Anyone else think it's unfair that Spiritual's +Recharge doesn't affect other Incarnate Powers?

I've thought about it, and I really don't see why it has to be this way. Every other enhancement from Alpha will affect other Incarnate powers, but not spiritual's +Recharge. The major sticking point for me is Musculature; if it's allowed to buff Lore and Judgment's already rather insane damage, what makes Spiritual making those powers come back quicker so much worse?

It's certainly inconsistent.

But I don't know about unfair.

I think the major concern is how it would affect Destiny. Musculature doesn't do much for that.

I don't know.

If you calculate the damage over time of Judgement with Musculature and compare it to the damage over time of Judgement with "assumed Spiritual," I'm pretty sure you get the same number.

I get the feeling that Spiritual is already the most used Alpha. If it were to benefit Lore and Judgement and Destiny as well, then it would be a clear leading choice.

Does musculature buff Lore? I thought it just buffed judgement.

+rech was never intended to affect incarnate powers because they were already pretty overpowered compared to most other powers

i dont think damage over time is what they are concerned with, judgement is mainly used to kill 80% of an entire mob in 1 shot, imagine doing that every 60 sec instead of 90 if you went spiritual

if +rech did affect incarnate powers nobody would have any reason to go anything but spiritual unless they were running into serious end problems

Spiritual is by and large the most powerful Alpha Slot for most builds. It's a little sad that I can't make my awesome swooshy power more often, sure, but Spiritual would be giving Musculature a run for its money on damage then, in addition to still being way better for everything else.

Void, Cryonic, and Ionic have significant properties unrelated to damage attached to their judgements. Those significant side properties are now up 31% more often with VR Spiritual Core Alpha.

In addition, you're doing very slightly less than (including activation times) 31% more damage with them for negligible end cost, and you can use it on a fresh pack of enemies more often - which is more helpful since usually Judgement from a few heroes is already overkill on a pack.

Musculature's +45% damage isn't much of an advantage to speak of there.

The way I look at it, its not unfair that Spiritual's +recharge doesn't affect the other Incarnate powers, for the simple reason that making a power be unaffected by recharge is not unfair in general to recharge buffs. We don't say, for example, that Strength of Will is unfair to Hasten. I look at it holistically and when I do, there are a number of powers that Spiritual's recharge buff don't affect, including the Incarnate powers, but overall its a very good benefit which makes Spiritual Alpha a good choice in general. That makes the choice to take or not take Spiritual at least fair: probably more than fair relative to the other choices.

Beyond making that choice itself fair to players, I see no specific reason why the game has to be fair to spiritual's recharge buff itself. Spiritual's recharge buff is not an entity that we need to be fair towards.


I don't think the devs were primarily thinking about making the Incarnate powers immune to recharge to make sure Spiritual was not too powerful: I think they explicitly wanted those powers to have very specific uptimes, period. And that's why you can't muck with their recharge at all, Spiritual or otherwise.

I don't think it is unfair in the slightest for a couple reasons.

First, the number of powers it does affect is large to begin with - and it also
ignores ED (by varying degree depending on tier), so one can certainly make
a case for it being "powerful enough" already.

Secondly, and more from a thematic view, the idea of the Alpha is to make
what you have already (ie. core Pri/Sec powers) more effective. As it is the
very first Incarnate Ability, having it work that way (and not affecting iPowers
that come later) seems perfectly reasonable to me.


Regards,
4

Another thing to consider is that... damage over time might work out mathematically with spiritual and muscular but spiritual's impact far exceeds musculature when you look at it like this.

If your Judgement attack wipes out a single spawn with 1 hit without musculature... then musculature does all of nothing to really help your performance in that regard.

Spiritual on the other hand would let you wipe out more spawns with your Judgement attack because of the faster recharge. In this case recharge far exceeds more damage.

yeah I'm with the 'these are already disgustingly strong powers'. Having them work within set parameters makes them easier to balance and is more thematic I think and makes other choices as viable.

The way I see it:

If Spiritual affected the recharge of the incarnate powers, then the devs would have needed to balance the numbers to take that into account. It's like SoW/OwtS, you can either have these powers with moderate effect and reasonable recharge but can't make them come up faster or we'll just have to make the recharge really really long.

I'm betting, since they wanted these powers to be 'fun' they opted to make them not 8-15+ min recharging powers and instead something you can use kinda often but you can't make that 'kinda often' any more often...

Am I making any sense?

Also i am fairly certain that the devs can either make it effected by recharge or not effected by recharge. This being the case if it were so then global recharge bonuses and hasten would also effect the incarnate powers. If that were the case then on my blaster for example i would have judgement up every 29 seconds that's at a minimum every other group. I would have destiny up 38 seconds which means i can triple stack it. Not to mention it would give me perma lore pets. You can't tell me this wouldn't be broken. Hence why spirtual doesn't effect the recharge of incarnate powers

Lornac

Stupid Question Time:

Does Burnout recharge incarnate powers?

If you ask me, +45% recharge enhancement > +45% endurance reduction enhancement > +45% damage enhancement > +45% accuracy enhancement .

Like, by, a lot.

I wouldn't mind Spiritual removing a set amount of recharge time for Incarnate powers rather than depending on the original recharge time of the power in question. So like Judgement for example, it could just remove between 5-10 seconds off the original 90 sec recharge depending on the tier rather than the 30 seconds proposed, haha.

The removed time would be set by the devs, and would be minor, so it can't be enhanced even further. Or something, haha. Better than no buff at all from the alpha.

Just throwing this out there because I just realized it:

The iPowers were balanced around not being able to increase the recharge at all. If spiritual were allowed to buff the others, you should expect each of their recharge times to be increased by at least 50%.

So yes, I've solidified my opinion. It's completely fair.

I just hope Omega allows sets, Alphas, and any other buff to buff Incarnate stuff.

I actually think Judgment and Destiny need to have longer recharge. Judgment's up-time is way too fast for such powerful nuke.

I know people will cry but I prefer Judgment and maybe Destiny having longer recharge like 300s and you can take Spiritual to reduce that recharge or you can choose Musculature to make it hurt more.

I can see the problem in balancing with Spiritual. It's tough to balance "nukes" with different recharge timer. Maybe the secondary effects from Spiritual is very good? I haven't taken Spiritual at all because I find Cardiac and Musculature better.