Locked hospital doors seem to be widely hated...
By
Chyll,
Posted on: 2011-10-08 21:24 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Gotta agree.
It's to limit zerging the Trials and to give some downtime to hitting hospital. Gives some benefit to actually using player rez powers too.
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I'll tell you 'why', but you probably still won't like it.... |
Originally Posted by TeChameleon
And I guess my question is, does that matter? Have the devs said anything one way or another (my search-fu on this has proven weak), or are we just kind of stuck with it for no stated reason?
I mean, no response to my whining about them during trials has been positive, and the stated reason for them doesn't really hold up, given that the most likely result of trying to regroup in the hospital would be getting trapped behind those sodding doors again. The actual effect of the locking doors is 'get the hell out of the hospital as fast as you are physically able' and reactions ranging from annoyance to frothing hatred. Why is this irritating mechanic getting foisted on us still? It's not working as intended (if the stated reason is, in fact, the real reason, anyways), it's not fun, and at best it's aggravating. |
During the beta testing for the first iTrials, the Devs wanted there to be a real penalty for 'death'... not just immediately rushing into battle to overwhelm the foes.
First attempt was sending one back to the hospital where you zoned in from, e.g., Pocket D or Altas Park. We then pointed out that unduly penalized the slow loaders.
Then they put a field hospital right in the zone, but, to stop the rushing, they put a 1,000 mag stun on us for 10 seconds (or was it a hold for 20 seconds? doesn't matter at this point...). But you came out of the mez with little health and end... a real detriment for summoners and togglers.
Then they tried an Immobilize which allowed resummoning without re-entering until the Immob wore off. But, with the BAF, individuals rushing back in were being immediately picked off by the turrets.
So, they went with a hospital with a timed door so that those who 'died' came back in together in waves to get past the turrets. And that's why we have locked hospital doors. It's a death penalty. If you don't like it, then don't die.
It's also something very, very, very unlikely to be done away with. The designers were pretty adamant that there be some penalty for being defeated.... It's not like level 50s worry too much about debt.
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I hadn't really thought about it. I found the locked doors mildly irritating, but really, not a biggie. Put in this context, though, I'm actually glad about it. Having pretty much zilch as a penalty for dying in this game has been one of my pet peeves for quite a while. Back in the old days, the penalty was too harsh. Now, it's like they've overcompensated and made it completely inconsequential.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
It's also something very, very, very unlikely to be done away with. The designers were pretty adamant that there be some penalty for being defeated.... It's not like level 50s worry too much about debt.
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Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not for needlessly irritating people with arbitrary penalties, but the fact is that when there's no death penalty, most people completely stop caring about dying and it encourages people to just run roughshod into any battle mashing buttons with zero thought or planning. I don't think that City of Heroes should strive to be a chess match or battle simulation, but I don't really like the thought of it being a glorified Track & Field, either.
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Originally Posted by TonyV
I hadn't really thought about it. I found the locked doors mildly irritating, but really, not a biggie. Put in this context, though, I'm actually glad about it. Having pretty much zilch as a penalty for dying in this game has been one of my pet peeves for quite a while. Back in the old days, the penalty was too harsh. Now, it's like they've overcompensated and made it completely inconsequential.
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not for needlessly irritating people with arbitrary penalties, but the fact is that when there's no death penalty, most people completely stop caring about dying and it encourages people to just run roughshod into any battle mashing buttons with zero thought or planning. I don't think that City of Heroes should strive to be a chess match or battle simulation, but I don't really like the thought of it being a glorified Track & Field, either. |
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
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I wish they would change it to simply being a personal 30s timer - this way players wont make a mad dash for the door without adequate preparation (such as buying insps). You also can leave whenever you're ready - in the Keyes trial you'll get hit by the Antimatter pulse if you exit at the first opportunity.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
So, they went with a hospital with a timed door so that those who 'died' came back in together in waves to get past the turrets. And that's why we have locked hospital doors. It's a death penalty. If you don't like it, then don't die.
It's also something very, very, very unlikely to be done away with. The designers were pretty adamant that there be some penalty for being defeated.... It's not like level 50s worry too much about debt. |
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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That's not what I'm seeing. I'm seeing that the doors open right after a pulse.
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Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
in the Keyes trial you'll get hit by the Antimatter pulse if you exit at the first opportunity.
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I don't have a problem with the timer on the hospital doors in the Lambda, BAF or Keyes trial, however in both the Underground trial and the lowbie Death from Below trial the timer makes no sense and is an extra, unnecessary delay because in both of these you have to take a teleporter outside the hospital to get back into the trial and in many cases even after taking the teleporter you have to travel a good distance to catch up to the main group.
When the entire trial is essentially one large area right outside the hospital, the timer on the doors does prevent possible exploits. However with the last two trials essentially being long dungeon crawls the timer just adds more time out of combat and action and at least in the case of the underground trial, making an already long trial even longer.
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Thanks for the explanation and thanks for making sure that this elegant solution is used instead of those horrible earlier ideas.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
I'll tell you 'why', but you probably still won't like it....
During the beta testing for the first iTrials, the Devs wanted there to be a real penalty for 'death'... not just immediately rushing into battle to overwhelm the foes. |
Complaining about the locked hospital doors in iTrials is like complaining about the food in prison.
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Well, for many of my characters, dying in lambda has a penalty of 6-7 additional deaths trying to rejoin the group. A similar thing can happen in keyes too if you don't have a good self heal. BAF is different, but that's part of the reason it is run more than the others.
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Originally Posted by TonyV
I hadn't really thought about it. I found the locked doors mildly irritating, but really, not a biggie. Put in this context, though, I'm actually glad about it. Having pretty much zilch as a penalty for dying in this game has been one of my pet peeves for quite a while.
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I have a choice about not going to prison.
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Originally Posted by Daemodand
Complaining about the locked hospital doors in iTrials is like complaining about the food in prison.
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I don't... really get the metaphor? |
Originally Posted by Daemodand
Complaining about the locked hospital doors in iTrials is like complaining about the food in prison.
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Prison food is gross. Why wouldn't you complain about it?
It never crossed my mind to complain about the doors. It's a delay of, what, ten seconds? The first time I even noticed it was during a recent underground, when I was very grateful that I had other players to follow back into the action. I know there's a teleporter right there, but I still got lost sometimes, and I wasn't the only one.
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1-20 seconds. So, on average, 10.
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Originally Posted by peterpeter
It never crossed my mind to complain about the doors. It's a delay of, what, ten seconds?
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It's a delay of 0-20 seconds if you're ready to go, and a delay of 30-50 seconds if you need to prep and miss the current unlock.
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Originally Posted by peterpeter
It never crossed my mind to complain about the doors. It's a delay of, what, ten seconds? The first time I even noticed it was during a recent underground, when I was very grateful that I had other players to follow back into the action. I know there's a teleporter right there, but I still got lost sometimes, and I wasn't the only one.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
I'll tell you 'why', but you probably still won't like it....
During the beta testing for the first iTrials, the Devs wanted there to be a real penalty for 'death'... not just immediately rushing into battle to overwhelm the foes. First attempt was sending one back to the hospital where you zoned in from, e.g., Pocket D or Altas Park. We then pointed out that unduly penalized the slow loaders. Then they put a field hospital right in the zone, but, to stop the rushing, they put a 1,000 mag stun on us for 10 seconds (or was it a hold for 20 seconds? doesn't matter at this point...). But you came out of the mez with little health and end... a real detriment for summoners and togglers. Then they tried an Immobilize which allowed resummoning without re-entering until the Immob wore off. But, with the BAF, individuals rushing back in were being immediately picked off by the turrets. So, they went with a hospital with a timed door so that those who 'died' came back in together in waves to get past the turrets. And that's why we have locked hospital doors. It's a death penalty. If you don't like it, then don't die. It's also something very, very, very unlikely to be done away with. The designers were pretty adamant that there be some penalty for being defeated.... It's not like level 50s worry too much about debt. |
Okay this makes sense and like most the 20 second, max, wait is only a minor annoyance.
But my question now exactly why did the devs feel the need to penalize anyone for dying. I could very easily tag along on a BAF with a brand new 50 + nothing and hide out at the entrance while the league battled .. collecting astrals, emps, threads, XP and even badges /components and never DIE once because I was no where near the battle. Sure I'd probably only get the minimum 10 thread reward but until I had all my powers to teir 2 and wanted to start working on teir 3's .. the only people that would care are the team mates I'd be expecting to work for me. [let me clarify I NEVER team that way.. I will always be in the thick of things and if I die .. I die!].
So the devs put one system in place to ensure people don't benefit from door sitting.. the reward table (and that minimum 10 thread for just being there) and then turn right around and feel the need to somehow PUNISH me if my brand new incarnate with alpha open but not even slotted dies trying to battle level 54. Then they futher complicate the mess by creating a trial where a laser, or whatever its supposed to be, from outer space constantly delivers attack after attack that auto drains at a minimum 50% of any characters health. The set up the lambda so players are forced to totally ignore the mobs firing at them while the race against the clock to find and take out all of the glowies.. and squishies spend as much time running back and forth from the hospital as they do in the warehouse or lab.
I don't even do the Keyes trial anymore because its annoying and even done right always seems like a cluster ... to me. Lambdas.. I do until in open up the powers and then it depends on the character. My tanks, scrappers, SoA and even a few controllers .. will join one in a heart beat. My defenders and blasters don't go near them if they don't need to. But if i am participating in any trial I will give 100% all the time and if that means I die then so be it! That's called being a team player in a game geared toward team play.. so some DEV decided they needed to PUNISH us for that.. that's Brilliant (NOT) lol
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.. I think Wendy has pinpointed a major source of my loathing for the locked door. The devs have set things up so that the optimum way to run the Lambda, especially, involves a high-speed scavenger hunt that will murder squishies over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
I don't know; maybe I just suck at Lambda-ing. But the single-minded insistence that the only way to do it is for everyone to rush off the second the box/tube-thing is dead, leaving any squishy unlucky enough to be trapped in an animation because they were actually helping kill the damn thing to die horribly and be trapped in the hospital. Again. Because at that point, typically the only things left alive are bosses. Which do obscene amounts of damage, even to a +3 squishy.
And the Keyes... yeah. "Do this perfectly, and with loads and loads and loads of dedicated healers that we've been teaching you for the entire rest of the game aren't necessary, or be locked in a hospital repeatedly!" Whee. Not doing that crap again.
The Underground Trial? No clue, I've only ever managed to do it once, and we wiped completely against the first regenerating whatever it is. *shrug*
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Keyes doesn't need (that many) healers if people /move/ and actually use inspirations in my experience.
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okay let me clarify. I never said I Hate any of the trials. I just have ones I enjoy and ones I can live without..
So Wendy rates the trials ..
1. BAF.. hands down the easiest to complete successfully. Even the prisoner escape phase is down to practically a science and in most cases I leave with 5 or 6 Astrals and my Emp
2. Lambda .. Easier to fill and recruit for because it requires less people. Faster to complete especially since most people do speed runs now and skip everything in the street. The glowie phase can be a nightmare for some squishies [defenders, contollers (some not all), blasters, etc] but at least one or more players on any team has the routes down cold now and you wind up back outside with 10 and 10 waiting to strike Maurader. Does it annoy anyone beside me, when i am on a debuffer anyway, that Maurader is like a super ball bouncing from spot to spot to spot. Yo.. dude you just drank from the well of the furies stand still and fight me .. stop running like a rabbit LOL
3. The Underground .. the longest trial to date.. at least the ones I have been on have taken close to an hour to finish. I can do 2 BAF or 3 LAM in that same time frame. Biggest areas that drive players nuts are the lichen healed Warworks.. I was on one trial that failed because so any people were busy taking out the healers they forgot to attack the AV. lol
The hardest part is the final chamber.. Hamidon has an awesome confuse however I am looking forward to my next run.. Everyone knows to pack clarion now And I got some great advice.. Hamidon's confuse is a forward cone.. get behind him and it does nothing and you can concentrate on killing him.
4. Keyes .. my least popular and the one i see recruiting for the least. problems with it are simple. A constant source of damage that you have absolutely no way to shut off. A set up that has you collect temps and then .. requires you to actually bring the AV to the spot where you want to use the temp. Don't attack the AV, even though he will probably attack you, cause the more you do damage to him the stronger that damaging pulse gets! Now they do give you plenty of time to complete each reactor phase.. added time is necessary since so many players need the time to run back from the hospital again and again. then you hit the final phase and Anti-Matter can obliterate you with one shot if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time.. which increases his health. And he can, and does, freeze time and heal while the entire league dangles in mid air.
Now.. I can't say how many successful BAF and LAMs i have been on I lost track a long time ago but I have done 7 Keyes trials and succeeded 6 of 7 times. the only failure was when we ran out of time trying to defeat Anti-Matter. To date I have done 3 Underground trials and enjoyed all of them. Only one was a success but we got to the final chamber and fought hamidon on the second and the third died mainly because too many people were attacking the healing lichen and almost no one was battling the AV. hehehe
I will run BAFs or LAM anytime and have no problem with the UG as long as I have enough time. BUT I gave up on the Keyes.. Last time I was even near one a leader advertised he was recruiting for a BAF so i sent a tell and joined and then at the last minute decided to do a Keyes instead. When I arrived on Keyes Island I QUIT the team and went back to the rwz and found a BAF.. funny thing is apparently I wasn't the only player that was unhappy 4 or 5 players that were on that same league that found itself facing keyes were on that same BAF run with me. THEY All quit!
The door issue is a minor annoyance.. now if it left the game tomorrow I'd be perfectly happy. I think what really bugs me most is that message you get when you click the door.. you know the one that makes it sound like they are trying to protect you. "Hey its really dangerous out there. maybe you should stay in here for say ohhhh 20 seconds"
"HEY if you were so dang worried about my health why did you send me to attack a facility with cannons on the walls, and a ton of troops guarding it, and an AV in charge that hits like a freight train in the first place! I'm a big girl and I have super powers. Now open the &%$@ door and let me do my job!" lol
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I'd just like to point out that Primal Earth's mightiest heroes dipping into heretofore unreachable sources of power in a cosmic power-up race...
...are being held back by a couple of hospital doors.
Conceptually, it's pretty darned stupid. All we have to do is to lure Tyrant into the hospital and keep the doors closed, right? Hospitals>Incarnates.
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Hospital nothing. Two words: Police. Drones.
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Originally Posted by Smersh
Conceptually, it's pretty darned stupid. All we have to do is to lure Tyrant into the hospital and keep the doors closed, right? Hospitals>Incarnates.
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Yes, they were horrid. Really bad.|
Originally Posted by Gunbunny
Thanks for the explanation and thanks for making sure that this elegant solution is used instead of those horrible earlier ideas.
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I for one welcome our locked hospital doors.
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Interesting. I never saw it go over ten seconds, so I assumed it was 0-10 with an average of 5 seconds. I ran to the door first, and then started turning my toggles on, so I could go out as soon as it unlocked, even if I wasn't all the way toggled up. For the Underground at least there was no risk of stepping right into danger. I can see how 20 seconds could be twice as annoying as ten seconds, though personally that still isn't annoying enough to notice.
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Originally Posted by Katie V
It's a delay of 0-20 seconds if you're ready to go, and a delay of 30-50 seconds if you need to prep and miss the current unlock.
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And I guess my question is, does that matter? Have the devs said anything one way or another (my search-fu on this has proven weak), or are we just kind of stuck with it for no stated reason?
I mean, no response to my whining about them during trials has been positive, and the stated reason for them doesn't really hold up, given that the most likely result of trying to regroup in the hospital would be getting trapped behind those sodding doors again.
The actual effect of the locking doors is 'get the hell out of the hospital as fast as you are physically able' and reactions ranging from annoyance to frothing hatred. Why is this irritating mechanic getting foisted on us still? It's not working as intended (if the stated reason is, in fact, the real reason, anyways), it's not fun, and at best it's aggravating.
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