Premium chat: Got to be a compromise
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2011-10-08 18:44 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
If someone talks about free players one more time I'm going to blow my fuse and get banned.
I'm talking about PREMIUM players! READ!
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That we got so many chat restrictions on trial accounts (and now on free accounts) due to the amount of whining on the boards since years should be proof enough.
| An 'easier' (percieved) solution would be to simply have an extra 'ignored as spammer' list that you can use to blam RMT's onto if they bother you. I mean, are people seriously incapable of putting these idiots on ignore? |
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If a person previously had an account for 6 months to a year I would have no issue with giving them SOME chat capability right off the bat.|
Originally Posted by Virfortis
If someone talks about free players one more time I'm going to blow my fuse and get banned.
I'm talking about PREMIUM players! READ! |
NOT someone who just made account for a week or less.
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Your complaint is that players who invested just $5 in this game or had previously subscribed for less than a year can't use you SG's Global Chat Channel for out of character conversations, which implies your group is very much about role playing. This also means you don't want non-RP chats showing up in the normal SG channel either. I'm guessing you're not big on the ((ooc)) use.|
Originally Posted by Virfortis
If someone talks about free players one more time I'm going to blow my fuse and get banned.
I'm talking about PREMIUM players! READ! |
I don't think it an RMT prevention measure since $5 gives them Tells and e-mail which were the previous vectors used to annoy players with RMT spam, but simply another carrot in a long line of carrots to either encourage players to either subscribe or keep buying points.
So as the team at Paragon was looking at how to carve up the existing game features to make the Paragon Reward inverted pyramid of rewards and they decided that Global Chat went on the next tier above where they unlocked /tell, sg and coalition channels (which only costs $5).
Heck we didn't have global chat channels until Issue 3. And honestly this is the first time I've heard of one being used as a secondary SG channel. A creative use I must admit but most of the time they are used as channels for recruiting teammates for particular tasks like getting Giant Monster badges or running the current hot TF/SF/Trial.
So even though these $5 premium players have access to your SG's chat channel, it's actually your SG's policy that prevents members from chatting about things OOC except on your SG's global chat channel. Maybe your SG should reconsider it's policy than convincing Paragon/NCSoft to change which Tier Globals are unlocked.
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$15 actually, 3 times what you're assuming. $5 I can understand perfectly, way too low. $15 on the other hand is really expensive for an account to get banned within 5 minutes.|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Your complaint is that players who invested just $5 in this game.
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Secondly, we have a lot of people that talk a lot, we can't put OOC and IC in the same channel or we could never keep up. We also have a coalition, which is also IC.
Third, this isn't the SGs fault, this is the players fault for not putting custom channels on silence by default. God forbid that VIPs have to take a little responsibility with channels they created, so they hyper-inflated the RMT threat and gave Paragon a perfect money milking scheme.
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As someone who has some older characters with 100+ emails with that are all RMT, I'd say you don't know what you're talking about in regards to the part I bolded.|
Originally Posted by Virfortis
$15 actually, 3 times what you're assuming. $5 I can understand perfectly, way too low. $15 on the other hand is really expensive for an account to get banned within 5 minutes.
Secondly, we have a lot of people that talk a lot, we can't put OOC and IC in the same channel or we could never keep up. We also have a coalition, which is also IC. Third, this isn't the SGs fault, this is the players fault for not putting custom channels on silence by default. God forbid that VIPs have to take a little responsibility with channels they created, so they hyper-inflated the RMT threat and gave Paragon a perfect money milking scheme. |
And last I checked, I'm pretty sure you have to be unsilenced before you can talk in any channel. But I would check with that operator's chanel.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
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This RIGHT here proves that this isn't about RMT. I can pay $5 and get access to mail, so I can spam it all I want, but I have to pay $45 to get in a channel that RMT spam couldn't affect without being intentionally unsilenced. This utterly and completely proves that this isn't even about RMT. Unless the admin of a channel is an absolute invalid, RMT spam would never hit the custom channels. It's not that hard to know that player ashfg1002 is not a real player.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
As someone who has some older characters with 100+ emails with that are all RMT, I'd say you don't know what you're talking about in regards to the part I bolded.
And last I checked, I'm pretty sure you have to be unsilenced before you can talk in any channel. But I would check with that operator's channel. |
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I think they are errring on the side of caution.|
Originally Posted by Virfortis
This RIGHT here proves that this isn't about RMT. I can pay $5 and get access to mail, so I can spam it all I want, but I have to pay $45 to get in a channel that RMT spam couldn't affect without being intentionally unsilenced. This utterly and completely proves that this isn't even about RMT. Unless the admin of a channel is an absolute invalid, RMT spam would never hit the custom channels. It's not that hard to know that player ashfg1002 is not a real player.
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Are they being too overly cautious? Possibly.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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What caution though? What are we still defending against? We just proved RMT spam can't happen in a channel because they would have to be unsilenced. Seriously, we just proved RMT isn't a threat, what are we being cautious against then?
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
I think they are errring on the side of caution.
Are they being too overly cautious? Possibly. |
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Originally Posted by Virfortis
What caution though? What are we still defending against? We just proved RMT spam can't happen in a channel because they would have to be unsilenced. Seriously, we just proved RMT isn't a threat, what are we being cautious against then?
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As I said check with the operators. i don't think every channel has that feature.
Also keep in mind there is now RMT spam in the help channels.
EDIT: With that said I would not oppose to them lowering the barrier from $45 to $15. Or whatever other compromise they can think of.
Free players I couldn't care less about, if they want to tell, etc, the system in place should stay as is. But as you said you aren't talking about free players.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Do you have PMs/tickets in with the Devs over this?
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I just want to say "thank you" for realizing I'm not talking about free or even entry level premium players. I'm all for the chat costing about $15 (heck, I'd go $20, month sub +$5)
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
As I said check with the operators. i don't think every channel has that feature.
Also keep in mind there is now RMT spam in the help channels. EDIT: With that said I would not oppose to them lowering the barrier from $45 to $15. Or whatever other compromise they can think of. Free players I couldn't care less about, if they want to tell, etc, the system in place should stay as is. But as you said you aren't talking about free players. |
And as I said before, Global channels being Tier 3 isn't about RMT. It's about the devs taking the game's existing feature list, many that were added after the game's initial roll out in 2004 and try to set up a series of rewards to encourage either subscribing or continuing to subscribe to the game. Many are unlockable monthly or permanently for real cash, however Global channels weren't one of these.
My $5 comment refers to the minimum cost to become Premium and unlock the SG and Coalition chat channels (as well as /tell), I was just saying it's unlikely for the devs to move Globals down to Tier 2 which is only $5 for new players. I'm OK with making it a purchasable item on the market like the way ATs or powersets are, more money to them.
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Really? Because unlike the SG channel, global channels will reach members who are playing on another server, on the other faction, or on a character who is in a different SG. I know of several SGs that have their own global channel for that reason.
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Heck we didn't have global chat channels until Issue 3. And honestly this is the first time I've heard of one being used as a secondary SG channel. A creative use I must admit but most of the time they are used as channels for recruiting teammates for particular tasks like getting Giant Monster badges or running the current hot TF/SF/Trial.
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As I said, I would be much more than happy if it was purchasable in the item shop under account services, that would be the best thing because it would allow Paragon to set a decent price on it. I vote $10 equivalent, but won't hold my breath for anything near that low.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Really? Because unlike the SG channel, global channels will reach members who are playing on another server, on the other faction, or on a character who is in a different SG. I know of several SGs that have their own global channel for that reason.
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Confused...when you say all for chat costing $15 a month are you talking about channels or tells. Because at $15 month they could just be VIPs...
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Originally Posted by Virfortis
I just want to say "thank you" for realizing I'm not talking about free or even entry level premium players. I'm all for the chat costing about $15 (heck, I'd go $20, month sub +$5)
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I would be just fine if the requirement to unlock (permanently buy) global chat was to buy between $15 and $25 worth of Paragon Points. I simply believe that $45 is too high and alienates premium players that like to RP because it's fairly common (been asking my SG) for large RP groups to use global channels as an OOC. Since globals also stretch server-wide, it helps maintain a constant chat room for SG members that have multiple server characters. The price above $15 is enough to soothe the channel "moderators" that want to play and not worry about actually moderating their channel, but it's not so much that I would have to do without lunch for two weeks straight to pay for.
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Originally Posted by LISAR
Confused...when you say all for chat costing $15 a month are you talking about channels or tells. Because at $15 month they could just be VIPs...
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I think that Father Xmas hit the nail on the head. The devs made a decision to entice people to spend more money by putting some features behind high pay walls. It's a decision that annoys many players, but could be financially astute. I think it's too early to tell, but since I've seen posts from people saying they plan to spend $90 or whatever to get to tier 7 and unlock IO's apparently it's working for them in some cases.
Whether in the long run this is going to make more or less money is hard to say. It's possible that most people will adapt to these restrictions, annoying as they must feel. I think it's good though to highlight where some decisions interfere with how people play the game, in particular how they affect VIP's. The devs can't think of everything, so such feedback is important, and in the long run they might make changes based on it.
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Well I can indefinitely say that our SG is having a hard time because we really want to OOC chat with the Premiums and they can't because they don't have that much money to drop instantly. We're mostly VIPs that brought friends in, who became premium, and now they're only getting 1/4th of the SG experience because they can't pump out $15 a month. It also inconveniences the VIPs because now we're having to brainstorm over a whole new method.
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Originally Posted by General_CoH
I think that Father Xmas hit the nail on the head. The devs made a decision to entice people to spend more money by putting some features behind high pay walls. It's a decision that annoys many players, but could be financially astute. I think it's too early to tell, but since I've seen posts from people saying they plan to spend $90 or whatever to get to tier 7 and unlock IO's apparently it's working for them in some cases.
Whether in the long run this is going to make more or less money is hard to say. It's possible that most people will adapt to these restrictions, annoying as they must feel. I think it's good though to highlight where some decisions interfere with how people play the game, in particular how they affect VIP's. The devs can't think of everything, so such feedback is important, and in the long run they might make changes based on it. |
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This totally cracks me up.|
Originally Posted by Virfortis
Well I can indefinitely say that our SG is having a hard time because we really want to OOC chat with the Premiums and they can't because they don't have that much money to drop instantly. We're mostly VIPs that brought friends in, who became premium, and now they're only getting 1/4th of the SG experience because they can't pump out $15 a month. It also inconveniences the VIPs because now we're having to brainstorm over a whole new method.
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So, without the OOC chat they're only getting 1/4 of the 'SG experience'? Then it sounds to me an awful lot like you should be using SG chat for OOC and another channel for RP, then they can get 3/4 of the 'SG experience'.
If the assertion is true, then the problem is with the user, not the system.
There is nothing wrong with asking for a 'buy it now' price for SG chat.
I wonder if they have the tech to sell individual channels?
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There is a 'buy it now' price for SG chat: $5 will buy 400 Paragon Points and give new players 1 Reward Token. At that point they will be able to access super group chat and belong to a super group.|
Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
There is nothing wrong with asking for a 'buy it now' price for SG chat.
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Now if you are talking about a global channel chat, they have that as well: For $45 a new player can buy 3,600 points which will give them 4 Reward Tokens, which is enough to unlock global chat access when added to the 1 token that everyone (including F2P players) gets. Though if they are going this route, I would suggest they should get the $50 package and gain the extra 600 Paragon Points bonus.
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Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
I wonder if they have the tech to sell individual channels?
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Oh wow haha, love the laugh.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
For $45 a new player can buy 3,600 points
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Factor that not everyone wants 3600 points and then come back. I don't even know what I'd do with 3600 points, much less a premium player that just wants global chat.
Stop killing the argument here and actually come up with a reason besides RMT (cause channel moderators are too lazy to unsilence) or "getting lots of points too!" then come back.
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Hmm, lets see:|
Originally Posted by Virfortis
Factor that not everyone wants 3600 points and then come back. I don't even know what I'd do with 3600 points, much less a premium player that just wants global chat.
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1,200 points for the Controller AT.
1,200 points for the Master Mind AT.
1,200 points for 3 costume bundles.
1,600 points for the ability to hold +10 enhancers (can buy twice).
1,200 points for the alignment system.
1,200 points to start as a praetorian.
160 points for a 30-day Invention System license.
400 points for each signature story arc.
1,600 points for 5 character slots.
800 points each for up to 5 extra costume slots.
600 points for the First Ward contacts.
800 points each for various power sets.
And that is just the tip of the iceberg.
I don't accept that there isn't anything worthwhile to buy. This is not a free to play game. Paragon Studios' loyalty reward system rewards players that pay them. One of the rewards you really want is gated behind that loyalty program. That doesn't mean that they have to give away that perk for less than they are asking. Especially since what they are asking for isn't very much.
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Originally Posted by Virfortis
Stop killing the argument here and actually come up with a reason besides RMT (cause channel moderators are too lazy to unsilence) or "getting lots of points too!" then come back.
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As for my objections, they are just as valid as your reasons for wanting a change. The difference is that the way things are provides Paragon Studios with more money than with your reasons. The way things are also protects their subscribers (their main revenue stream) from most RMT spam.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
If anyone is curious why they need to lock new free players out of Global Channels completely just play Runes of Magic for 5 minutes. Glold Spammers galore and they get new accounts and log back in as fast as they can ban them (which makes life even worse because if you report them adding them to you Blacklist, they just come back 10 minutes later with a new name).
It is insanely annoying. If we started getting that people would start leaving cause we are spoiled.
Sadly even tells have this problem as we have seen before that people write scripts that send tells to everyone on server.
Only solution I can see is a LFG channel with a hard coded message you can send out that says "Level ## class LFG" or some such but I'm not sure how that is much different than the LFG tool (other than no one uses the tool). This is good subject to make suggestions on as I'm sure the Devs had long discussions about this before Freedom released.
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You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.