Earned Glory vs. Purchased Glory?
By
Afterimage,
Posted on: 2011-10-27 05:29 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Can someone remind me when having these costumes became so prestigious? I've never seen someone with one of these and thought: "what a shining example of a man, concealing the costume he spent hours designing! I wish I could be him."
And anyone who thinks highly of themselves because they got the con codes and other people didn't needs to get their priorities straight on what counts as an actual personal achievement.
Also, I live in Australia and thus can never get the costumes via cons, and if I could, hell I'd probably just enjoy the con! Maybe bust out the PPD Hardsuit while I'm waiting for a team to fill and think nothing more of it.
Also, people can get 14-day versions of these during Halloween...without spending ANY money! DOOM!
ALSO, they cancel stalker stealth, which is prety lame.
Quote:
I lead you to the following thread.| Can someone remind me when having these costumes became so prestigious? I've never seen someone with one of these and thought: "what a shining example of a man, concealing the costume he spent hours designing! I wish I could be him." |
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=269084
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
Quote:
This is the sort of stuff I'm talking about. You work so hard for so long to achieve something and just when you get it they lower the standard.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Your elitist concept of "earned glory" versus "purchased glory" might apply to something like being upset that the Zookeeper badge was reduced from 10,000 Rikti monkeys to 1,000 Rikti monkeys. I could see where someone who had earned the 10,000 version badge might be a little upset that they wasted the time to get the extra 9,000 monkeys they didn't need anymore. Get over yourself with these silly notions... |
I guess I think of codes and such the same way. People have to be really devoted to go to a con and stand in line for hours waiting for them. Yes they paid to get there but it took devotion to do that.
As for the VIP digs. I felt the same about that. I've paid my account regulary for many years now whether I've had time to play or not. Yes, again, it does cost me money, but it takes devotion to maintain my accounts regularly. I thought the VIP statice was going to be a way to reward players who maintain their accounts regularly not just as a way to seperate the paying accounts from the free accounts. I just read more into it then there was ever going to be The first few days on Exaulted were so packed with great players it set my expectations for the server really high.
Good thing your all here to pull my head out of the clouds and make me feel like an idiot for voicing my opinion.
Quote:
What?|
Originally Posted by Norse Star
I guess I think of codes and such the same way. People have to be really devoted to go to a con and stand in line for hours waiting for them. Yes they paid to get there but it took devotion to do that. |
What part of 'devotion' has ANYTHING to do with 'having the time and enough money to go to a con'?!
Answer: None. Nada. Zilch.
You are seriously deluding yourself here.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
 |
Quote:
Yes, it's called the Paragon Rewards Program. Aka Veteran Rewards. |
Originally Posted by Norse Star
As for the VIP digs. I felt the same about that. I've paid my account regulary for many years now whether I've had time to play or not. Yes, again, it does cost me money, but it takes devotion to maintain my accounts regularly. I thought the VIP statice was going to be a way to reward players who maintain their accounts regularly not just as a way to seperate the paying accounts from the free accounts. I just read more into it then there was ever going to be The first few days on Exaulted were so packed with great players it set my expectations for the server really high.
|
And, once again, 'devotion' has absolutely sod all to do with 'having the money'. Some people simply cannot afford a monthly sub, or have other things they need to spend money on instead. That doesn't make them any less 'devoted', it just means they don't have as much spare income.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Norse Star
This is the sort of stuff I'm talking about. You work so hard for so long to achieve something and just when you get it they lower the standard.
I guess I think of codes and such the same way. People have to be really devoted to go to a con and stand in line for hours waiting for them. Yes they paid to get there but it took devotion to do that. As for the VIP digs. I felt the same about that. I've paid my account regulary for many years now whether I've had time to play or not. Yes, again, it does cost me money, but it takes devotion to maintain my accounts regularly. I thought the VIP statice was going to be a way to reward players who maintain their accounts regularly not just as a way to seperate the paying accounts from the free accounts. I just read more into it then there was ever going to be The first few days on Exaulted were so packed with great players it set my expectations for the server really high. Good thing your all here to pull my head out of the clouds and make me feel like an idiot for voicing my opinion. |
You made a post that a lot of people found offensive, and felt would be offensive to others. How did you think people who play a game called City of HEROES would react? They instantly jumped to the defense of themselves and others.
What baffles me is that people keep making insulting posts in the name of "Voicing their opinion" and then are offended when others let them know how they feel about it. Do you expect people to just roll over and ignore stuff like that? Or were you thinking that others agreed? I am just trying to get a handle on this.
Elitism is viewed very poorly by a great many people or participate on these boards. So all should be warned that when it is displayed people are going to be quick to rally against it.
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
Wow, I saw this title and I thought it was going to be a rant about the really awful Inf to Prestige conversion rates...
Then I found the original post quoted and I really wished it was a post about the really awful Inf to Prestige conversion rates.
"Life is what happens when you are making other plans"
This is my favorite line from the OP.
Quote:
and then he tries to stealth edit his original post from this|
Originally Posted by Norse Star
Good thing your all here to pull my head out of the clouds and make me feel like an idiot for voicing my opinion.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norse Star  Am I the only one a little disappointed with devs repeatedly offering "limited edition" content to the general game community for a fee? The most recent costumes available for purchase that were originally a special issue item given out at con events are really a disapointment. Yes, I too have always wanted them, but it was way cooler to see them on somebody who earned them then somebody who just purchased them. This ties in with the whole VIP account thing. I was all excited about it when I thought you had to earn your way onto the server. I had visions of a server filled with experienced gamers. Little to no power leveling, no stupid questions, no smack talk, just awesomeness everywhere. Great teams, great people. Like it was way back. When I realized you could just buy into it I was really happy I didn't transfer anybody there. It's no different then any other server now. Somedays I think it has more newb's then all the other servers combined. -Disappointed |
to this
Quote:
|
Am I the only one a little disappointed with devs repeatedly offering "limited edition" content to the general game community for a fee? The simple answer was Yes. Yes you are the only one! |
Gotta love how the forums keep track of people editing their posts.
Quote:
| Last edited by Norse Star; Today at 08:03 AM. |
Quote:
Beautiful.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I think having a server you have to earn access to doesn't go far enough. I think there should be a server you are exiled to if you do enough stupid things to earn deportation. And every zone on this server is the Shadow Shard and everyone's travel power becomes superspeed.
Oh wait, was that my inside voice or my outside voice? |
And... seriously, it might be a plausible alternative to banning. Similar to the Corn Field.
Quote:
*sighs* Yeah, he really seems to be missing a few clues. i suspect he just runs to the end of each of life's missions and clicks the glowie without reading the text.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
This is my favorite line from the OP.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Gotta love how the forums keep track of people editing their posts. [/I] |
Considering that there have been rude, arrogant posterior headgarments since the day the game launched, and VIP is just the new term for subscriber, and a subscriber is anyone who is paying monthly regardless of how long they've been playing or how smart they are, i don't see how a subscriber only server would be any guarantee of player quality. Which in itself can be pretty subjective.
Quote:
| I guess I think of codes and such the same way. People have to be really devoted to go to a con and stand in line for hours waiting for them. Yes they paid to get there but it took devotion to do that. |
Quote:
| As for the VIP digs. I felt the same about that. I've paid my account regulary for many years now whether I've had time to play or not. Yes, again, it does cost me money, but it takes devotion to maintain my accounts regularly. I thought the VIP statice was going to be a way to reward players who maintain their accounts regularly not just as a way to seperate the paying accounts from the free accounts. I just read more into it then there was ever going to be The first few days on Exaulted were so packed with great players it set my expectations for the server really high. |
Not to mention i've met many players who have been subbed a few months at most who are amazing players and i know several players who have been subbed for over five years who are barely adequate at the game. Nice people, but don't really get it when it comes to how the game works. Also, i know of jerks who've been around since launch and they're still jerks. i generally don't team with them since i care most about whether a teammate is fun.
Seriously, to establish a server of only friendly, skilled players would require hiring several dozen employees to monitor combat and chat logs to evaluate each account on an individual basis. i suppose you could cut it down to each monitor only having to review several thousand accounts in depth if you gated it by requiring several years of sub time first, but it's still an absurd assumption. That, or you were thinking servercorn magic would handle it.
And if they added a requirement that Exalted players write clear, correct English it would be limited to maybe a few dozen people. For example, neither Arcanaville, you, or i would qualify. (Although i suspect they'd catch you on the friendly and helpful clause anyway.)
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Quote:
And that doesn't even take into consideration the players with multiple accounts, whose main account has been active for years but their secondary, tertiary, etc accounts haven't been active anywhere near as long. |
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Not to mention i've met many players who have been subbed a few months at most who are amazing players and i know several players who have been subbed for over five years who are barely adequate at the game. Nice people, but don't really get it when it comes to how the game works. Also, i know of jerks who've been around since launch and they're still jerks. i generally don't team with them since i care most about whether a teammate is fun.
|
And how many parents let their kids play a character on their accounts? I'm reminded of that cool thread about the 6 year old that pops up from time to time. That kids got a better grasp of what makes a good player than the OP.
Quote:
For the record the idea of the Devs selling items in the Paragon Market that were formerly only available to a tiny minority of players who were able to travel to a convention to get is in no way a "lowering" of any standard imaginable. There's a huge world of difference between things in-game that have been modified over time (like badge requirements) and people doing things in the real world like buying cross-country airline tickets or paying $15 a month to a MMO company.|
Originally Posted by Norse Star
This is the sort of stuff I'm talking about. You work so hard for so long to achieve something and just when you get it they lower the standard.
I guess I think of codes and such the same way. People have to be really devoted to go to a con and stand in line for hours waiting for them. Yes they paid to get there but it took devotion to do that. |
The belief that a person's subjective "devotion" to a game should be reflected in something you equate to "achieving" or "earning" as an in-game exclusive reward is an arguably misguided and elitist notion from the start. Being upset or disappointed that an oversight such as this is finally being corrected by the Devs is a troubling (and almost baffling) concept to me.
Until you can rationally tell us how a vanity costume code that I might buy from the Paragon Market for $6 is any better or worse than either a code someone got for free from a convention OR a code someone paid $50+ from eBay then you might have a leg to stand on here. My guess is that you're not going to be able to come up with a good case for this.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
Quote:
Interesting. I wonder if that derived from the Twilight Zone episode "It's a Good Life", where a child with godlike powers would "wish [people/things] away to the cornfield" if they displeased him. IMO, it was an extremely dark episode, even by original Twilight Zone standards.
|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
And... seriously, it might be a plausible alternative to banning. Similar to the Corn Field.
|
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
The wiki entry in the link says exactly that.
|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Interesting. I wonder if that derived from the Twilight Zone episode "It's a Good Life", where a child with godlike powers would "wish [people/things] away to the cornfield" if they displeased him. IMO, it was an extremely dark episode, even by original Twilight Zone standards.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Goddess luv. Arcanaville is a Goddess.
 |
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
I don't know how derailed the conversation has gotten, but as one who has 'earned' some of that Transformation Power 'glory' I'll toss in my two cents.
The only Transformation power I currently have is for the Freakshow Tank Smasher. I earned it not just being in the right place at the right time, but actually earned it as part of a Freakshow character background contest the Dev's sponsored here on these forums.
I was kinda giddy that I actually won it, but I'll tell you something right up front...
I don't care if anyone else has it; from a con, purchased in the store, or just because someone emailed them a free code just because they liked them. Don't care. In fact, if having it makes them happy, I'm happy for them. Maybe we can all league up, turn 'em on, and go buck wild through a zone just to mess with people's heads
Someone else having it for any other reason doesn't diminish how I got mine. Plus, I have more things in my life to feel accomplished with than a bit of digital fluff in an online game.
Without any desire to be snarky, but purely honest- If the exclusivity of a costume power in an MMO is worth getting upset over, I think one should re-evaluate one's priorities in life.
I'm really happy about how I got mine, but I don't ever want to limit anyone else from getting it either. Plus, with them currently on sale, I may buy one, so now I'm not limited either. They're a little pricy so I haven't decided yet. However, the PPD is very tempting...
"I play characters. I have to have a very strong visual appearance, backstory, name, etc. to get involved with a character, otherwise I simply won't play it very long. I'm not an RPer by any stretch of the imagination, but character concept is very important for me."- Back Alley Brawler
I couldn't agree more.
Quote:
I can't be bothered to explain how my superiority complex works to the likes of you. Peh!|
Originally Posted by Power Armour
And anyone who thinks highly of themselves because they got the con codes and other people didn't needs to get their priorities straight on what counts as an actual personal achievement.
|
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
Quote:
Pretty much this.|
Originally Posted by Lycantropus
I don't know how derailed the conversation has gotten, but as one who has 'earned' some of that Transformation Power 'glory' I'll toss in my two cents.
The only Transformation power I currently have is for the Freakshow Tank Smasher. I earned it not just being in the right place at the right time, but actually earned it as part of a Freakshow character background contest the Dev's sponsored here on these forums. I was kinda giddy that I actually won it, but I'll tell you something right up front... I don't care if anyone else has it; from a con, purchased in the store, or just because someone emailed them a free code just because they liked them. Don't care. In fact, if having it makes them happy, I'm happy for them. Maybe we can all league up, turn 'em on, and go buck wild through a zone just to mess with people's heads Someone else having it for any other reason doesn't diminish how I got mine. Plus, I have more things in my life to feel accomplished with than a bit of digital fluff in an online game. Without any desire to be snarky, but purely honest- If the exclusivity of a costume power in an MMO is worth getting upset over, I think one should re-evaluate one's priorities in life. I'm really happy about how I got mine, but I don't ever want to limit anyone else from getting it either. Plus, with them currently on sale, I may buy one, so now I'm not limited either. They're a little pricy so I haven't decided yet. However, the PPD is very tempting... |
i don't even begrudge people earning the Zookeeper badge in one tenth the time it took for some of my characters; it just gives me the option to use the "in my day we had to walk five kilometres uphill through waist-deep snow both ways" spiel. Besides, i also have several costumes with pieces that haven't been available to players for years. Which, i don't know, counts as earned glory, in some way, i guess.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Quote:
To be fair, I didn't find the OPs original post offensive, just a little naive. While I myself had a small amount of fun at his post's expense, I don't think there's any reason to manufacture more controversy than actually exists. We shouldn't beat up people for a lack of eloquence, and the basic opinion that the game's reward systems should be more of a meritocracy isn't absurd, just generally incompatible with the majority viewpoint of the community, or at least the forum community.|
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
You made a post that a lot of people found offensive, and felt would be offensive to others. How did you think people who play a game called City of HEROES would react? They instantly jumped to the defense of themselves and others.
What baffles me is that people keep making insulting posts in the name of "Voicing their opinion" and then are offended when others let them know how they feel about it. Do you expect people to just roll over and ignore stuff like that? Or were you thinking that others agreed? I am just trying to get a handle on this. Elitism is viewed very poorly by a great many people or participate on these boards. So all should be warned that when it is displayed people are going to be quick to rally against it. |
In the same way I'm not offended when the devs reduce Zookeeper to three monkeys and an organ grinder, I'm also not offended by someone that says the badge isn't as impressive to them now that its three monkeys and an organ grinder. I did them the old fashion way, by yelling "die monkeys" at my monitor for four hours straight, but I neither hold a grudge that its a lot easier now, nor do I hold a grudge that some people wish everyone had to experience the same hell. In the grand scheme of things, the statement "I wish you had to earn your way onto Exalted" is not worth making enemies over in either direction.
I mean, its Exalted. They still eat babies over there, right?
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
To be fair, I didn't find the OPs original post offensive, just a little naive. While I myself had a small amount of fun at his post's expense, I don't think there's any reason to manufacture more controversy than actually exists. We shouldn't beat up people for a lack of eloquence, and the basic opinion that the game's reward systems should be more of a meritocracy isn't absurd, just generally incompatible with the majority viewpoint of the community, or at least the forum community.
In the same way I'm not offended when the devs reduce Zookeeper to three monkeys and an organ grinder, I'm also not offended by someone that says the badge isn't as impressive to them now that its three monkeys and an organ grinder. I did them the old fashion way, by yelling "die monkeys" at my monitor for four hours straight, but I neither hold a grudge that its a lot easier now, nor do I hold a grudge that some people wish everyone had to experience the same hell. In the grand scheme of things, the statement "I wish you had to earn your way onto Exalted" is not worth making enemies over in either direction. I mean, its Exalted. They still eat babies over there, right? |
The op didn't really bother me much. I have been an elitist before, I just grew out of it at some point. The post by the op implying that it was wrong to share his opinion seemed passive aggressive to me and annoyed me. I have pneumonia, what can I say?
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
Quote:
Hruuuk, hggguh, hhhacktph.
|
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
I have pneumonia, what can I say?
|
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Rofl!
Quote:
ROFL!!|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Hruuuk, hggguh, hhhacktph.
|
Lotta that this week!
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
OP, some of the posters here did hit it very close to the mark. This game is unlike many others out there in that the 'loot elitism' mindset is not the norm.
Unlike other games, I've never, ever had someone come up and laugh at my alts because I didn't have X or Y costume piece gained by standing on my head, in Atlas Park at midnight, while the Devs summoned in a version of Hamidon wearing a top hat and tails who proceeded to offer all those attending mutating tea and scones.
Sure, there's prestige there... I think... (?) but in a year or two, not all people are even going to remember that a certain costume piece came from that long ago event, and new players don't have a clue period.
Earning an item is running a TF and selecting that as a reward, IMO.
Simple fact is, if you paid to attend the con, you paid for that exclusive item. You just paid a heck of a lot more.
Thanks for the reply. And to the rest of you, No I didn't know you could buy them off ebay. As for the VIP thing, you have all clearly put it into perspective for me. I can stop paying monthly and whenever I want VIP statice again I'll just pay for it at that time. I was clearly confused on the ideal that you had to stay current on your account for a period of time to maintain your VIP statice. Now that I know I can slack on my payments and not loose anything for doing so, its way more relaxing.