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You're aware that a lot of the CS tickets are being returned as, "Thanks but no thanks" right now, right? My favorite excuse as of late is, "No, it was never broken. That's the way it was supposed to work. It worked that way, correctly, until the most recent patch. Yes, that completely changed the way it worked--it continues to correctly work." "You're saying that the patch that fixed this, and indicates it as a fix, in no way means that it was ever broken?" "Correct. It was working as intended before, and now works as intended in a different capacity."|
Originally Posted by Positron
All of the "move or die" FX powers should be tagged with a priority on them to make them draw first before any other FX, so those people with lower graphic settings will still see them even if a million other things are going on.
If you find this isn't the case, please report the bugs so we can remedy that. |
I'm telling you: my computer has half-decent graphics for being really old, and it doesn't draw that stuff most of the time. Thank god I know where to stand during the Underground trial, because it doesn't draw the teleport field either.
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I remember on one of the earlier badge runs I was on, I was hit by the beam and I wasn't even in the green.
The notification popped up, I jumped out and there must've been some kind of lag because I was floating in the air no where near the green and I was held and kersplat.
I think I got the Mo badge a couple of weeks after the trial went live then never touched it again until the other day.
It's my least favorite of the trials (even when not trying for side badges).
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I like this.|
Originally Posted by Paladin
I like to joke with my friend that successfully running the trials don't require 16-24 people, but instead require varying numbers of basically competent players. Lambda requires 1 competent person, Keyes requires 1-2, the Underground requires 3-5, and the BAF doesn't require any.
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This is the general form on how "we" decide how well any SF or whatever will run.
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I have this problem, but unlike with Zengar, I have a harder time with the Keyes patch than the Apex ones. I find the Apex visual effect unsubtle. I play with sound, and it also comes with an incredibly distinctive sound. Combining the two, I find Apex patches easy to avoid.|
Originally Posted by Zengar
My problem with such effects (although I've only been hit occasional with such) is that my graphic settings are too high, rather than too low. The warning effects may be tagged with priority, but when all of the burn patches, bubbles, ice slicks, and so on are also drawn I have to look sharp to catch the targeting FX.
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In contrast, the Keyes patch is visually subtle. It is a "static-y" pale green field that is easily lost in the midst of other effects. There is no sound leading up to it. There is a big red warning, but the problem is that there are lots of big red warnings in the Keyes trial, and it takes a moment to process which one you are seeing. This is in contrast to the blue patches in Apex, for which there is no other sound in the game like their warning noise - you can't mistake it for anything else when you hear it, and know it means to move or look around immediately. Also unlike Apex, the Obliteration patch is much larger, so if you wait until you're looking at it or reading the warning message to realize you need to move, it may be too late.
Personally, I find the Obliteration effect too frequent. It's on a 20 second timer, and it tends to force everyone away from Anti-Matter. That creates a situation where, in practice, you only get to beat on him for around 10, maybe 15 seconds before everyone needs to worry about scattering again. That's just annoyingly manic, especially when combined with all the other crap he does. Even if it was 30 seconds between beams it would be a significant decrease in how fidgety that fight is.
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Like I've been saying since pre-beta? I'll take a screenshot of my GFX settings and I know that Arbiter Oates has a copy of my DirectX report handy.|
Originally Posted by Positron
All of the "move or die" FX powers should be tagged with a priority on them to make them draw first before any other FX, so those people with lower graphic settings will still see them even if a million other things are going on.
If you find this isn't the case, please report the bugs so we can remedy that. |
I frequently can't see the following in Keyes:
- Alpha/Beta entanglements. (Destiny Barrier, other Force Fields, and various other buffs obscure them).
- Disintegration. Unless I'm incredibly close, have only a few people in the league near the fight, or have my particle effects high enough to cause lag I frequently can't see the effects of disintegration. If I can see it, I frequently mistake it for the other, regular radiation powers that Anti-Matter uses.
- Obliteration beam. Frequently the barely noticeable Obliteration Beam is a fuzzy dim power that is obscured by the ground plane or hidden just above and behind my character if it targets a character off the ground. (edit: also frequently obscured by player AoEs.)
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Like I've been saying since pre-beta? I'll take a screenshot of my GFX settings and I know that Arbiter Oates has a copy of my DirectX report handy.
I frequently can't see the following in Keyes:
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I gotta say, I had no idea that the Obliteration beam had a graphic effect. I just thought it was a bunch of sudden damage. Can you see Battle Maiden's blue stuff? The TP patch in the UG trial? I can't see any of those either.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
I've never tried an MOKeyes but whenever I've been hit by either the Obliteration beam or Battle Maiden's death patches it's been due to either lag or a flyer being targeted. I turn my graphics settings waaaay down and they still draw in, although the green patch is a bit hard to see especially with all the other flashy crap going on.
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I can see both of those.|
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
Can you see Battle Maiden's blue stuff? The TP patch in the UG trial? I can't see any of those either.
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However the last time I was in the Underground, and had my environment reflections, water effects, shadows to "none" the water completely disappeared in the sunken barge room after the Crystal Trap.
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The reason why I specifically recommended no flying at all for any reason and no hopping off the ground for any reason during a badge run, even to the point where if you can't target antimatter tough tapoica, is because I noticed early on that the obliteration effect is two-dimensional. As far as I can tell with the exception of some minor swirling fx at the edge the obliteration patch has zero height. So if it spawns anywhere near eye level, its basically invisible from that vantage point. There are no graphics settings you can set that will make the patch visible if it spawns in the air at approximately eye level, unless you yourself are above it, and if you are above it you'd be part of the problem.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I frequently can't see the following in Keyes:
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Yes, I believe that to be a design bug. And I say that as someone that can avoid Obliteration virtually 100% of the time if I have to.
As to the OP, I don't know if I've ever been in a situation where someone explicitly claimed to be hit by Obliteration for literally no possible reason. In my opinion, its not enough to think you aren't at the beam: if I can't see it, I assume I'm in it. I would only bug a situation where I clearly saw the beam over there, and yet I got hit over here. I haven't heard of someone reporting that. I only hear reports of players getting hit and not seeing the beam. That wouldn't necessarily mean they were not actually in its path.
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You should not, under any circumstances, have any suppressible travel turned on during the fight with Antimatter on a badge run. Sprint is plenty fast to get out of the circle. Some players think having travel can help because speed makes it easier to get out of the patch. It hurts more than it helps. It takes less than one second to sprint out of the patch, and you have more than two to safely get out of dodge.|
Originally Posted by Vanden
TRAVEL SUPPRESSION GRR
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Sprint is so predictably fast enough, I wouldn't even recommend using teleport to get out of the patch because the teleport activation time is a bigger risk than just running out of the patch.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
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As to the OP, I don't know if I've ever been in a situation where someone explicitly claimed to be hit by Obliteration for literally no possible reason. In my opinion, its not enough to think you aren't at the beam: if I can't see it, I assume I'm in it. I would only bug a situation where I clearly saw the beam over there, and yet I got hit over here. I haven't heard of someone reporting that. I only hear reports of players getting hit and not seeing the beam. That wouldn't necessarily mean they were not actually in its path. |
I will say that on one run on Liberty we were going for the Loves a Challenge badge and everything was going fine; we had AM in the 3rd regen station and he was healing...he finished healing and next thing you know one person died in 1 (2?) hits.
He wasn't being disintegrated and the only thought was an Oblit. Beam...he was in one but then ran out of it before it fired (like most people) but I guess the server thought he was still in the patch because we didn't get any badges
I would have to vouch for the guy because on my screen he was out of the green patch too (he was in front of me; I was on my Mind/Empath Controller) but...*shrugs*
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Did his combat chat say he was hit by Obliteration?
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Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
I will say that on one run on Liberty we were going for the Loves a Challenge badge and everything was going fine; we had AM in the 3rd regen station and he was healing...he finished healing and next thing you know one person died in 1 (2?) hits.
He wasn't being disintegrated and the only thought was an Oblit. Beam...he was in one but then ran out of it before it fired (like most people) but I guess the server thought he was still in the patch because we didn't get any badges I would have to vouch for the guy because on my screen he was out of the green patch too (he was in front of me; I was on my Mind/Empath Controller) but...*shrugs* |
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It's still a design flaw. If we're supposed to get a visual indicator so we can avoid an effect, anything that prevents us from seeing said visual indicator is a flaw and should be fixed.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
As to the OP, I don't know if I've ever been in a situation where someone explicitly claimed to be hit by Obliteration for literally no possible reason. In my opinion, its not enough to think you aren't at the beam: if I can't see it, I assume I'm in it. I would only bug a situation where I clearly saw the beam over there, and yet I got hit over here. I haven't heard of someone reporting that. I only hear reports of players getting hit and not seeing the beam. That wouldn't necessarily mean they were not actually in its path.
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Quote:
There are times I think you just like quoting my posts, whether you intend to actually respond to anything I say in them or not.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
It's still a design flaw. If we're supposed to get a visual indicator so we can avoid an effect, anything that prevents us from seeing said visual indicator is a flaw and should be fixed.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Did his combat chat say he was hit by Obliteration?
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If I remember correctly his combat log was empty (ie. didn't say anything about the damage he took)...but...I could look through my chat logs to see if he actually said that or not....but...don't remember when it happened beyond "months ago"
Edit: I may be able to find the log...remembering that I keep a log of when (date wise at least) I do which trial and with what toon...so I could at least narrow it down.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Positron
All of the "move or die" FX powers should be tagged with a priority on them to make them draw first before any other FX, so those people with lower graphic settings will still see them even if a million other things are going on.
If you find this isn't the case, please report the bugs so we can remedy that. |
Not to be a **** but you have two mayor brands of graphics card creators (Okay three if you want to count intel ((maybe four does Apple do its own?)))
You have X amount of graphics cards that can run CoH, these have Y amount of drivers that work Z different operating systems.
Is it honestly that surprising that its not drawing on all systems?
Plus well insta death-patches? why after seven and a bit years, are you trying to implement stuff from MMO's prior to your launch?
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
The targeting FX for Obliteration Beam does not stand out nearly as well as Battle Maiden's Halberd Strike on the Apex TF. If the fuzzy greenness were replaced with the War Walker's Orbital Strike reticule, it'd be a lot harder to miss.
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Why would you want to, and No (been using Nvidia if memory serves.)
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
(Okay three if you want to count intel ((maybe four does Apple do its own?)))
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Fine then, how do you suggest people treat design flaws of this nature, if said people are hoping the flaws are fixed rather than repeated?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
There are times I think you just like quoting my posts, whether you intend to actually respond to anything I say in them or not.
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Quote:
I ask again: did you actually read the post of mine you quoted? The one where I say that the design of the obliteration patch is in my opinion in error because of visibility issues? |
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Fine then, how do you suggest people treat design flaws of this nature, if said people are hoping the flaws are fixed rather than repeated?
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You quoted the part of my post where I specifically said "As to the OP" which asked the fundamental question of how it is possible to fail to get the badge when no one claims to have been hit by the beam. I said I would only consider the mechanics themselves bugged if people saw the beam elsewhere and still got hit, not if they got hit and didn't see the beam, because they still could have been hit by the beam. That would explain the specific situation the OP was asking about. Because that was a response to the OP, and not the post I quoted, I went out of my way to say "As to the OP." My response to the person that I quoted, which specifically addressed the question of whether the Obliteration patch was designed properly from a visibility standpoint, was to say in my opinion it is not. I offer no specific comment on what anyone else should or should not do to express a similar sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
If I remember correctly his combat log was empty (ie. didn't say anything about the damage he took)...but...I could look through my chat logs to see if he actually said that or not....but...don't remember when it happened beyond "months ago"
Edit: I may be able to find the log...remembering that I keep a log of when (date wise at least) I do which trial and with what toon...so I could at least narrow it down. |
Well this is very much a " ... " moment for me.
Just looked at my log for when I ran the KIR trial on my Mind/Empathy Controller and...no chat log files in my game client....login to the live server and oh look at that...chat log was disabled....grr...I swear I turn that on for all my toons
Well, again, just going off of what I remember; he said there was no 'damage received' message when he died...so...*shrugs*
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Intel's latest processor also do Graphics, its the current maybe/might/could do change of how computers will be made.
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Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Why would you want to, and No (been using Nvidia if memory serves.)
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Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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To my mind, here's the dilemma: at high graphics settings, the relatively subtle "green stuff" can be occluded by Ice Patches, Tar Patches, Static Fields, Burns, and whatever else people are trying to use on Anti-Matter. At low graphics settings, the relatively subtle "green stuff" becomes even more subtle. After a certain point, even if it were the only visual effect going, the patch becomes hard to see. Green-on-pale-gray isn't exactly high contrast.|
Originally Posted by Positron
All of the "move or die" FX powers should be tagged with a priority on them to make them draw first before any other FX, so those people with lower graphic settings will still see them even if a million other things are going on.
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And colored pop-up messages? Those are barely one step above ad banners in my mental filter by this point. I see so many of them and they so rarely contain information that I need, I have to force my mind to process the information they're trying to convey. In the Keyes Trial, for instance, I'm pretty sure that I don't need to be notified of entanglement shifts every time they happen. I don't really have time to process what color I am and what color everyone around me is, and ol' Keyes himself has more than enough anti-clumping mechanics to keep me from standing in one spot anyway. In other words, I was already jumping around like a meth-snorting howler monkey on fire. I doubt I'll be standing near any one person for long enough for the debuff to have any meaningful effect.
But that's a sidebar. The graphics are why I got caught by the patch pretty often early on. Now I know to turn my particle count up for the Keyes. My computer has to suffer through it, but at least I don't get vaporized every 20 seconds in the last fight, and it's rare for me to get caught in the patch.
A green War Walker targeting reticle on the ground and a cylindrical effect--something that goes all the way up to the flight ceiling--would help.
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Originally Posted by vulpish_one
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A green War Walker targeting reticle on the ground and a cylindrical effect--something that goes all the way up to the flight ceiling--would help. |
I like the idea (as well as the others that have posted here); but maybe instead of green; make it a red color just like the one that War Walkers have right now (obviously a bigger circle for Oblit. Beam but...).
I'd also suggest to have an icon above the head (if not on the trial UI as well) for who is being disintegrated.
The icon I'm talking about is the one that shows who Desdemona is following; it'd have to be a diff. looking icon since the head of Des. would be weird for Disintegration but...something like that might help too.
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It's the same problem as the patches of doom at the end of Apex's Task Force. Many player powers are colored the same way and cover up the area all too well. At least with Apex you only have one team to worry about, too. With Keyes, you can have up to 24 people running around and confusing things, and there is a LOT more on the ground to hide that patch in with Keyes than there is in a destroyed Blyde Square.
And yes, animation lock. If I queue up an attack before one is done animating (which makes sense most of the time), sometimes lag or the above can make it hard to dodge this.
And let's face it, Trials can get laggy. I usually can dodge this stuff just fine, but others? I can't even see it or move until it's practically hitting already, sometimes due to hiccups on my computer's end, or the server... or something.
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