If Tankers got Regen

Why not make Regen the only AT in the game that does not recieve debt, im just taking this to the next lvl what someone said earlier.

OK I'm going to jump backwards from the resurection idea because there are too many complications and just recommend one "tiny" change, only for Tanker regeneration:

Remove Instant Healing.

Add a taunt aura that adds 10% HP for the first foe, and 4% for each additional foe, up to 10 total foes.

Make both values half enhanceable only.

With all SOs that will get you to 73.75% HP buff.
Thats the equivalent to 42.4% resistance to all damage types, still leaves room for buffing and dullpain to be useful on top of it making other HP buffs still useful.

Against one foe, you would be at 20.65% +HP, equivalent of 17.1% resistance, meaning the power would not be insanely strong against AVs, but those are rare enough for you to use your Dull pain against. That on top of AVs usually spawning with companions that can feed your survivability during the alpha stage.

It would serve as taunt aura, scaling effect, feels thematic since you are messing with HP instead of resist, and its distinct from Willpower's RttC.

Don't misunderstand me, I completely get why you posted your DP idea for Tankers because of the AT mod issues. I also don't necessarily have any issues with changing sets in ways to fit the AT using it better, or in this case, more equally suited for the AT. It'd be just nice if there were ways to adopt changes that were applicable across the ATs that use a set. Which may not be possible in this instance.

But what if a change were made that allowed Tankers to tank with regen, but that change were applied to the other ATs which in turn increased their survivability by some degree. Tankers would now be able to do their job, the set would play the same for the other ATs (for the most part all things considered). Or is the very idea that Scrappers, Brutes, and Stalkers become more survivable under regen even if the change to Tankers wasn't equal due to mods, but enough to allow them to Tank, an undesireble scenario?

This thread seems to vary between "it is possible with pools and IOs to make regen into a good tank" to "a tanker needs to be able to survive an alpha and regen cannot".

But this debate can only be useful if you actually agree on what you are debating about. Otherwise, and that seems to be the thread so far, you are alternating replies about different points which are unrelated to one another except they contain the words "tanker" and "regen".

Of course we can say nothing is required, it could be useless and the devs could put it in the game. Or we don't want to lock sets into roles, defenders are not healers, tankers do not have to absorb attacks, etc. Tankers can team or solo (I mostly solo my dark/dark tanker for instance).

But tankers defined role is to be tougher than a scrapper and able to tank for a team. Now teams can be large or small, have buffers or not. Have an ice/ controller who's ice slick eliminates the alpha, or whatever. But for the sake of argument a standard of what a tanker is expected to be able to do by a random player who selects tanker and selects a primary based on the short description in the character generator is required.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville As to Regen tanks, the old school requirement on tankers is that starting around the early twenties, they have to be capable of tanking for a team of four on standard difficulty without significant ally assistance when slotted with SOs. If they can't for the vast majority of standard content, there's a potential balance issue.

This seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable definition of the expectation for a tanker. To go a bit further and define what tanking for a team of 4 means:
1. They take the alpha strike
2. They maintain the aggro of most/all of the enemies
3. They do not get knocked unconscious or otherwise rendered helpless (unless they can do it and still manage 1&2)

And then it comes down to 2 questions:
1. Would the Brute version of Regen ported over to tankers as is make for a good tanker primary.
2. What would need to be done to Regen to make it a good tanker primary

dug, read up thread a bit. Arcana provides a rough description of what's expected of Tankers at a given range within the game and even goes so far as to state how close to that edge a regen tanker would be.

She also stated the issue here is that yes, Tankers should be tougher than either Scrappers or Brutes, and usually, when we look at ported sets, the Tanker modifier for things such as resistance and defense automatically assists in that area. But either the modifier for regen is the same for Tankers as its for the other melee ATs or that how regen works is the same for all. Even though regeneration works off of hit points (the more you have, the higher the regen rate) and Tankers have a higher hp pool, the amount of regen still isn't enough (apparently).

The idea that IOs / pool powers make the set work better has pretty much gone to the way side early on in the thread. It's a given that adding powers, using set buffs makes sets work better, that's the design of the game. Now the issue is, what changes for Regen are necessary to make Tankers able to perform well enough to tank with the set.

Regen can't do this... regen can't do that... blahblahblah...

Having played very little regen, my humble suggestion:

1. Make fast healing have a +hit point in it like High Pain Tolerance. That will benefit all of the other regen as well as giving padding.

2. swap Reconstruction and Dull Pain (so you can get Dull Pain at level 1).

You have more hit points. You use Dull Pain for additional padding to take the alpha. Then you steal underwear.

Thought I would chime in with my suggestion on adapting the set for Tankers. Briefly:

- Add a small S/L resistance boost to reconstruction, designed to stack with Resilience
- Remove MoG entirely; it runs somewhat counter to Tanker playstyle
- Push Instant Healing to Tier 9; it's more appropriate to Tankers as a GodMode power
- Put a Rise to the Challenge clone, with a nice thematic name, in the empty slot.

The RttC clone should partly address scalability issues, while the Reconstruction buff should take the edge off the lower levels; for extra credit, adding some defence debuff resistance to Resilience might be nice too: it would make IO set boosts more useful.