"Null the Gull, please supress knockback in my powers"

For some reason I seem compelled to make a reply here that pretty much sums up everything that's been said here.


FOR SOME PEOPLE - KB is not ideal, it's detrimental to their play. For example my katana/regen scrapper loves zipping from target to target and unloading her attack chain, what I do not like is my target being violently shoved miles away with no effect other than inconveiniencing me to moving to them AGAIN. She's a ninja for christs sake, I've spent so long learning the aoe cones of her attacks that I can optimally position myself in one jump and just unload, only the amount of times I've had my "muscle memory" put to shame by someone scattering my nice and tight little mob is more often than people seem to be implying here.

FOR THE OTHER PEOPLE - Yes KB is a good mitigation technique. Yes it is fun. Yes it is thematic and gives that "WOAARR POWERFUL" feeling...sometimes.... It does mean you can mitigate a lot more damage than KD because they spend more time flying through the air and getting up again.


FOR YOU ALL - JESUS CHRIST 10 NON STOP PAGES OF ARGUING BACK AND FORTH, GROW UP. He's suggesting an option that benefits ALL OF THE ABOVE GROUPS. You like knockback? DON'T TAKE THE OPTION. You don't like your knockback? TAKE THE OPTION.

OH GOD IT'S SO VERY HARD TO CONTEMPLATE AND UNDERSTAND.



Honestly if I actually did like knockback on my characters and someone told me to turn it off they'd get put on the /ignore list and never teamed with again, because clearly they can't stand someone to play in another way. But I don't like knockback. I actually AVOID knockback inclusive sets no matter how thematically fitting they may be to a character of mine. And it isn't too hard to apply this in game, simply make an enduranceless toggle power that does -10000% knockback enhancement. You'll still have that blessed 0.01 to do knockdown, everyone in your I HATE KB team will be happy. And for solo or teams that have no qualms with you flinging mobs around like footballs, it's just a toggle, turn it off.

WHY would you be so opposed to this option when it offers more of what makes this game so special - customisation.

The funny thing is, if a set or power with KB is balanced now and would be overpowered if it were changed to KD, that means the inconvenience of KB is a balancing tool. That is to say, undesirable.

I thought KB was supposed to be a good thing according to those who are against the option to turn off KB?

The thing that many people have been trying to express is that while it's true that spreading things around with KB is bad if all you care about is reward per time, it's not only bad. It has helpful applications as well. The reason I don't want to see it removed is because I prefer the diversity of gameplay that it offers to the homogeneity that would be left in Null's poop-encrusted wake if it, and everything else anyone could come up with a reason to dislike, were made "optional."

That homogeneity is contingent upon every single person taking the option to turn their KB off. This thread alone demonstrates that not everyone will.

I also don't want Claws to get nerfed into oblivion to make up for the fact that shockwave would suddenly be the best aoe attack in the game by a huge margin.

I was being completely facetious.

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Originally Posted by rsclark All those people in groups who used to request NOT to be speed boosted now no longer request that. Because of that, they attack faster and have more end. The change had a major affect on game balance.

The reason they allowed the speed boost movement toggle was so that they could make it a taoe buff. I don't think we have any reason to assume that they would have added Null if they hadn't been planning on that giant QoL improvement for ally buffs in general.

Okay I'm working from memory here because city of data is down, but you're saying you don't see any balance problems with an attack that has a 100% chance for knockdown, recharges in 11.2 seconds, costs basically no endurance, does scale 1.14 damage (more for brutes), animates in one second, and hits ten targets in a massive cone? Are you sure you want to claim this? A high recharge build will have shockwave up again before the enemies have finished their standing up animation. Super balanced!

Since Silas brought it up, let's look at super strength. Now in addition to foot stomp, a power which most people would say is already far outside the realm of balance with its enormous radius and high chance for knockdown, it would have a (iirc) 20 second recharge guaranteed knockdown mag 3 stun for basically no endurance with a huge radius. So, it's like Fault but even better and requires less thought. Wow, what's unbalanced about that in a set that already outshines stone melee in every measurable way?

To put it another way, you're demanding huge nerfs for one set that doesn't deserve it and one set that does deserve it but is so popular the devs would be insane to comply.

a QR before i head off to bed.

I'm probably in the middle of the road on the knockback issue. Depending on what toon i'm playing, it can either be a tad annoying, or doesn't bother me much at all. So, an option to lessen/eliminate KB would have little impact on my play experience.

But, and I'm pretty sure this was mentioned up thread, the potential problem I see with this being made a "Gull" option, could be the potential grief and/or kicks people could get by NOT utilizing said option. And let's be honest here. It CAN and WOULD happen. Not saying that anyone here on forum would be among those numbers, at least on the giving end of the equation, but we know that someone in-game WILL. Quite possibly a good number of someones.

At that point, said "option" becomes less of an "option" and more of a requirement for teaming. How widespread among the population of the game that condition would be is certainly up for speculation, but the fact remains...if people know the option is available, they'll expect you to make use of it or go somewhere else.

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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe ::looks at RaikenX's signature:: Something funny.

Deus, it's getting a little sad how quickly you resort to shrill-voiced pantomime the second you worry your position may be untenable.

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Originally Posted by rsclark And that in what way changes the fact that it was a large buff to the power, which you earlier said it was not?

Letting people turn off speed boost's movement buff is not a buff to speed boost. I never said that and I will never say it because it's silly. Speed boost is more powerful when you receive its entire buff. The fact that some people don't understand that and dislike the movement portion shows that some people wouldn't know a good thing if it bit them on the rear. I have never even contemplated turning off the movement buff of speed boost because I long ago took the time to understand and take advantage of its value.

PleaseRecycle, what percentage of teams do you think would ban you if you don't have your KB turned off, should such an option exist? Most teams? half? 10 Percent?

Just your best guesstimate will be fine.

Here's the thing, Socorro. This will be something like the sixth time I've said in this thread that I don't see people being griped at for knockback and I don't see people being kicked for knockback. So, now you're asking me to extrapolate my own non-experience of this non-phenomenon to a situation that will never happen in the first place. The cat is out of the bag. I've already revealed that the actual reason for asking for this option is the buffing of powers that it entails. Who cares whether people would be kicked from teams or not?

That's like asking whether people will be kicked from teams for not flipping the switch that makes them do a billion untyped damage with every attack once we convince the devs to add that feature.

Let me phrase this more constructively. If you want to argue for a knockback toggle, you have to provide a solution to the very real balance problems that this would introduce. Right now every set that has knockback in it is balanced around having knockback. You don't get to just take that away and pretend it makes no difference because you know it does make a difference, I know it does make a difference, and the devs know it does make a difference. So, what's your solution?