Any non-melee powersets in the pipeline?
By
bpphantom,
Posted on: 2011-10-18 23:00 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Beam Rifle and Time Manipulation just came out, we're only 1 month into Freedom and so far melee has only received 1 out of the 3 new power sets. I think the claim that one group is being ignored over the others is illegitimate.
I wouldn't expect too much news about other powersets until the Player Summit in a month. Since the Devs skipped NYCC I'm hoping many exciting new things will be announce next month
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I suppose one thing I neglected to mention is that Staff Melee was never "officially" announced. The video was leaked, and otherwise all I've heard about it was before BAB left, when he mentioned that it would take a lot of work (ie. neither confirming nor denying).
I guess there's a possibility there are other unnanounced sets in the Staff Melee timeframe that they've been able to keep under wraps. The main reason I posted the thread in the first place is that melee already has a ton of options, which makes the choices some ATs have look pretty slim by comparison, and the only information we have is about more melee.
A circle forms, everybody comes round
Just to hear the incredible sound
Of a genius smashing expectations
- Jonathan Coulton
In terms of Primary and Secondary elemental powersets, we've still yet to see:
Electric Buff/Debuff
Stone or Earth Buff+Debuff/Blast
Psychic Melee/Armour/Buff/Control (Different from Mind Control)
Dark Control/Assault
Radiation Melee/Armour/Manipulation/Control/Assault
Light Blast/Control/Buff+Debuff/Assault/Melee/Armour/Manipulation
Storm Blast/Control/Melee/Armour/Assault/Manipulation
Sonic Control/Manipulation/Melee/Armour
And that's just for elements. I can think of ideas for Arcane sets, a pistols secondary for Blasters, a natural fighting secondary for Blasters...
Melees are the most popular ATs combined, so of course they get the most love. That said, devs did confirm that they're working on some new stuff for Dominators. And Blast and Support sets are usually in the works.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I'd say the reason melee is so popular is because melee ATs play less like your typical hamstrung MMO class that can't tie its own shoes without a team. Melee are still encouraged to team, of course, but in more subtle ways, such as that teams enhance their performance, speed up their gains and open up the "team-only" content and challenges.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Melees are the most popular ATs combined, so of course they get the most love. That said, devs did confirm that they're working on some new stuff for Dominators. And Blast and Support sets are usually in the works.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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While melee tends to be more popular, I really do feel as though doms should get some love. While I know their mechanics are different than most AT's in that domination would have to be taken into account when ensuring there are not balancing issues, and permadom being now so easy to achieve (and earlier..and cheaper) I do feel as though having the same powers since launch makes them less desirable to play.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
Melees are the most popular ATs combined, so of course they get the most love. That said, devs did confirm that they're working on some new stuff for Dominators. And Blast and Support sets are usually in the works.
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Controllers are often times also in the same boat, only they do have the benefit of getting secondaries from time to time.
Doms seem to be the black sheep, but I am excited to see whats in store for the AT considdering it, and controllers are by far my favorite. (Although I assume that the changes in store will have to be purchased from the store, which means point hoarding for me...cuz I ain't buying nothing)
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Also, if a server is slow, or downright dead, a player knows that they can log in as a scrapper or brute and still play|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I'd say the reason melee is so popular is because melee ATs play less like your typical hamstrung MMO class that can't tie its own shoes without a team. Melee are still encouraged to team, of course, but in more subtle ways, such as that teams enhance their performance, speed up their gains and open up the "team-only" content and challenges.
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Doms should get some love? I bet MMs laugh heartily at that statement. I only play melee so the selfish part of me is glad that there are so many melee sets in the works.
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Why would Masterminds laugh at Doms? Both got a Primary in i19 but since then Domis haven't seen anything new (not even Proliferation) whereas Masterminds got both a new Secondary (which was free) and a Proliferated one (Sonic)
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Originally Posted by Zyphoid
Also, if a server is slow, or downright dead, a player knows that they can log in as a scrapper or brute and still play
Doms should get some love? I bet MMs laugh heartily at that statement. I only play melee so the selfish part of me is glad that there are so many melee sets in the works. |
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That's what I mean - melee don't NEED other people, so you know that every time you log one in, you can play come hell or high water. "Squishies" can often do better, but they're dependent on who's available to do what at the time. In essence, I can play melee all the time or squishies some of the time, and that makes for lopsided popularity.|
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
Also, if a server is slow, or downright dead, a player knows that they can log in as a scrapper or brute and still play
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That said, Masterminds are the AT I feel needs the most love. Especially a new primary. I'd LOOOVE to see some Storm Troopers or Space Soldiers or anything futuristic that isn't pure robots.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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There is also the fact that Melee/Defence sets are more universal, being used by 4 ATs. Ranged and (De)Buff are used by 3, Control is only used by 2. Then you get down to the specialist sets: Assault, Manipulation and Henchmen. Henchmen has it the worst since they take the most time to develop and only get use for 1 AT (which isn't even free to play)
I'm sure that all has some influence on the choices for premium powersets, since they are going to want to make something that will sell the best. Would an 800 point Assault set sell as well as an 800 point Melee set?
Therefore, I think its most likely that we will see the more specialist sets as part of Issue releases (alongside proliferation). Not to say that there won't be premium sets for them, of course.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
That's what I mean - melee don't NEED other people, so you know that every time you log one in, you can play come hell or high water. "Squishies" can often do better, but they're dependent on who's available to do what at the time. In essence, I can play melee all the time or squishies some of the time, and that makes for lopsided popularity.
That said, Masterminds are the AT I feel needs the most love. Especially a new primary. I'd LOOOVE to see some Storm Troopers or Space Soldiers or anything futuristic that isn't pure robots. |
I totally have to disagree here. Not because I am a Dom lover but because I can log into "any dom"....any time, and never need to play with anyone ever...and without little challenge. But that could be just because I know the AT better than any of the others.
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Only my Controllers have ever needed other people (and I hate them anyway - except Ill/ because it's not really control |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
That's what I mean - melee don't NEED other people, so you know that every time you log one in, you can play come hell or high water. "Squishies" can often do better, but they're dependent on who's available to do what at the time. In essence, I can play melee all the time or squishies some of the time, and that makes for lopsided popularity.
That said, Masterminds are the AT I feel needs the most love. Especially a new primary. I'd LOOOVE to see some Storm Troopers or Space Soldiers or anything futuristic that isn't pure robots. |
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no range love?...you got beam and time just this past month!
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I was thinking the same thing and illegitimate is even tame in this sense.|
Originally Posted by warden_de_dios
Beam Rifle and Time Manipulation just came out, we're only 1 month into Freedom and so far melee has only received 1 out of the 3 new power sets. I think the claim that one group is being ignored over the others is illegitimate.
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How fast can the devs release sets at a time to make everyone happy? The answer is, "not fast enough"
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I can do that too, but yes it's because you and I know how the AT works. Doms aren't as newbie friendly as a melee AT.|
Originally Posted by Nyx
I totally have to disagree here. Not because I am a Dom lover but because I can log into "any dom"....any time, and never need to play with anyone ever...and without little challenge. But that could be just because I know the AT better than any of the others.
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A Dom player needs to know the difference between each mez type and what magnitidues are. They need to know the durations of those powers and know how to apply them correctly. You also have to rely on some long recharge powers that need good accuracy slotting and aiming. If you mess up it can mean death. If you run into a more difficult situation, you don't have RES/DEF/heals/HP to back you up. A melee player just needs to punch things until they die.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I think Storm Summoning is supposed to count as this.|
Originally Posted by Zortel
In terms of Primary and Secondary elemental powersets, we've still yet to see:
Electric Buff/Debuff |
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| Psychic Melee/Armour/Buff/Control (Different from Mind Control) |
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| Dark Control/Assault |
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| Light Blast/Control/Buff+Debuff/Assault/Melee/Armour/Manipulation |
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I want to say there was a half-mention about Masterminds in one of the Ustreams that made me think that they were working on a set. But, I'd be hardpressed to find which video it was in.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Melees are the most popular ATs combined, so of course they get the most love. That said, devs did confirm that they're working on some new stuff for Dominators. And Blast and Support sets are usually in the works.
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Devs have said they've wanted to do a beast mastery pet set but never had four-legged rigs in the game before that could be animated. There's an animated wolf in the new Halloween trial though. So the rumor on the forums is they'll get around to doing a beast pet set at some point now.
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Originally Posted by ThePill
I want to say there was a half-mention about Masterminds in one of the Ustreams that made me think that they were working on a set. But, I'd be hardpressed to find which video it was in.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Ok...I never did that. Or had to know any of that....sure I learned it because eventually you just do, but I found the At completely straight forward and just perfect.. Just like I never found controllers at all frustrating or unsoloable. With Doms though it's control, Melee, Range, debuff, buff, and everything else inbetween. To me next to a Veat, it's the Villain AT with the most options. (Again...this is just how I feel about it.)|
Originally Posted by Dispari
I can do that too, but yes it's because you and I know how the AT works. Doms aren't as newbie friendly as a melee AT.
A Dom player needs to know the difference between each mez type and what magnitidues are. They need to know the durations of those powers and know how to apply them correctly. You also have to rely on some long recharge powers that need good accuracy slotting and aiming. If you mess up it can mean death. If you run into a more difficult situation, you don't have RES/DEF/heals/HP to back you up. A melee player just needs to punch things until they die. |
Truthfully the only AT I ever had an issue soloing was an emp defender...and I knew it would be the case.
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It's possible you had a predisposition or talent for those things. I, having come from other MMOs, already knew the ups and downs of MMO combat. When CoV launched and warned everyone not to start with MMs because they were complicated, I said "pbbt" and made that my first villain. And it was easy to play because I had done pet classes in other games.|
Originally Posted by Nyx
Ok...I never did that. Or had to know any of that....sure I learned it because eventually you just do, but I found the At completely straight forward and just perfect.. Just like I never found controllers at all frustrating or unsoloable. With Doms though it's control, Melee, Range, debuff, buff, and everything else inbetween. To me next to a Veat, it's the Villain AT with the most options. (Again...this is just how I feel about it.)
Truthfully the only AT I ever had an issue soloing was an emp defender...and I knew it would be the case. |
Some people whose first experience with an online game may not be able to adapt to Doms and other non-standard ATs so easily. Or even grasp the concept of mezzing enemies right off. The most straight-forward ATs are melees and Blasters because all you do is attack things until they die. Which is as easy as pushing your power buttons.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
It's possible you had a predisposition or talent for those things. I, having come from other MMOs, already knew the ups and downs of MMO combat. When CoV launched and warned everyone not to start with MMs because they were complicated, I said "pbbt" and made that my first villain. And it was easy to play because I had done pet classes in other games.
Some people whose first experience with an online game may not be able to adapt to Doms and other non-standard ATs so easily. Or even grasp the concept of mezzing enemies right off. The most straight-forward ATs are melees and Blasters because all you do is attack things until they die. Which is as easy as pushing your power buttons. |
This could be true. I am not ruling that out considdering my previous games played were Guild Wars and my main was a Mesmer/Necro secondary...so I am used to CC's and come to think of it, I guess NWN was something I played to the extreme and always specialized in enchantment...which is just more CC's.
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There have been VERY VAGUE hints, from Zwill IIRC, that they have some really neat things in the works for dominators. But absolutely no indication of what these things are.
I presume they are powersets, or at least one powerset, and they are tech or animation heavy. My first guess would be something to do with whips since doms have a nice mix of melee, range and control in their powers that could accommodate that sort of powerset.
In my dream of dreams, they are also working on some sort of thrown weapons/signature weapons set (think playing cards, flaming skulls, bowling pins, hand fans, tomahawks, knives, etc etc.), especially since Beam Rifle demonstrates they now have the tech to customize both weapons in hand and the particle effects of said weapons simultaneously.
I am betting with the new schedule we see between 6 & 8 premium powersets per year. Probably closer to 8 for their financial model to really generate revenue. They need to outpace the vets 550 PP worth of goodies each month.
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Technically speaking, none of the ATs specifically and expressly NEED a team to solo. The Evil Geko and others went on a small crusade to prove that Trapdoor was soloable by anything ever, and to their credit, they proved that much. The problem comes in two parts, however:|
Originally Posted by Nyx
I totally have to disagree here. Not because I am a Dom lover but because I can log into "any dom"....any time, and never need to play with anyone ever...and without little challenge. But that could be just because I know the AT better than any of the others.
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1. Yes, you do know the AT. I suspect you're a pretty good player, in fact. But the thing is... If you're not a good player, non-melee characters are VERY unforgiving. I recall trying to play Blasters, and while it proved very doable if I knew what I was doing, just a simple slip of the mind could cause instant disaster.
2. Melee bring a degree of comfort that non-melee rarely have. As a melee character, you have great tolerance for error and inaction. Sure, you can get yourself killed, but only if you make a whole series of silly mistakes, and you can usually see it 30 seconds or more ahead of time, which is PLENTY of warning to take action. As non-melee, and especially as a Blaster, mistake-caused death is usually pretty instant. By the time you realise something has gone wrong, you're already dead. And, yes, I do realise that some controllers are capable of just perma-holding entire spawns and being safe, but this comes at the cost of expediency.
Basically, melee characters are easy to play, fast to progress and easy to learn. They're not more popular because they're "better" or "stronger" but merely because they're easier to work with. A good Blaster can blow a Scrapper out of the water in terms of damage and even eight Scrappers couldn't dent some AVs without buffs and debuffs. But it's just much easier to pick up and play a Scrapper even if you've never played one before than it is to play a Blaster or a Dominator.
Of course, the flip side is that some of the melee ATs are SO easy to play that some people see them as simplistic, boring and repetitive, but they still end up being the most popular by a comfortable margin. That's not to dis non-melee ATs, but more to say that this is what I hope the future of MMOs holds - self-sufficient characters capable in their own right for whom team contribution comes IN ADDITION to their self-sufficiency, not INSTEAD of it.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Here are the most recently added and expected Power Sets, the Melee ones highlighted in red:
Demon Summoning
Dual Pistols
Electric Control
Kinetic Melee
Beam Rifle
Time Manipulation
Street Justice
Titan Weapons
Staff Weapons
That's four to five in new Sets.
Now, Melee already has the most number of unique sets, but then again, it is shared by four different ATs. It represents 34% of all Sets.
Going forward, Melee is going to see a lot more love in Proliferation than other sets mainly because each of the ATs using Melee has had severe restrictions in accessing all the Melee sets, with each AT still having 4-7 Melee Sets held out of reach. The other types of Power Sets have either been fully proliferated (like Range) or only have 1-3 more Sets to proliferate.
Creating new Summoning, Assault, or Manipulation Sets is problematic since only one AT uses each of those types of Sets -- not too mention how labor intensive Summoning is. You also get more bang for the buck with new Melee, Ranged, or Buff Sets.
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Just wondering because as far as I can tell we haven't heard of anything besides Titan Weapons and Staff Melee, both of which look very nice (and I'll probably make use of them) but it's showering attention on a few ATs and leaving the rest out in the cold. Dominators in particular, but also Masterminds and Controllers haven't even had a whiff of a new primary since Going Rogue launched over a year ago.
All I've heard is "something in the future for Dominators", which is vague and to be honest probably shouldn't need to be said - in a subscription game it doesn't really change the baseline expectation. There was also someone on Exalted help channel talking about a "Gunslinger" single pistol powerset that would be launched alongside the costume pieces, they seemed fairly convinced but I haven't heard anything about it elsewhere so assume it was just wishing/speculation.
So did I miss something, or do we really have no solid information for the ones among us who prefer the non-melee ATs?
A circle forms, everybody comes round
Just to hear the incredible sound
Of a genius smashing expectations
- Jonathan Coulton