Premium chat: Got to be a compromise
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2011-10-08 18:44 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Just add something to the market like 'free chat access' for 800 points or something which lifts all the chat restrictions a free-player would typically have.
It *is* Tier 3, I'm not sure what your complaint is? Better explanation for to be having please?
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
|
Quote:
I don't see it as a tier 3 unlock, they can whisper, talk in team, but they can't join a custom channel.
|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
It *is* Tier 3, I'm not sure what your complaint is? Better explanation for to be having please?
|
Quote:
If they fill tier 3 completely, accounts get access to all chat channels.
|
Originally Posted by Virfortis
I don't see it as a tier 3 unlock, they can whisper, talk in team, but they can't join a custom channel.
|
Quote:
$45 to get a decent chat capability?|
Originally Posted by Morgan Reed
If they fill tier 3 completely, accounts get access to all chat channels.
|
That's pathetic, even by "business is to make money" standards. Good way to tick off the VIPs AND alienate new players in the same go. Sure, that just sounded a bit rant-ish, but this is ridiculous.
Quote:
Rephrase with less rant-ishness in a PM to NCSoft_Zwillinger and he will see to it that your words reach the marketing people and the devs.|
Originally Posted by Virfortis
$45 to get a decent chat capability?
That's pathetic, even by "business is to make money" standards. Good way to tick off the VIPs AND alienate new players in the same go. Sure, that just sounded a bit rant-ish, but this is ridiculous. |
This is a new system and a great time to suggest reasonable modifications.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
Quote:
Or they can, y'know, wait a couple months for their rewards level to do this.|
Originally Posted by Virfortis
$45 to get a decent chat capability?
That's pathetic, even by "business is to make money" standards. Good way to tick off the VIPs AND alienate new players in the same go. Sure, that just sounded a bit rant-ish, but this is ridiculous. |
Or mix and match spending cash and waiting...
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
Theres a good chance they wont stick around if they have a hard time making friends due to difficulties chatting...
|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Or they can, y'know, wait a couple months for their rewards level to do this.
Or mix and match spending cash and waiting... |
Jay Doherty: Yes, there was this one night that I was ready to go home but had to drop the browns off at the super bowl before I left for home. While on the throne it hit me. I stayed for a few more hours and that why we have the pain pads in the game.
Quote:
I didn't think waiting would get them anywhere as a Premium? Thought it was only months *subscribed* that got you reward tokens.
|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Or they can, y'know, wait a couple months for their rewards level to do this.
|
Quote:
No, $45 to get decent chat capability and a crapton of other stuff. I would actually fork over an extra $5 to snag the bonus 600 Paragon Points (4600 total), which would provide a pretty durn big bucket of points to permanently add access to powersets, costumes, "perk powers" (rocketboard, jump jet, ...), unlocked character slots, and so on. So yeah, framing it as "I've got to pay $45 just to get chat channels!" is a gross misrepresentation and an extremely cynical presumption that that is the only thing one would want to obtain.|
Originally Posted by Virfortis
$45 to get a decent chat capability?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Virfortis
That's pathetic, even by "business is to make money" standards. Good way to tick off the VIPs AND alienate new players in the same go. Sure, that just sounded a bit rant-ish, but this is ridiculous.
|
Having said that, I do agree that free players need access to a server-wide chat channel that is preferably not the help channel so that they can solicit invitations to teams, trials, etc. I think that's a reasonable compromise between locking them out almost completely and giving them access to broadcast and/or global channels.
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
Quote:
I think that's key in getting new players to buy into the game, which is what everyone ultimately wants and will help ensure a long future for us all to enjoy. I realise that chat functionality is a relatively small purchase away but if people can't easily communicate they won't 'want' to spend money on the game in the first place.|
Originally Posted by TonyV
Having said that, I do agree that free players need access to a server-wide chat channel that is preferably not the help channel so that they can solicit invitations to teams, trials, etc. I think that's a reasonable compromise between locking them out almost completely and giving them access to broadcast and/or global channels.
|
The single biggest draw of this game is it's community, gating that just doesn't make people want to shell out.
Wow, I never thought I'd see people be AGAINST something to make it easier for people to like and play the game...
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
 |
Quote:
Me either, I couldn't understand why so many seem so adamantly against something I couldn't see anything but postives from. I didn't think being able to reply-only to tells would be useable by RMTers.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Wow, I never thought I'd see people be AGAINST something to make it easier for people to like and play the game...
|
However, I've recently been informed that indeed, RMTers will abuse being able to reply to tells. By sitting around and waiting for someone to try and invite them with one I suppose, still not sure on the specifics...
Honestly though, at this point I'm willing to believe it's a SCR issue. That coding for one-way only replies might not be possible, or at least feasible.
I just want to reach a 'Happy middle-ground' that has enough restrictions to prevent RMT from taking root while still being an enticement to go Premium but doesn't isolate the free players to the detriment of their enjoyment.
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
An 'easier' (percieved) solution would be to simply have an extra 'ignored as spammer' list that you can use to blam RMT's onto if they bother you. I mean, are people seriously incapable of putting these idiots on ignore?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
How about...
When a custom Chat Channel is created, a toggle can be put on that allows Free Player Access. A command that can be switched on and off by any nominated moderator of that custom Chat Channel.
Then, y'know, people that have created their own Chat Channels can decide for themselves if they want to see F2P accounts speaking on their channel or not.
Also gives a chance for Community Leaders to create havens for the F2P players, promoting community cohesion and giving chances for new community groups to form. New community groups including F2P players would encourage them to stick around, and gives them exposure to customers (Premium/VIP) that are actually positive community examples (because they're taking the time to willingly interact with the F2Pers).
---
How about that?
Forse: lvl 22 FF/NRG Defender
Tam Krannock: lvl 37 Shield/Mace Tanker
Toppa Grace: lvl 25 Fire/Ice Blaster
----
Red Commissar: I'm in the Queen Mother. Only more awesome. And alive
Quote:
Judging by the email boxes of my older characters, ignore/spam is not strong enough. They just make new accounts and spam again.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
An 'easier' (percieved) solution would be to simply have an extra 'ignored as spammer' list that you can use to blam RMT's onto if they bother you. I mean, are people seriously incapable of putting these idiots on ignore?
|
One problem with allowing F2P players to reply to tells is that once you tell to them once, they can reply to you forever (until they log off). However, I don't see how allowing them into a player-created channel can be abused if they can be kicked back out of it. I've never tried to kick anyone off of a channel, so I honestly don't know.
I suppose a spammer could wait until no admins are in the channel, then spam, but I'm not sure how often that could crop up.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
Quote:
Channels already have a "mute by default" option (See: Virtue TF chat) so that's fairly redundant. I'm talking about premium (not free) players being able to join if invited.|
Originally Posted by Forse
How about...
When a custom Chat Channel is created, a toggle can be put on that allows Free Player Access. A command that can be switched on and off by any nominated moderator of that custom Chat Channel. Then, y'know, people that have created their own Chat Channels can decide for themselves if they want to see F2P accounts speaking on their channel or not. Also gives a chance for Community Leaders to create havens for the F2P players, promoting community cohesion and giving chances for new community groups to form. New community groups including F2P players would encourage them to stick around, and gives them exposure to customers (Premium/VIP) that are actually positive community examples (because they're taking the time to willingly interact with the F2Pers). --- How about that? |
Also, I'm not talking about making it a $5 purchase, I'm talking about making it something you get from putting a token into tier 3, not finishing tier 3, which makes it a purchase of only $15, not $45.
Also, I get more you say? What if I don't want more? What if I just want chat and not Greek letters/kilts/hoverboard? My friend just want to be able to join the SG OOC channel, even if they have to be unmuted by the admin before they can talk (which we already do).
Lastly, just pay more? What if we don't HAVE more? I'll be skipping lunch for the next 5 days to pay for my friend's $15, I can't afford to keep doing that.
Why not just add a new option under the control panel that turns off tells FROM F2p people? So if you are really that threatened by RMTers you just flip it and no more F2P tells...
Jay Doherty: Yes, there was this one night that I was ready to go home but had to drop the browns off at the super bowl before I left for home. While on the throne it hit me. I stayed for a few more hours and that why we have the pain pads in the game.
Quote:
This isn't about RMT, F2P, server channels, this is about Premium players and custom, player made, global channels.|
Originally Posted by CommunistPenguin
Why not just add a new option under the control panel that turns off tells FROM F2p people? So if you are really that threatened by RMTers you just flip it and no more F2P tells...
|
The $45 price tag on chat restrictions (hang the rest of the bonuses, most premium players don't want them) is an overzealous anti-laziness scheme. Are we seriously going to sit here and say that there is no alternative when we have a perfectly good and working brain that can check the "silence on joining" button and un-silence players ONLY after whispering to see if they're legit? Is it just laziness or lack of responsibility? Are we going to have some cascade failure if players who create a chat room have to monitor it? I don't feel like I'm being protected, I feel like I'm being told I'm not smart or responsible enough to handle the situation myself.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
Judging by the email boxes of my older characters, ignore/spam is not strong enough. They just make new accounts and spam again.
One problem with allowing F2P players to reply to tells is that once you tell to them once, they can reply to you forever (until they log off). However, I don't see how allowing them into a player-created channel can be abused if they can be kicked back out of it. I've never tried to kick anyone off of a channel, so I honestly don't know. I suppose a spammer could wait until no admins are in the channel, then spam, but I'm not sure how often that could crop up. |
The other thing about this is email is not the same as chat. The RMTers who were spamming email could run scripts over long periods of time and eventually it would reach you because email sticks around. Tells work differently than that; if they miss you for some reason it never reaches you. Case in point, while I received tons of spam email, not once in 3 years of playing have I gotten a /tell from a spam bot. And even that can be severely limited by putting a timer how frequently you are able to chat. Standard Code Rant applies, but you may even be able to reuse the timer on emails for all channels.
My Idea would be to let Free players be invited to join channels/SG's but have the reward tier unlock be required for Starting/Modding.
as a Side note/tangent, When I heard about the announcement I was planning on starting a weekly night for members of the tabletop gamers group I get together with, but with the restriction on SG's channels Increasing the difficulty of coordination, I scrapped it
On Justice
Global @Desi Nova Twitter: @desi_nova Steam: Desi_nova. I don't do Xbox or PS3
Quote:
Prior to their use of E-mails, the RMT's would routinely spam tells.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
The other thing about this is email is not the same as chat. The RMTers who were spamming email could run scripts over long periods of time and eventually it would reach you because email sticks around. Tells work differently than that; if they miss you for some reason it never reaches you. Case in point, while I received tons of spam email, not once in 3 years of playing have I gotten a /tell from a spam bot. And even that can be severely limited by putting a timer how frequently you are able to chat. Standard Code Rant applies, but you may even be able to reuse the timer on emails for all channels.
|
being on /hide didn't help, if they had you name in their list, a tell would be sent.
I will be very unhappy if NCsoft allows unrestricted tells to free accounts, but thankfully I don't see that happening.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Solution: Make your SG chat OOC and make your Coalition chat RP.
You have access to both chat channels in a SG. Make use of them.
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
Quote:
In China they actually have prisoners working for RMT.|
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
Me either, I couldn't understand why so many seem so adamantly against something I couldn't see anything but postives from. I didn't think being able to reply-only to tells would be useable by RMTers.
However, I've recently been informed that indeed, RMTers will abuse being able to reply to tells. By sitting around and waiting for someone to try and invite them with one I suppose, still not sure on the specifics... |
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...et-gaming-scam
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
An 'easier' (percieved) solution would be to simply have an extra 'ignored as spammer' list that you can use to blam RMT's onto if they bother you. I mean, are people seriously incapable of putting these idiots on ignore?
|
Since the recent F2P update, our SG has been getting quite a number of recruits. Players will go premium to gain access but there's just one problem:
They can't use our OOC chat.
This is a HUGE oversight. I get that there's this overzealous obsession with keeping RWT out, but if someone pays $15, I think it's safe to say they should be able to at least have the ability to BE INVITED to a custom channel without worrying about RWT spam. I can understand keeping the $5 group out, but make it a tier 3 token please and NOT fill tier 3, just one tier 3 token. this just isn't going over well with the RPers. Ya know, Virtue server? Majority RPers? Tons of people? This is even bugging the VIPs a lot.
Edit: This isn't about RMT, F2P, server channels, this is about Premium players and custom, player made, global channels.
The $45 price tag on chat restrictions (hang the rest of the bonuses, most premium players don't want them) is a very big gap as far as the RP community is concerned. Are we seriously going to sit here and say that we are incapable of stopping RMT when we have a perfectly good and working brain that can check the "silence on joining" button and un-silence players ONLY after whispering to see if they're legit? Is it just laziness or lack of responsibility? Are we going to have some cascade failure if players who create a chat room have to monitor it? Is a single RMT whisper going to horrify and scar a person for life? Is that REALLY the case here?