Maximum ST damage possible


Arcanaville

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silas View Post
That's what I was thinking. It was a while ago, so maybe things have changed. But I'm pretty sure even without the pets the Fire/Fire Dom put out some surprisingly high numbers, beating out the Fire/Elec Blaster too IIRC.
I don't know how that is possible. The Fire/Fire Dom doesn't get any Debuffs to help it's DPS, all it has are Blaster attacks with a lower damage modifier and a lower damage cap.
Doms do get Sleet as an epic power however but I don't think that will be enough to make the difference. If they are going to do more damage, it has to be due to a combination of Sleet and Fire Imps (even then, being at the damage cap would change that back in favour of the Blaster) but if pets are within the realm of the question, then it is completely irrelevant because nothing can even approach what a Crab is capable of.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
I don't know how that is possible. The Fire/Fire Dom doesn't get any Debuffs to help it's DPS, all it has are Blaster attacks with a lower damage modifier and a lower damage cap.
Doms do get Sleet as an epic power however but I don't think that will be enough to make the difference. If they are going to do more damage, it has to be due to a combination of Sleet and Fire Imps (even then, being at the damage cap would change that back in favour of the Blaster) but if pets are within the realm of the question, then it is completely irrelevant because nothing can even approach what a Crab is capable of.
I haven't run any numbers to compare Fire Doms with Fire Blasters, but it is worth noting that Fire Blast is better on Doms at the high end (shorter activation + more damage), and Embrace of Fire is potentially as good as or better than Build Up + Aim (in terms of over-time benefit, since you have half as much wasted cast time) at sufficient levels of recharge.

Sleet is also a pretty big deal; the more each build sells out to increase damage, the more important that -RES becomes.

I'm not sure the Dominator would win, mind, but at the extreme high end I think it'd be darn close.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze View Post
Nice build

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obitus View Post
I haven't run any numbers to compare Fire Doms with Fire Blasters, but it is worth noting that Fire Blast is better on Doms at the high end (shorter activation + more damage), and Embrace of Fire is potentially as good as or better than Build Up + Aim (in terms of over-time benefit, since you have half as much wasted cast time) at sufficient levels of recharge.

Sleet is also a pretty big deal; the more each build sells out to increase damage, the more important that -RES becomes.

I'm not sure the Dominator would win, mind, but at the extreme high end I think it'd be darn close.
The one fire/fire/mace top-end build that I am aware of (by Frosticus) was over 400dps before incarnates existed. I've never seen a blaster with those numbers. But am not saying it isn't possible.


"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obitus View Post
I haven't run any numbers to compare Fire Doms with Fire Blasters, but it is worth noting that Fire Blast is better on Doms at the high end (shorter activation + more damage), and Embrace of Fire is potentially as good as or better than Build Up + Aim (in terms of over-time benefit, since you have half as much wasted cast time) at sufficient levels of recharge.

Sleet is also a pretty big deal; the more each build sells out to increase damage, the more important that -RES becomes.

I'm not sure the Dominator would win, mind, but at the extreme high end I think it'd be darn close.
It was at an extreme high end build if I recall correctly (but for best DPS what isn't?). But both Mace Mastery and Ice Mastery come with -resist for the Dominator to tack on. And if I remember the thread, it was a Dominator that came out the best.

However, that said, if it wasn't the Dom, I don't think it would be the Blaster or Melee AT to win out, but rather a Something/Sonic Defender that would likely win out on the DPS, as it will stack the -Resists with -Regen (which is a big factor in all those AV/GMhunting builds of theirs).


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

keep in mind that for the premise of this thread, you are at the damage cap.
Whatever amount of +damage a combination is usually able to bring to the table is irrelevant.
What is relevant is your AT's damage cap, base damage, -resists effects, procs and whatever passive damage you can bring to the table (damage Auras, pets etc).

With that in mind, a Corruptor's higher damage cap, higher AT modifier and scourge are going to easily beat the extra debuffs a Defender can bring to the table. The higher damage cap alone should be enough to make the difference.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
keep in mind that for the premise of this thread, you are at the damage cap.
Whatever amount of +damage a combination is usually able to bring to the table is irrelevant.
What is relevant is your AT's damage cap, base damage, -resists effects, procs and whatever passive damage you can bring to the table (damage Auras, pets etc).

With that in mind, a Corruptor's higher damage cap, higher AT modifier and scourge are going to easily beat the extra debuffs a Defender can bring to the table. The higher damage cap alone should be enough to make the difference.
Awww yes, that's right at damage cap and recharge cap.

I'd give it to the Defender I think, as I believe it's Sonic Blast wins out doesn't it? All that -Resist tacked on with the -resist/-regen of the Primary.


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyro_Master_NA View Post
Ok all you number crunchers, here is a question I have for you. Hypothetical situation. You have capped recharge and capped damage at all times. You have no endurance issues at all. You are also impssible to kill and dont have to worry about getting hit ever. Now here's the challenge:

What AT and powerset combination under these conditions would pump out the highest single target damage? Keep in mind things like rage, AAO, and soul drain are pointless because theoretically we are talking about always being damage capped.

I'm guessing it will be something like a fire armor brute because of firery embrace going over the cap. Or maybe a sonic defender or corruptor.
Chuck Norris...


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaikenX View Post
Chuck Norris...
Haha that's what I was looing for! But I think I could rephrase it a bit from my first post. An attack chain is what I had in mind. A more realistic scenario is you have a pocket kin for damage, pocket emp for regen/recharge/defense, and a pocket pair of thermals for res. Then figure the max damage attack chain.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinergyX_EU View Post
Funny, he clearly say: ST attack, then you sum up Inferno and Blizzard, being AoE. (though u can use them on a single target, that is not a ST attack).

Though crash nukes are biased, it has a huge recharge and a massive crash, they are not really part of anyone's normal ST rotation.
Funny, you clearly ignored the part where a Crushing Uppercut critical does more than Assassin's Strike at combo level 3 along with my disclaimer which you snipped out of your quote.

Next are you going to claim that Crushing Uppercut doesn't count as a single target attack, that it doesn't count because it has to be combo level 3, or that because Assassin's Strike's double critical damage edges it slightly that it counts instead?

Or, since you can only seem to read a few words at a time: Learn to read.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyro_Master_NA View Post
Haha that's what I was looing for! But I think I could rephrase it a bit from my first post. An attack chain is what I had in mind. A more realistic scenario is you have a pocket kin for damage, pocket emp for regen/recharge/defense, and a pocket pair of thermals for res. Then figure the max damage attack chain.
You'll likely find that it's something with pets and resistance debuffs - like the Soldier mentioned earlier. But that's assuming the pets are focusing fire on the same target.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
Awww yes, that's right at damage cap and recharge cap.

I'd give it to the Defender I think, as I believe it's Sonic Blast wins out doesn't it? All that -Resist tacked on with the -resist/-regen of the Primary.
At the damage cap, the Corruptor is going to win out over a Defender - even with Sonic Blast giving the edge to Defenders, the 500% cap instead of 400% is too much for the resistance difference to overcome. It's why I recommend Corruptors and Controllers (where Containment bypasses their damage cap) for anyone wanting a Kinetic: it's one of the few sets that takes advantage of the higher cap for Corruptors.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

 

Posted

I gotta say, this is actually a really interesting thread. (Aside from the minor pee-pee contests)....

Some things really surprised me, like 'Crab'? Seriously? Never would have thought of that AT being a top damage dealer in anything but AoE's potentially? (I played one to mid 30's way back when they were the new black).

I am surprised I haven't heard more of my own favourite: Dark Melee/Shield Defense. The combination of the two is just fantastic. Shield picks up for Dark Melee's lack of AoE. I realize this is a tad off topic, but still the single target damage potential is very, very high.

This thread has given me some ideas of potential builds that I never thought of. Which is really great because after so many years, you can feel like you've tried everything. And obviously that isn't really true!

Some great ideas in here.


Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)

 

Posted

A Sonic Resonance Mastermind, maybe? Pair it with whatever pets do the most DPS.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Elektro_ View Post
I gotta say, this is actually a really interesting thread. (Aside from the minor pee-pee contests)....

Some things really surprised me, like 'Crab'? Seriously? Never would have thought of that AT being a top damage dealer in anything but AoE's potentially? (I played one to mid 30's way back when they were the new black).

I am surprised I haven't heard more of my own favourite: Dark Melee/Shield Defense. The combination of the two is just fantastic. Shield picks up for Dark Melee's lack of AoE. I realize this is a tad off topic, but still the single target damage potential is very, very high.

This thread has given me some ideas of potential builds that I never thought of. Which is really great because after so many years, you can feel like you've tried everything. And obviously that isn't really true!

Some great ideas in here.
Shield is an immediate loser in this specific contest because it is #1 AOE and #2 a buff set and he already said that all buffs are applied (assume at the damage cap without any use of your own abiilties). So with no bonus from AAO and shield charge being a mediocre single-target attack, shield falls behind other options.


"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.

 

Posted

If you're at the damage cap then /fire on a melee character for Fiery Embrace is going to go a long way towards helping out. Are you able to look at what kind of debuffs a class can do prior to the attack?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Elektro_ View Post
I gotta say, this is actually a really interesting thread. (Aside from the minor pee-pee contests)....

Some things really surprised me, like 'Crab'? Seriously? Never would have thought of that AT being a top damage dealer in anything but AoE's potentially? (I played one to mid 30's way back when they were the new black).

I am surprised I haven't heard more of my own favourite: Dark Melee/Shield Defense. The combination of the two is just fantastic. Shield picks up for Dark Melee's lack of AoE. I realize this is a tad off topic, but still the single target damage potential is very, very high.

This thread has given me some ideas of potential builds that I never thought of. Which is really great because after so many years, you can feel like you've tried everything. And obviously that isn't really true!

Some great ideas in here.
Crabs are really amazing.
Look at the build I posted earlier, it has a theoretical sustainable DPS of 251.626 + reactive procs + achilles procs + pet damage

Even before considering pets, most Brute's and Scrappers can't hold a candle to that.


 

Posted

Well I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tempted to pull my old crab out of hiding!

I haven't played him in eons... but you may have convinced me to look at your build and consider it!


Nekron: Beam Rifle / Poison Corruptor and Slayer of Evil!! (Exalted)
Intergalaktic: Fire / Time Corruptor (Exalted)

 

Posted

Here is the fire dom that is the highest damage dealer I know of:

Quote:
This is the build you were seeking. It's paper dps hovers around the 400 mark.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.621
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Dominator
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Assault
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Concealment
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Char
• (A) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Hold
• (37) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Recharge
• (37) Basilisk's Gaze - Recharge/Hold
• (40) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold
Level 1: Flares
• (A) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage
• (36) Decimation - Damage/Endurance
• (36) Decimation - Damage/Recharge
• (36) Decimation - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
• (37) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
Level 2: Incinerate
• (A) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage(Negative)
• (3) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge
• (3) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (34) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge
• (34) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance
• (48) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
Level 4: Fire Breath
• (A) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
• (5) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge
• (5) Positron's Blast - Damage/Range
• (31) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (34) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)
Level 6: Fire Cages
• (A) Gravitational Anchor - Immobilize/Recharge
• (7) Gravitational Anchor - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge
• (7) Gravitational Anchor - Accuracy/Recharge
• (31) Gravitational Anchor - Immobilize/Endurance
• (31) Gravitational Anchor - Chance for Hold
Level 8: Hot Feet
• (A) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge
• (9) Armageddon - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (9) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge
• (27) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance
• (29) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
• (29) Fury of the Gladiator - Chance for Res Debuff
Level 10: Fire Blast
• (A) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance
• (11) Devastation - Damage/Endurance
• (11) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (19) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (23) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage
• (27) Gladiator's Javelin - Chance of Damage(Toxic)
Level 12: Flashfire
• (A) Absolute Amazement - Stun/Recharge
• (13) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge
• (13) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Recharge
• (15) Absolute Amazement - Endurance/Stun
• (15) Absolute Amazement - Chance for ToHit Debuff
Level 14: Hurdle
• (A) Jumping IO
Level 16: Fiery Embrace
• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
• (17) Recharge Reduction IO
• (17) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 18: Health
• (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
• (19) Miracle - +Recovery
• (42) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
Level 20: Stamina
• (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
• (21) Performance Shifter - EndMod
• (21) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy
• (23) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge
• (48) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge
Level 22: Combustion
• (A) Obliteration - Damage
• (43) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
• (43) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
• (43) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (46) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 24: Hasten
• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
• (25) Recharge Reduction IO
• (25) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 26: Combat Jumping
• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
Level 28: Stealth
• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
Level 30: Invisibility
• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
Level 32: Fire Imps
• (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage
• (33) Expedient Reinforcement - Damage/Endurance
• (33) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (33) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge
Level 35: Consume
• (A) Accuracy IO
Level 38: Blaze
• (A) Apocalypse - Chance of Damage(Negative)
• (39) Apocalypse - Damage/Recharge
• (39) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (39) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Recharge
• (40) Apocalypse - Damage/Endurance
• (40) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance
Level 41: Poisonous Ray
• (A) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage
• (42) Devastation - Damage/Endurance
• (42) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (46) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff
• (48) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 44: Scorpion Shield
• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
• (45) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
• (45) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
• (45) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
• (46) Red Fortune - Endurance
Level 47: Personal Force Field
• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
Level 49: Summon Tarantula
• (A) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage/Recharge
• (50) Soulbound Allegiance - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (50) Soulbound Allegiance - Accuracy/Recharge
• (50) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage
------------
Level 1: Brawl
• (A) Empty
Level 1: Sprint
• (A) Empty
Level 2: Rest
• (A) Empty
Level 1: Domination
Level 0: Ninja Run
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
• 24.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
• 24.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
• 24.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
• 24.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
• 24.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
• 24.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
• 24.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
• 24.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
• 2.5% Defense(Energy)
• 2.5% Defense(Negative)
• 1.25% Defense(Ranged)
• 2.25% Max End
• 118.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
• 78% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• 5% FlySpeed
• 137.3 HP (13.5%) HitPoints
• 5% JumpHeight
• 5% JumpSpeed
• MezResist(Confused) 2.5%
• MezResist(Held) 2.5%
• MezResist(Immobilize) 7.45%
• MezResist(Sleep) 2.5%
• MezResist(Stun) 4.7%
• MezResist(Terrorized) 2.5%
• 23% (0.38 End/sec) Recovery
• 56% (2.38 HP/sec) Regeneration
• 12.9% Resistance(Fire)
• 12.9% Resistance(Cold)
• 5% RunSpeed
------------
Set Bonuses:
Basilisk's Gaze
(Char)
• 2.5% Defense(Energy,Negative), 1.25% Defense(Ranged)
• 2% (0.03 End/sec) Recovery
• 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Decimation
(Flares)
• MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
• 11.4 HP (1.13%) HitPoints
• 2.25% Max End
• 6.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Hecatomb
(Incinerate)
• 4% (0.07 End/sec) Recovery
• 2.52% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
• 15% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• 10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Positron's Blast
(Fire Breath)
• 2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery
• 1.58% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
• 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• 6.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Gravitational Anchor
(Fire Cages)
• 4% (0.07 End/sec) Recovery
• 2.52% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
• 15% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• 10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Armageddon
(Hot Feet)
• 4% (0.07 End/sec) Recovery
• 2.52% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
• 15% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• 10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Devastation
(Fire Blast)
• 12% (0.51 HP/sec) Regeneration
• 22.9 HP (2.25%) HitPoints
• 3% DamageBuff(All)
Absolute Amazement
(Flashfire)
• 4% (0.07 End/sec) Recovery
• 2.52% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
• 15% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• 10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Performance Shifter
(Stamina)
• 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed
• 19.1 HP (1.88%) HitPoints
• 2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery
• 2.5% DamageBuff(All)
Obliteration
(Combustion)
• MezResist(Stun) 2.2%
• 3% DamageBuff(All)
• 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Luck of the Gambler
(Combat Jumping)
• 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Luck of the Gambler
(Stealth)
• 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Luck of the Gambler
(Invisibility)
• 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Expedient Reinforcement
(Fire Imps)
• Status Resistance 2.5%
• 3% DamageBuff(All)
• 6.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Apocalypse
(Blaze)
• 16% (0.68 HP/sec) Regeneration
• 30.5 HP (3%) HitPoints
• 4% DamageBuff(All)
• 10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Devastation
(Poisonous Ray)
• 12% (0.51 HP/sec) Regeneration
• 22.9 HP (2.25%) HitPoints
• 3% DamageBuff(All)
Luck of the Gambler
(Scorpion Shield)
• 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Red Fortune
(Scorpion Shield)
• MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
• 1.26% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
• 2% DamageBuff(All)
Luck of the Gambler
(Personal Force Field)
• 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Soulbound Allegiance
(Summon Tarantula)
• 16% (0.68 HP/sec) Regeneration
• 30.5 HP (3%) HitPoints
• 4% DamageBuff(All)
I apologize if the mids stuff is gone, I am on a mac so I only saved the bit that I could use.

But it was doing 400+ dps with no incarnate powers and before inherent fitness. I tried to get anyone to improve it in the dom forums, but no one offered anything better. I am working to build this version, but would love to have an i21 update with even better numbers. If anyone can give me one. =)

EDIT: found Frosty's original post.


"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siolfir View Post
At the damage cap, the Corruptor is going to win out over a Defender - even with Sonic Blast giving the edge to Defenders, the 500% cap instead of 400% is too much for the resistance difference to overcome. It's why I recommend Corruptors and Controllers (where Containment bypasses their damage cap) for anyone wanting a Kinetic: it's one of the few sets that takes advantage of the higher cap for Corruptors.
Assuming my back of the envelope calculations are correct, if you were at the damage and recharge cap and cycled shriek, scream, and shout, including the stacking resistances the defender would stabilize at about 198 dps, the corruptor at about 252 dps, and the blaster at about 357 dps.

The reason it turns out that way is because the *proportional* difference in strength between the three in resistance buff is lower than it can appear. Suppose you quadruple stack the defender debuff (-20%) and the corruptor debuff (-15%). That's -80% and -60%. That looks like a big difference: 25% difference in fact. But that actually translates into 1.8x damage and 1.6x damage, and the proportional difference is actually only 1.8/1.6 = 1.125. In other words, the better defender debuff is translating into 12.5% more damage. But the corruptor ranged modifier is higher than the defender one, 0.75/0.65 = 1.154, or 15.4% higher. The corruptor modifier has a bigger edge than the defender debuff modifier, at least in terms of single target single character damage (the higher debuff would ultimately translate to a higher *team* benefit). That's before factoring in the damage cap difference.

The blaster situation is more pronounced: while its debuffs are even lower, it starts off with a 1.125/0.75 = 1.5 or 50% edge on the corruptor in damage modifier, and that's a gap the corruptor simply cannot make up in higher resistance debuff.


Incidentally, my suspicion is that overall it will be difficult to beat a Fire/Fire scrapper that is sitting at the recharge and damage cap. The net effect of having both the Fire DoT and Fiery Embrace more than half the time will be difficult to beat, even with debuffing masterminds (if pets responded to recharge, it would be no question masterminds).


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade View Post
Here is the fire dom that is the highest damage dealer I know of:



I apologize if the mids stuff is gone, I am on a mac so I only saved the bit that I could use.

But it was doing 400+ dps with no incarnate powers and before inherent fitness. I tried to get anyone to improve it in the dom forums, but no one offered anything better. I am working to build this version, but would love to have an i21 update with even better numbers. If anyone can give me one. =)

EDIT: found Frosty's original post.
I tried making a few updates to the build. I don't believe it lost any of it's original DPS with the changes, but I added the leadership toggles in place of where fitness was. I moved a couple slots out of health so I could put 2 HOs in Manuevers and 2% damage 2 piece bonus in Tactics. I wasn't sure if the recovery procs were necessary to sustain it or not, but if they were, Ageless could be used to make up for them.

For Incarnate I picked Musculature Core Paragon for the damage boost and Reactive Core for Interface. I wasn't sure which Reactive would result in more damage, but since the build has such high DPS it seemed like the higher -res chance would be better.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Dominator
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Assault
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Concealment
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Char
  • (A) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Hold: Level 30
  • (37) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 30
  • (37) Basilisk's Gaze - Recharge/Hold: Level 30
  • (40) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold: Level 30
Level 1: Flares
  • (A) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage: Level 40
  • (36) Decimation - Damage/Endurance: Level 40
  • (36) Decimation - Damage/Recharge: Level 40
  • (36) Decimation - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 40
  • (37) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 40
Level 2: Incinerate
  • (A) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage(Negative): Level 50
  • (3) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  • (3) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  • (34) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
  • (34) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
  • (48) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal): Level 50
Level 4: Fire Breath
  • (A) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
  • (5) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  • (5) Positron's Blast - Damage/Range: Level 50
  • (31) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50
  • (34) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy): Level 50
Level 6: Fire Cages
  • (A) Gravitational Anchor - Immobilize/Recharge: Level 50
  • (7) Gravitational Anchor - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge: Level 50
  • (7) Gravitational Anchor - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
  • (31) Gravitational Anchor - Immobilize/Endurance: Level 50
  • (31) Gravitational Anchor - Chance for Hold: Level 50
Level 8: Hot Feet
  • (A) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  • (9) Armageddon - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  • (9) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
  • (27) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
  • (29) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage: Level 50
  • (29) Fury of the Gladiator - Chance for Res Debuff: Level 50
Level 10: Fire Blast
  • (A) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
  • (11) Devastation - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
  • (11) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  • (19) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
  • (23) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
  • (27) Gladiator's Javelin - Chance of Damage(Toxic): Level 50
Level 12: Flashfire
  • (A) Absolute Amazement - Stun/Recharge: Level 50
  • (13) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge: Level 50
  • (13) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
  • (15) Absolute Amazement - Endurance/Stun: Level 50
  • (15) Absolute Amazement - Chance for ToHit Debuff: Level 50
Level 14: Maneuvers
  • (A) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure
  • (19) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure
Level 16: Embrace of Fire
  • (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
  • (17) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
  • (17) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
Level 18: Assault
  • (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50
Level 20: Tactics
  • (A) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Endurance: Level 50
  • (42) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
Level 22: Combustion
  • (A) Obliteration - Damage: Level 50
  • (43) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
  • (43) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  • (43) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  • (46) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
Level 24: Hasten
  • (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
  • (25) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
  • (25) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
Level 26: Combat Jumping
  • (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
Level 28: Stealth
  • (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
Level 30: Invisibility
  • (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
Level 32: Fire Imps
  • (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
  • (33) Expedient Reinforcement - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
  • (33) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  • (33) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
Level 35: Consume
  • (A) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
Level 38: Blaze
  • (A) Apocalypse - Chance of Damage(Negative): Level 50
  • (39) Apocalypse - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  • (39) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  • (39) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
  • (40) Apocalypse - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
  • (40) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
Level 41: Poisonous Ray
  • (A) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
  • (42) Devastation - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
  • (42) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  • (46) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff: Level 20
  • (48) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
Level 44: Scorpion Shield
  • (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
  • (45) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance: Level 50
  • (45) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge: Level 50
  • (45) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
  • (46) Red Fortune - Endurance: Level 50
Level 47: Personal Force Field
  • (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
Level 49: Summon Tarantula
  • (A) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  • (50) Soulbound Allegiance - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  • (50) Soulbound Allegiance - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
  • (50) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage: Level 50
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: Marshal
Level 50: Reactive Core Flawless Interface
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
------------
Level 1: Brawl
  • (A) Empty
Level 1: Sprint
  • (A) Empty
Level 2: Rest
  • (A) Empty
Level 1: Domination
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift
  • (A) Empty
Level 2: Health
  • (A) Miracle - +Recovery: Level 40
Level 2: Hurdle
  • (A) Empty
Level 2: Stamina
  • (A) Performance Shifter - EndMod: Level 50
  • (21) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge: Level 50
  • (21) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy: Level 50
  • (23) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
  • (48) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End: Level 50


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Posted

The -resist in the Interface isn't all that...the always in effect +dmg would be better, with the -resist likely always being in effect anways as the secondary would be the way for more damage I would think.


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obitus View Post
I haven't run any numbers to compare Fire Doms with Fire Blasters, but it is worth noting that Fire Blast is better on Doms at the high end (shorter activation + more damage), and Embrace of Fire is potentially as good as or better than Build Up + Aim (in terms of over-time benefit, since you have half as much wasted cast time) at sufficient levels of recharge.

Sleet is also a pretty big deal; the more each build sells out to increase damage, the more important that -RES becomes.

I'm not sure the Dominator would win, mind, but at the extreme high end I think it'd be darn close.
The Incinerate-Blaze-Fire Blast Chain is murderizing. If I didn't prefer ranged play, I'd dump my Blaze-Fire Blast-Char (.5 sec pause) chain for it. Heck, I get 188 DPS with the pause and that's before taking into account damage buffs like Assault / Embrace of Fire / Musculature and a high end Reactive proc.


 

Posted

I think it's already clear to the Arcana's of the forums, but it may be helpful to clarify that we're talking specifically about sustained average damage to a single target over a long period of time.

Technically speaking, the maximum damage possible is probably a Scrapper. That's because it is possible, but unlikely, for the Scrapper to get a critical hit on every attack. This is very unlikely in a long fight. But in a fight where two crits could kill a target, it happens about once every 100 enemies.

Corruptor Scourge is also extremely difficult to place an objective value on outside of regular fights. A lot of this is because the meaning of overkill damage is difficult to evaluate. Strictly speaking, Scourge only adds extra damage if the enemy is killed because Scourge damage contributed. This will happen any time the enemy either 1) takes some amount of Scourge damage and survives it or 2) takes some amount of normal damage and survives that, but is killed by the tacked on Scourge damage.

Sometimes the statement about Scourge above is used to show that Scourge isn't very good; in fact, what it really shows is that "damage values" themselves are not the only measurement in play. Another measurement, that doesn't get a lot of attention from what I can see, is how many animation casts it costs to down the enemy. This is roughly related to DPA but is not exactly the same thing, because DPA is a measure of a steady stream of damage. Equally as important are the whole power casts you bypass if an enemy dies before the next attack. It's also very difficult to measure because it goes completely against the idea of "attack chains"; the best power to cast on enemy that is near death is the one that kills it and sacrifices the least. In some cases this may actually mean having an additional power that is never part of your "chain" and is used strictly as an executioners button. Two kinds of powers that work exactly like this but are rarely called out as such are damage auras and high damage pets, who aren't just useful for the added damage but also for the subtracted power animation investment if used in that way.

That isn't to say that what's been measured elsewhere in this thread isn't useful information. It's just part of the picture.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Assuming my back of the envelope calculations are correct, if you were at the damage and recharge cap and cycled shriek, scream, and shout, including the stacking resistances the defender would stabilize at about 198 dps, the corruptor at about 252 dps, and the blaster at about 357 dps.

The reason it turns out that way is because the *proportional* difference in strength between the three in resistance buff is lower than it can appear. Suppose you quadruple stack the defender debuff (-20%) and the corruptor debuff (-15%). That's -80% and -60%. That looks like a big difference: 25% difference in fact. But that actually translates into 1.8x damage and 1.6x damage, and the proportional difference is actually only 1.8/1.6 = 1.125. In other words, the better defender debuff is translating into 12.5% more damage. But the corruptor ranged modifier is higher than the defender one, 0.75/0.65 = 1.154, or 15.4% higher. The corruptor modifier has a bigger edge than the defender debuff modifier, at least in terms of single target single character damage (the higher debuff would ultimately translate to a higher *team* benefit). That's before factoring in the damage cap difference.

The blaster situation is more pronounced: while its debuffs are even lower, it starts off with a 1.125/0.75 = 1.5 or 50% edge on the corruptor in damage modifier, and that's a gap the corruptor simply cannot make up in higher resistance debuff.


Incidentally, my suspicion is that overall it will be difficult to beat a Fire/Fire scrapper that is sitting at the recharge and damage cap. The net effect of having both the Fire DoT and Fiery Embrace more than half the time will be difficult to beat, even with debuffing masterminds (if pets responded to recharge, it would be no question masterminds).
Objection! -Resist is not additive, it is multiplicative. Four -15% debuffs does not compound into x1.6 damage, it compounds into x1.749 damage. Four -20% debuffs does not compound into x1.8 damage, it compounds into x2.0736 damage. An 18% proportional difference - were it not for the damage cap, the defender would surpass the corruptor here.


Jerk 4 Life
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
I think it's already clear to the Arcana's of the forums, but it may be helpful to clarify that we're talking specifically about sustained average damage to a single target over a long period of time.
True, and lots of real world effects complicate matters. For example, some attack chains rely on stacking resistance debuffs, but that takes time to ramp up.

As an aside, one thing that came up while I was thinking about this question was Oil Slick Arrow. Its cast time is actually quite low compared to its total damage potential. In damage scale terms I believe it approaches 4.0 DS/sec if you do not specifically factor in extra time to ignite it (i.e. if its used in an environment where it can be ignited automatically or as a side effect of some other power). I just couldn't think of a way to leverage that high DPA given its long recharge: even at the recharge cap its still recharging in 36 seconds, which means it cannot be chained to autoignite (15 second burn time). And its net benefit gets diluted because it can only be used occasionally.


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