Death From Below trials announced on the help channel (even on a server like Triumph), I don't think the lack of teaming is a problem. |
Do free players have fewer options for finding teams than premium/VIP players? Yes.
Does having fewer options make it harder for them to get teams doing content they want to do? Yes (network effect, they are in contact with fewer players which decreases the chance of finding someone who is doing what they want)
If it is harder for them to get teams are they more likely to solo said content? Yes.
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You obviously have never been to Dicks Last Resort. A small national chain of restaurants where the staff is hired to be rude and insulting to the customers. |
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
A similar coffee shop that had grumpy clerks with a "you didnt pay much don't expect much" attitude would not be getting my dollar. -and I just order black coffee. ever. always.
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Another popular business I've seen on TV is the Weiner Circle where the staff yells and curses at the customers.
And I saw another packed place on the Food Network where the wait staff was rude and threw things like dinner rolls and napkins at the customers when they asked for them.
Bottom line:
The pure "F2P" player is running a demo. It is an extended demo, but a demo none the less. $5 to unlock some of the features isn't too much. If it is too much for the player, then the game is likely better off without the player.
If a free player really wanted to earn a lot of influence from the market, the options are there:
160 Paragon Points (USD $2) for 30 days of the auction house.
160 Paragon Points (USD $2) for 30 days of the invention system
That is 320 of the 400 Paragon points for $5.
The player can buy auto-levelling enhancements from the market if they wanted and never have to worry about the enhancements "going red".
My advice: Stop treating F2P as anything other than a demo, because I'm positive that the development team is looking primarily at subscribers for their ongoing revenue.
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The last time I was at one of those (10 years ago), the food was pretty good for the price.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
You obviously have never been to Dicks Last Resort. A small national chain of restaurants where the staff is hired to be rude and insulting to the customers.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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I'll stop treating it as anything other than a demo when the marketing team starts marketing it as "Just a Demo."|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Bottom line:
My advice: Stop treating F2P as anything other than a demo, because I'm positive that the development team is looking primarily at subscribers for their ongoing revenue. |
Seriously though, I understand that it is a moneymaking operation. I do not have a government job and have always worked with business managers and small business owners.
What I am saying is try to lure your potential customers with coolness and a great desire for more of your products. Don't be a Bakery that gives out samples of day old bread.
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What the bakery does is crumble up the day old bread, sprinkle some herbs on it and bake it again til it's crisp then repackages it in a dozen or so bags and sell each bag as croutons for five times the price.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Don't be a Bakery that gives out samples of day old bread.
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At this point the thread seems to be getting very repetitive. Again, my wife's problem is solved. Thank you for the suggestions. I am not going to try to sell a hardened audience on business strategies for no RMT incentive. (That's my way of saying I normally get paid for this advice, specifically not a recommendation for violating EULA which a few determined souls continuously try to inject into this thread.) So, good luck to all of you in the cities. My last thought is to remember this, if you invite someone to give City of... a try make sure you e-mail them some cash so that at least one problem is resolved. Or, i guess, talk them into turning off experience for a few days while they grind some farms/story arcs in the twenties.
Some of my best SDCC memories are from Dick's Last Resort.
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I got it. The cap isn't your problem: it's the earning power of a character from lvl 1 - 50.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Okay, hopefully for the last time. I never ever ever brought up 25 mil. I am not for raising that number. I don't even know what that number pertains to, and honestly, I do not care. it has absolutely, positively NOTHING to do with this conversation. Start your own 25 mil thread. Enjoy.
As a guy who has been playing 4+ years. Before I started figuring out how to flip money to myself thru the market in the bad old days there were many times where I had trouble coming up with cash for SOs, and this was wit selling drops thru the market istead of at stores. So, two possibilities. 1) Either you are really just a much smurfier player than me. Or, B) It can be really really hard for a person to buy SOs for their character at times. |
Eh, it gets sticky at times, I'll give ya that. But what else is a F2P character going to spend Inf on, besides costume changes at Icon (or a trainer now, apparently, whatever sense that makes
). Other than that, I can't think of any other Influence sinks for a F2P player, with access to Sgs locked out (the old Inf > Prestige sink) and no inherent access to the Markets (without paying at least $2 a month).Is it tricky pre lvl 30? A little, but IIRC, I rarely had any enhancements go completely red on me for a lengthy duration. Yellow? Maybe, but I was still able to play the game at a reasonable rate.
I think with the modern conveniences of making money easy from IO-related drops, many players have become accustomed to starting characters out with gobs of Inf, updating every Enhancements when they dip the slightest in effectiveness, and have forgotten that you can actually play this game from 1-50 without anything but the Influence earned along the way (and selling any dropped Enhancements that your character can't use).
In short, I think you're underestimating the earning potential of a F2P toon, B_C.
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WRONG!|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
For those of you who are trying to compare your experience rationally to the experience of people we are trying to market to in today's game market, please take a moment to consider carefully. You are hardcore gamers. By definition.
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I am comparing my experience AS A NEW PLAYER to the experience of new players. I was NOT a hardcore gamer. This is the first online game I ever played. The only games I had on my computer previously were mah jongg, the Myst series and whatever came built into Windows.
If you haven't been playing since before the market existed, then my take on this situation is a hell of a lot more valid than yours.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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You know, it WAS completely possible to outfit your character completely in SOs before the Auction House was added to the game back in Issue 9... Here's your sign back. |
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Seriously, the Devs have said for years the game was designed around SOs, then they develop a system where new people they are marketing to cannot buy SOs. Doh! Here's your sign.
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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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Actually, I think it's disempowering to automatically start giving new players funds. Give them some time in the game, then ASK if they are having money problems.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
My last thought is to remember this, if you invite someone to give City of... a try make sure you e-mail them some cash so that at least one problem is resolved. Or, i guess, talk them into turning off experience for a few days while they grind some farms/story arcs in the twenties.
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On the other hand, some people will be hesitant to ask for money, even if you are offering. I usually get to it in a roundabout manner, asking what drops they've gotten, how much inf they have etc. If they comment that they have a particular goal and are about half-way there, now you know how much they can use. And they have had the opportunity to learn that aspect of the game, how to gain inf, etc before someone starts throwing money at them.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
WRONG!
I am comparing my experience AS A NEW PLAYER to the experience of new players. I was NOT a hardcore gamer. This is the first online game I ever played. The only games I had on my computer previously were mah jongg, the Myst series and whatever came built into Windows. If you haven't been playing since before the market existed, then my take on this situation is a hell of a lot more valid than yours. |
You do realize you have 16.907 posts on the community boards of the game website, right?
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Which proves he's not a hardcore gamer because he spends more time on the forums than he does playing the game. |
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
You do realize you have 16.907 posts on the community boards of the game website, right?
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Edit: By the way you do realize that when you start using another persons post counts as a part of your defense you are admitting that even you don't believe your own position.
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Also see "tsundere cafe".
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
You obviously have never been to Dicks Last Resort. A small national chain of restaurants where the staff is hired to be rude and insulting to the customers.
Another popular business I've seen on TV is the Weiner Circle where the staff yells and curses at the customers. And I saw another packed place on the Food Network where the wait staff was rude and threw things like dinner rolls and napkins at the customers when they asked for them. |
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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You do realize he said he was not a hardcore gamer when he was new? His current post count is completely irrelevant.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
You do realize you have 16.907 posts on the community boards of the game website, right?
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
a try make sure you e-mail them some cash so that at least one problem is resolved. Or, i guess, talk them into turning off experience for a few days while they grind some farms/story arcs in the twenties.
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Or tell them to stop being cheap and pony up a few Abes for the game if they enjoy it. Salvage and market solve the inf problem.
(Or I assume they do. It's honestly been a while since I've tried to level a toon with just the resources it generates. But drops do sell decently even at low levels.)
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Ironblade's post count when he was a new player was zero, if you want to compare his post count to his post content. But I don't think you actually READ his post content.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
You do realize you have 16.907 posts on the community boards of the game website, right?
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Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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This is patently false. It was not true on day 1 of launch, it is even less true now.| To be clear, the game does not drop enough Infamy/Influence for characters to buy DOs and SOs. |
When the game first launched, I would habitually perma-debt myself (deliberately jumping into large groups of purples to get killed until my debt limit was reached) because you couldn't turn off XP, leveling was (and remains) way too fast, and it was (and is) too easy to outlevel missions, task forces, etc.
Even permadebted (and you could get debt before level 10 then), the leveling speed was blisteringly fast, but the influence piled up like crazy. When I go enhancements I didn't need, I sold them to the right vendor. Yes, it takes an extra minute or three running around steel canyon to hit the right store for selling DOs, but the extra inf was worth it.
With all of my characters, I was easily able to afford a full switch out to DOs and SOs at 12 and 22. After 25, influence just piles up like mad, and it becomes a total non-issue.
Today? Even without all the other influence making methods like Wentworths or Architect farming, you have the sewer trial. The sewer trial makes GOBS of cash. Especially if you sell the SOs you get instead of slotting them. You don't need all that many at low levels, and you get 5 per run. With a retail price of about 3k each, every run of the sewers is 15k influence just in drops. That's not even counting all that you get from killing things (and completing each stage gives another 1100 or so). I did the sewer trial 4 times with a new character to get all of the hydra powers, and by level 9 had fully slotted SOs in my (relevant..I didn't bother slotting Sprint) powers and 125,000 influence.
Great Wall of Prophecy, reveal to us God's will that we may blindly obey.
Free us from thought and responsibility
We shall read things off of you.
Then do them
Your words guide us.
We're dumb
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I think you're greatly exaggerating the issue. Your wife will earn inf as she plays and levels. Just don't bother with TOs as they're not worth the cash and make sure to sell all your drops. If you just play-level you should get enough money to replace most your stuff when it expires. At least that's how us old timers did it back in the day, when there weren't any of them fancy inventions or markets or email. Now get of my lawn!
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Not sure what this has to do with free players being unable to afford what the Devs have stated for years the game is designed around. I am fully for Freebie players getting squat until they purchase something, anything. However, for them to not actually be able to play the game? Wow, bonehead marketing move of the first order. (and I've seen some doozies.)
To me, this is the first I have heard that really shows that "Free to Play" is a gigantic lie. You can play for free, for life. Of course, we balanced the entire game around stuff you cannot afford if you play free. Good Luck after 20th level my free playing friend! It would have been a lot smarter to entice customers to move from free to premium. Forcing people to buy stuff while telling them they have a choice is a decision right up there with netFlix's recent series of brilliant ideas. This could be fixed in a number of ways. I know the Devs are crazy busy. Changing the rewards multiplier for basic ind drops sounds onerous, but may be simple. They could either lower the price of SOs so that Free players can afford them on what inf drops normally. Or they could have contacts just give the things away as rewards for completing arcs or something. But I actually expect no changes to occur. i am sure this is not on anyone's radar at CoX's offices. About the only thing I truly expect to happen with this issue is for this thread to disappear in 5.67 seconds and me getting a msg in my in box saying "don't do that" |
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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No **** Sherlock! You keep painting this problem that doesn't exist and ignore the advice that would alleviate the issue.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
At this point the thread seems to be getting very repetitive.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
My last thought is to remember this, if you invite someone to give City of... a try make sure you e-mail them some cash so that at least one problem is resolved. Or, i guess, talk them into turning off experience for a few days while they grind some farms/story arcs in the twenties.
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This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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Thank you. I think I'm going to make a project of this and run a completely new character to 50 (or some appreciable level) doing nothing but running normal content and selling enhancement drops, exactly as a Free player would. I won't take any influence from another character and will ignore invention drops. I haven't done it in a long time but I'm sure it's exactly how I remember it.|
Originally Posted by Frostbiter
A purely free player doesn't get the drops at all.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
My last thought is to remember this, if you invite someone to give City of... a try make sure you e-mail them some cash so that at least one problem is resolved.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Edit: By the way you do realize that when you start using another persons post counts as a part of your defense you are admitting that even you don't believe your own position.
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Main Character: Ice/Storm/Ice Controller (Justice, 1340 badges)
if anyone has not read the Paragon rewards page here it is (hopes copied like properly)
http://na.cityofheroes.com/en/commun...on_rewards.php
everyone is enrolled in the Paragon Rewards system free or ViP once you get your first token and place in in the teir 2 slot you can trade, join SG's and play AE mission arcs. teir 4 you can sell at the auction house. please have look start at teir 1 and go through the various teirs to see at which lvl many things unlock. (will need to use the simulator for this) all this without paying.
If your gonna play follow the leader just make sure the leader is taking you where you want to go.
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Sorry, I guess?|
Originally Posted by The_Spad_EU
Please stop spelling it "enchancement", it's "enhancement",
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Originally Posted by Obsidius
Some of my best SDCC memories are from Dick's Last Resort.
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You do realize this post casts doubt on your ability to read, right?|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
You do realize you have 16.907 posts on the community boards of the game website, right?
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I said I was comparing myself as a new player to current new players. This was my first online game, my first MMO, etc.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
I just SO'd a level bumped toon on Beta, a Titan Weapon / Willpower scrapper. I emailed him 5 million and it cost me almost exactly that much to buy a complete set of SO's from the Quartermaster in RWZ.