Concerns about the new EULA
By
all_hell,
Posted on: 2011-09-11 04:59 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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What, again?|
Originally Posted by Westley
...and this is why...
...blah blah blah, gross misunderstanding of "privacy infringement"... But as it stands, I'm done. I've been paying for the past seven years almost, and for the last two or three without even playing most of the time. No more. |
Over this?
Mmm, if that's the reason you want to tell yourself man, OK.
Be sure to drop someone a tell in broadcast now and then to let us all know what it's like as a Premium player now, will you?
Statesmonkey Sez: Lighten up! It's a game, for Lincoln's sake!
Also: Six years of casual play begins to look an awful lot like one year of hardcore play.
Unenforceable terms in a contract are unenforceable.
Anything can be put in a EULA. But not everything can be enforced.
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I mean no disrespect when I say this, but yeah, that's been my impression of PK for... What, the last couple of years? He returns for a short while, doesn't post all that much on the forums and then leaves over something like that. There was a time when he was an active member of the forum-posting population, but these days... I don't know, maybe I'm looking in the wrong places, but I've seen more of Shubbie than I have of PK.
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Originally Posted by Casual_Player
What, again?
Over this? |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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You'd be surprised. How often you do read website T&C or Privacy Policy pages? Despite the fact that they're almost 100% unenforceable due to being unilaterally dictated "contracts" without explicit agreement, they nonetheless "permit" these sites to do pretty much the same things as most EULAs do.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
But notably, these sites (well, other than this one, soon) do not have terms of use that state that they can do anything they want with data on my computer because I visited them.
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Omnes relinquite spes, o vos intrantes
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Because my father works for Symantec |
Originally Posted by DarkGob
Why do you trust AVG/Avast/or god forbid, Norton?
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That's still not a good reason...
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Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
Because my father works for Symantec
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Omnes relinquite spes, o vos intrantes
My Characters
CoX Chatlog Parser
Last.fm Feed
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Well MY uncle works for Nintendo! |
Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
Because my father works for Symantec
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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
Did you delete all of your characters and send a note to supporrt stating that you will never ask for them to restore them?
If you didn't do that you just dropped to Premium. You can't rage quit anymore. 
Heh. And I fully expect you to be back and since you'll be premium you won't be able to post your next rage quit without paying $15.00 first.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
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If they are stupid enough to use the same forum name over there and then bad mouth a game any game the deserve any such ban.
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Originally Posted by DarkGob
I think Westley & co. are worried that the devs will be spying on Unleashed (which they probably already do) and ban their accounts if they dare say anything bad about the game, which would be a legitimately awful thing to do but it's a pretty silly thing to assume.
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But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
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I agree with GG.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I think this is the first ragequit post for CoH: Freedom - and considering it's only 2 days from launch, that's pretty good going - I was expecting way more nerdrage from the whole hybrid payment model too
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Eeeeeeeeeeeew
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Disagree, anything goes wrong talk to him get money. Also I have a norton sub for the next 30 years.
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Originally Posted by The_Spad_EU
That's still not a good reason...
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@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Response to OP List:
* Get outta my yard! Aw crud... don't matter if they're in muh yard or not... they've bugged all muh begonias...
* Wait... Westley was back?
* Hold on a moment... you can use EULA as a cover for searching your subscriber's hard drives and transfering whatever information you want? That's it... I'm gonna make my OWN game now! Once I have access to gamers' hard drives world wide my pron collection is gonna be HUGE!
* Seriously.... he's back? I thought we sprayed to prevent that sort of thing...
* Well dang... there goes my hopes of being a CIA spook... ain't no way I'm going to own a computer that doesn't have CoH on it...
* Westley came back without me knowing it... creepy... makes me want to go out and re-do all the booster shots I had as a kid... just in case.
My mind wanders so often you've probably seen its picture on milk cartons. - Me... the first person version of the third person Steelclaw
Well I could see the new EULA as a blanket permission to snoop for AE farms of the publish, farm, unpublish type, but the new lowbie sewer trial is going to suck the air right out of AE farming/PLing at low levels anyway.
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Violating an NDA is a breach of contract. Same for showing disassembled game files; it's also against the DMCA. Stalking and harassing are illegal in and of themselves.| If you set up some other web site or forum to leak NDA information, or to show disassembled piggs, or to stalk or harass some player, then, yeah, you should be banned. |
We don't need language in the EULA that would allow someone at NC to kick you because they don't like your political opinions.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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It's not like there hasn't already been a big "Rant about how City of Heroes Sucks Now" thread over there for ages. And yet no one was banned here. Or a huge thread where they post a link to whiny/stupid forum posts and all laugh about it. Westley, I hope you posted a link to your own post there before you went all Nerd Rage and quit.
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Originally Posted by TerraDraconis
If they are stupid enough to use the same forum name over there and then bad mouth a game any game the deserve any such ban.
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Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
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It was a brand new EULA, dated September 1. Given that Freedom is a re-launch of the game, I'd say the person who did not read it or at least find a way to learn what is in it is the foolish one.
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Originally Posted by Nowhereman
I get two things from this.
1) Someone has waaaaay too much time on their hands if they frequently re-read the EULA for any insidiously evil changes. 2) This man will never get suckered by Steve Jobs and join the Cent-Ipod. |
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Oh man, now they are going to kick me if they disagree with my statement that I liked Thor on Twitter?!?!?!|
Originally Posted by Venture
Violating an NDA is a breach of contract. Same for showing disassembled game files; it's also against the DMCA. Stalking and harassing are illegal in and of themselves.
We don't need language in the EULA that would allow someone at NC to kick you because they don't like your political opinions. |
You and your opinions (or even My Opinions and I) are not interesting enough to warrant any company hiring anyone on full time with benefits just to monitor what you (or I) say and like.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
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That section and one or two others are written into the EULA that way. It was a copy and paste, not Westley raging. I filed a bug report about it as deliberate obfuscation of the content, given that most of the EULA is written in ordinary mixed-case and paragraphs. Probably some lawyer just copied some boilerplate and didn't bother formatting it, but it's annoying, regardless.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Okay let's look at this without the WALL OF SHOUT.
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They can already do this and would be doing it if they cared at all about AE anymore, which they don't. They don't need a clause in the EULA to give them permission to alter or remove player-created content in their own game.
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Medbot
Well I could see the new EULA as a blanket permission to snoop for AE farms of the publish, farm, unpublish type
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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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I'm pretty sure they only want to ban people who post in game files and unreleased beta specs. Maybe people who go out of their way to stop others from paying...if they blow enough smoke to find the fire.
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Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser
Oh man, now they are going to kick me if they disagree with my statement that I liked Thor on Twitter?!?!?!
You and your opinions (or even My Opinions and I) are not interesting enough to warrant any company hiring anyone on full time with benefits just to monitor what you (or I) say and like. |
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Exactly I don't think they are going to be actively out hunting stuff. That said .... PLayers will mail customer service folk and devs when they see people post about cheating and if an employee of NCSoft or Paragon Studios follows the link they are sent they have "monitored" the other board.|
Originally Posted by LISAR
I'm pretty sure they only want to ban people who post in game files and unreleased beta specs. Maybe people who go out of their way to stop others from paying...if they blow enough smoke to find the fire.
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Also just a wild guess here but do you imagine that the employee's of NCSoft and Paragon Studio's don't read various gaming boards out there on their own anyway? Again to be technical about it if an emplyee's eyes saw a post on a 3rd party board it was "monitored". So to cover their hindquarters they stick scary boiler plate like that into the EULA.
For example where I work has a similar bit of boilerplate about the company being able to monitor the employees computers/email/etc. And this is simply to CYA because if the company computer technician sits down at your computer to work on it and your web browser and email are open he/she has just monitored your web browsing habits and email.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
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LOL. Wow. Paranoid much? Hahahahaha!|
Originally Posted by Westley
...and this is why.
This is a gross violation of my privacy and civil rights, and I will not subject myself to this. I will be unsubscribing permanently as soon as I send this message. I'm posting this so that whoever in NCSoft may see it that may change this. If you take this out, I may continue to subscribe in the future. But as it stands, I'm done. I've been paying for the past seven years almost, and for the last two or three without even playing most of the time. No more. |
Oh, can I have all your stuff?
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Here's my problem with the wording of the EULA: None of what you write above is what it says. You're projecting a motivation onto NCSoft and then using that made-up motivation to justify the wording.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Okay let's look at this without the WALL OF SHOUT.
So you're ticked that they don't want you to:
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Please understand that I am not necessarily disagreeing with your summation or disputing the correctness of it. The EULA, taken strictly on its own and judged on strictly what it says, is not nearly that benign, though.
As gamers we let this kind of thing slide because most of us feel that our personal risk is so miniscule that it does not matter. We can safely ignore the fact that we are agreeing to let NCSoft do whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want, for any reason that they want or, conversely, for them to decide to do nothing at all or to even be inconsistent in their actions if they choose to and to do so without having to justify any of their actions or inaction. We tell ourselves that it doesn't apply to good citizens and that "we" are good citizens. Accessing the game service is more important than worrying about how the publisher of the game service might potentially misbehave.
I'm waiting for the first ragequit over the clause specifying that you're mentally competent to play the game, myself.
bai
Don't I know you???