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Or land you a role on Yes Minister (which I admit is probably a rather esoteric reference but I might find myself surprised).
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Originally Posted by 3dent
Sesquipedalian loquaciousness and attempts to frame your argument to look like it came from a thesis on moral philosophy can briefly confuse your interlocutors
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Omnes relinquite spes, o vos intrantes
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After being lied to by synapse, I am likely canceling my sub dependent on how they respond to the incarnate nerds next week.
It's already obvious my favorite AT isn't important to the dev team...
Why should the rest of my play style (alting) be important.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
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Did he tell you he could super speed in real life?
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Originally Posted by Test_Rat
After being lied to by synapse
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I cant believe they nerfing LAMBDA/BAF rewards ...
If they want us to play new iTrials then make them fun and reward worth it!
I think they've lost it with all this Incarnate nerfs and grind.
Paying 15 Empyreans for new trees?
Whats next, more Incarnate crappy currencies?
I seriously thinking about just playing the game as before and totally ignoring the Incarnate system... And to do that I dont need to be a VIP.
I think the Incarnate system already seems daunting enough to many players, with its clunky currencies and creation system, tough trials and high prices. It should be a main draw for VIP subscriptions, but I'm not sure if it is. I think it should be a little more fun and casual-friendly. If that means the hardcore players get all the rewards quickly, so be it.
I don't know if Premium is the new VIP. I do know I don't care for unlocking new paths to existing incarnate abilities for 15 E-Merits, when not all of us stockpiled E-Merits.
I stopped trying to get E-Merits after I got all 4 tree's to tier 4, and got the few costume pieces I wanted. 
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Tier 9 here, don't think I'll be resubbing in December, personally find the current development path the devs are following to be wrong, this is a game that used to reward creativty and alting, its increasingly becoming a generic focus on one character MMO.
Really think whomever they hired from a fantasy MMO, should be sent straight back.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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They did. You can run the new ones for 1 EMP merit over and over again, after you've gotten your 2 for the 20 hour window.|
Originally Posted by Oliin
Ok, I'm not terribly foor the emp merit change as it currently stands, but really? I'd be extremely surprised if they intended any sort of threat or punishment with it. Encourage us to rn the new content yes, punish us for not running the new content ... not so much.
I think there were better options they could have chosen for the encouragment part though. |
I think, in their mind, it is more about forcing the 'progression of the story' which I understand, but I also think for those folks that don't care or want 'more challenging' are now being forced into content they don't want. I have liked and enjoyed every single trial they've presented so far. I run them very rarely, but when I do I have no preference unless I'm restricted by time or patience.
Removing the EMP merits once every 20 hours from the easier trials means the fact that some 'shinies' are locked behind such content requiring those EMP merits (I mean emotes, CC emotes, costume pieces, and auras). That limit in the ability to obtain them by forcing folks to do the 'harder' stuff isn't right.
Again, I don't care. Actually I do, but not for myself. I've heard way too much complaining from folks that don't want to do the 'hard' stuff just for costume pieces that make them happy.
Forcing them to do it because they reach a critera they don't even pay attention to (and believe me, they could care less about incarnte powers) won't foster any good will on paying players who don't want challenge, but a pleasant casual playtime with their SG mates having fun and joking about what they're doing.
The folks I'm talking about don't even like doing the trials because it makes them have to 'work for it' and I can occasionally convince them to do some of the easier ones, because they want the costume parts.
They will NOT try harder. They will give up. If they get frustrated enough, they'll stop subbing and possibly even playing.
If they're going to gate more incarnate content behind EMP merits... Fine, but in turn, make the costume, auras, and emotes purchaseable at the market. They will readily pay hard cash for it to never have to run a trial EVER again. No. I'm not kidding. For a couple auras, I don't think it would matter how much you charge if it meant they'd never have to think about Incarnate trials again.
Just so you know, this is the fence I straddle. The 'me' who enjoys the trials from time to time vs the all but one or two of my SG mates who could care less and got ticked off and tired of running the weekly Strike Targets because it forced them to log in so we'd have the time to finish them in the evenings on our SG nights. I do trials alone in PuG's most of the time because of this.
"I play characters. I have to have a very strong visual appearance, backstory, name, etc. to get involved with a character, otherwise I simply won't play it very long. I'm not an RPer by any stretch of the imagination, but character concept is very important for me."- Back Alley Brawler
I couldn't agree more.
I'd pay good money to never have a touch an incarnate trial.
I don't like being coerced or bribed into doing things I just don't find fun. But that's precisely what been going on since incarnate content came to be.
I had really high hopes that we'd have seen a solo progression path for incarnates by now... really if you look up my post history you'll eventually find posts of mine sticking up for the devs when incarnate stuff first came out. I was sure the devs would have had a solo path by now.
Instead I have been disappointed at every turn. No solo progression path at all... just more junk trials, more treadmill, grind away, rng fests.
I posted in the 21.5 beta forums that I've basically written off incarnate stuff on any new characters because I find the trials to be distasteful and I'd honestly rather cut myself than grind through them over and over again. I've just hit the point where I've decided any advantages that incarnate powers might give in my day to day play just aren't worth subjecting myself to the itrial grind. I don't care what carrot they try to dangle in front of me I refuse to be coerced or bribed into any more activities that I find repugnant.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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explain, because the explosion of alts seem to disagree
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
its increasingly becoming a generic focus on one character MMO.
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I originally posted this in the Beta forums, but after looking at this thread I feel it is better suited for this discussion. I am fairly certain that with the changes as they stand (I certainly hope they change), many current VIPs will drop down to premium players. The biggest bonus to me about VIPs is access to the Incarnate system. My thoughts, on the Incarnate system, have changed quit a bit since it first came into existence.
For over six years I loved playing this game, even without an end game. Then the Alpha Slot came and it was good. I had several options of ways to improve all 20+ of my 50s, and had a half dozen or so choices of content to effectively earn the power. If I didn't like one of the options required for anything, I simply needed to save up some salvage and I could still avoid playing what I didn't have fun doing. If I ever got sick of doing one content, I could simply keep an eye out for the others, or simply run any level 50 repeatable missions for shards. The whole process recharged my enjoyment for the game, and I obsessed over keeping track of what one of my couple dozen 50s needed what content.
The Apex and Tin Mage TFs came out, and they were tough yet rewarding, and they added yet another way to continue to work towards all those Alpha Slot powers.
Then the devs opened up the flood gates and release not one new Incarnate slot, but four new powers at once. In addition, these four new powers were pretty much only unlockable by farming the exact same two trials. Yes, I know there was technically other ways to do it and now they are even more.
I played them and liked them at first as they each are a fantastic mission by themselves. However, soon (at least for me) they became mechanical, follow the script and don't deviate from the script farming. I hated it, and after I finished getting them on my first 50 and 1 slot on a second, I swore off running them again and cancelled my subscription for the first time in 6+ years.
When I heard of the Signature Story Arcs and the new powersets, I resubscribed. While I have been disappointed by the length of the SSAs, the new powersets and proliferations have reignited my love of the game. I can't fathom ever getting back on the Incarnate train from what I have seen and read in the Beta forums. So you can count me in the group of people that think it may be best to just be a premium player.
For me the Incarnate System comes down to this.
Earning the Alpha Slot was fun as it there were so many ways to do it. I can't think of a single player I know that didn't try to get this slot on every character they could.
The next four slots were added, but the only reasonable rate of getting them involved farming, which led to people getting used to and obviously enjoying said farming, while others gave up on the whole idea. When new options were finally added, the people that enjoyed the repetitive BAFs and Lambdas, simply had no need to move on to the new missions as they were not as farmable.
Now the devs, in what looks to be an effort to reclaim some of those players that prefered the variety to look into the Incarnate system, are trying to get rid of the farming they encouraged in the first place. Doing this will only upset a decent portion of the players that still care about the system. And guess what... it is not going to work.
This is so odd, as it is the PvP system all over again. There was a small but loyal group, that loved the current system. However, in an effort to make it appeal to all, they ended up chasing away most of those loyal players. It feels weird being on the other side of the fence.
As a smarter person then I once said "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." What saddens me is that I thought most of the new developers were City of Heroes players first, so thus should know of the past and want to avoid this.
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The issue I see with the incarnate stuff is that there isn't enough to do to effectively earn salvage and threads and what not, but as they add more they thin the people doing mass group content out. If they add a few more incarnate trials then some servers will be spread too thin, but if they don't more and more people (who don't farm for pleasure) will burn out. If they could manage cross server instances with the group finder they could flood the system with incarnate trials...
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Originally Posted by GuiltTrip
As a smarter person then I once said "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." What saddens me is that I thought most of the new developers were City of Heroes players first, so thus should know of the past and want to avoid this.
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If you are someone who does not necessarily enjoy the Incarnate System, Premium is only as good as VIP provided that you are a high enough reward tier. I just opened up Tier 6 yesterday, so you do the math.
I like new ways to customize my toon's abilities (i.e. the first 5 Incarnate powers) to make them more unique than another toon with the same archetype and power sets. I also happen to like new content, and get a kick out of large scale assaults. But I dislike grinding. So the Incarnate system has simply become a string of large-scale attacks in which I will participate with each one of my 50s once or twice each, and then be done with them. However, I will be continuing my subscription due to the other stuff on which I would miss out (i.e. generic IOs, my most used type of enhancement).
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
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And after you get 27 Reward Tokens and get access to the Invention System?
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Originally Posted by Winterminal
However, I will be continuing my subscription due to the other stuff on which I would miss out (i.e. generic IOs, my most used type of enhancement).
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
explain, because the explosion of alts seem to disagree
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Simple progress past level 50 used to allow you to progress with multiple characters in the same night. With the removal of EM from Baf/Lam the minimal required time for advancing (unless incredibly lucky with the RNG) is around an hour (massivly increased on lower pop servers.) This is up from half an hour with the Baf/lam.
In the case of the UG it can require up to an hour just to get enough people to run it and a failure at the end can use up two hours of play time. In that time you could of had four attempts at the BAF/LAM and if successful you could of got advancement on two different alts.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Considering my own vet status (tier 8) I've seriously been looking at possibly dropping to premium since the incarnate system is obviously not being designed with people like me in mind. Sure I'll miss the incarnate powers but frankly if the content is not fun for me to play and my vet status pretty much gives me everything I want but the incarnate stuff, my reasons to keep paying a sub are dwindling away. I may make a 1 time cash purchase of points to unlock whatever my vet status doesn't cover (which will in turn more than fill out tier 9 for me) and then just call it a day.
I'm sorry but if the incarnate system is the only real carrot that VIP has to offer me at the end of the day, and that carrot happens to require me to wade through dog poop to get to it, then thanks but no thanks. I can find something else to do with that 15 dollars a month. I'm a bit disappointed since I really like the new format for COH and I like the game overall and want to remain a VIP. But I am arbitrarily not enjoying one of the primary selling points of VIP status (incarnate stuff) and the devs insist on developing more of that stuff I dislike (itrials). If they continue to ignore the solo option that I would like (and which was said to be coming but with little sign to show that it is) then I see little reason to continue being a VIP.
The incarnate system just isn't designed for players like me I guess. Oh well.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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That's understandable, though with upcoming changes, we could see a change in the variety of trials ran, Keyes and UG won't be as tedious, and you can run UG all day, every day and get a E-Merit each run.|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Simple progress past level 50 used to allow you to progress with multiple characters in the same night. With the removal of EM from Baf/Lam the minimal required time for advancing (unless incredibly lucky with the RNG) is around an hour (massivly increased on lower pop servers.) This is up from half an hour with the Baf/lam.
In the case of the UG it can require up to an hour just to get enough people to run it and a failure at the end can use up two hours of play time. In that time you could of had four attempts at the BAF/LAM and if successful you could of got advancement on two different alts. |
Though it sucks...I understand the reasoning behind removing the E-Merits from Lambda and BAF, like most things...you'd have to have a ridiculously bad team to fail these or just poor coordination or really bad luck via disconnections.
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You keep using that word. /Inigo|
Originally Posted by Giant2005
They are punishing us for running too many BAFs and Lams and not enough new content. Whether they follow through with the punishment or not, they have already threatened to punish us for our actions.
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
If I read it right he is saying he is cancelling his sub and moving from VIP to Premium and implying the majority will follow him. I could be wrong but that's how I read it.
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Originally Posted by Silver Gale
Then there's the people in between, the ones who have run the entry Trials enough to unlock the Lore and Destiny slots, but do not have enough Salvage to slot them with Rares for the cruical +2 Incarnate Shift, or those who are not interested in more difficult Trials but still want some of the Empyrean-only unlocks.
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Its absolutely possible to diminish returns to the point where people quit caring. Words to the wise, and all that.
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To each their own.
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
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That's a number of months away since I do not intend on purchasing Points. But, when that time comes, I will evaluate exactly what I will be missing out on in terms of characters, content, powers, etc. by dropping to Premium, and make the decision accordingly. Though, truth be told, if I had unlocked Inventions yesterday, I probably would not renew my subscription for November. I may still spend $15 on store stuff in November, but just not subscribe.
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Originally Posted by LISAR
And after you get 27 Reward Tokens and get access to the Invention System?
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@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
The new Alphas are Endmod (not really that useful to be frank, sure it boosts stamina but you might as well go the EndReduction if thats your conscern and reducing an NPCs end to zero does exactly nothing), Hold (largely useless in the Itrials since everything seems ridiculously resistant to behind held), Healing Boost (which will be useful in later Itrials since apparently they want to go the MMO standard and make healing more useful than simply buffing/debuffing) and Resistance (which will probably be like the Defence boost Alpha and only provide around 3% additional resistance, it'd need to provide atleast a +20% resistance, like bumping Invulns 30% resistance to energy etc up to 50% to be remotely useful).
None of those are very good compared to the straight out damage, endredux, Defense, Recharge or tohit (lets be honest...does anyone actually take tohit, it seems to be the least picked Alpha).
The Destiny one is a league teleport and a heal...wow...compared to every other Destiny power...that is some major suckage.
The only good one out of the bunch is the new Judgement power, useful for Martial arts characters...and it's locked behind 15 emp merits because...?
The Inteface slots are...eh..they're not as crappy as the Alpha or the Destiny but chance for endurance drain, chance for imobilize, Maximum HP debuff seems ok but will probably be tiny debuff that doesn't really add much and Chance to confuse which is damn near useless in the ITrials anyway. Compared to the near always useful -regen and -resistance debuffs...they're unfortunately just not upto snuff.
So yeah...why are they locking powers that are essentially WORSE than the ones you can unlock freely behind a 15 emp merit gate...it just makes no damn sense.
That unlock makes no sense. I figure they just want something you can earn, but really? No way I am going to unlock these powers with 15 now harder to obtain emp merits when the other 'equal' or possibly better powers require no unlock.
Okay...well, I might for concept, but I'd be frustrated at the silly pointless unlock requirement the whole way.
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