Seriously . . . ewww . . .
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2011-09-10 21:52 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I see your problem Sir..you went through Atlas on Freedom. As others here have said, since AE came along, that is basically all AP has become. I have seen sewer team leaders get abused, for trying to recruit 'proper' teams.
Pretty much, the population of AP puts the DUMB slap bang into FreeDUMB. ON another note though, seeing PI awash with people actually teaming (think I saw only one guy lff when I was there earlier) is certainly an improvement. To bad the refuse just moved closer to the toon creation location.
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But the Farmer is giving up his REAL time to help out that Farmee, so if influence has no real value, that Farmee is getting the deal of a lifetime by giving up something of no value for real time.|
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
I suppose not... but if it is of so little value... why would the farmer want it?
OR Looking at it the same way... there is no reason TO give the farmer anything either, it works both ways. And with no good reason to pay for something that should be free, why wouldn't the 'farmee' just keep his pretend money? |
I just wish my supermarket would take influence for the goods and services they provide...
You're being rented out by another player, giving up REAL time is irrelevant when you're willing to do it w/out problem.
once again...
paying to be PLd is stupid
charging for PLs is just as stupid
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But that is my point. Giving up your real time to help a stranger is extremely charitable however you look at it, if you are not a charitable person, you aren't willing to do it w/out problem, why would those people ever give up their time for a stranger without reward?
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
You're being rented out by another player, giving up REAL time is irrelevant when you're willing to do it w/out problem.
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Because certain people have decided that a non-exploit style of gameplay (that isn't theirs) is badwrongfun and should be stamped out with excessive force.|
Originally Posted by Giant2005
But that is my point. Giving up your real time to help a stranger is extremely charitable however you look at it, if you are not a charitable person, you aren't willing to do it w/out problem, why would those people ever give up their time for a stranger without reward?
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However ... If the Devs wanted to get rid of it, its' simple enough to put a GM (or three) in the problem zones/servers, monitor chat and start handing out tempbans for everyone who asks for a farm and everyone who offers a farm while spamming a global announcement every 10 minutes that farming is no longer tolerated in COH. Encourage everyone to report farms and farmers and those farmed; act on those reports. It should take a week or so.
They'd lose a lot of customers doing it, but ... they can do it. It is within their power to do so. They haven't done this (to my knowledge; maybe I missed the announcements), so ... why haven't they? Anyone know? *curious*
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No it didn't used to be anywhere near as bad as that.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Passing through Atlas Park on Freedom just now:
[Broadcast] Player 1: any 50s up for ticket farm [Broadcast] Player 2: lvl 24 lf 54/8 priv farm. 19 mil [Broadcast] Player 3: lvl 1 lff* [Broadcast] Player 4: looking for free farm [Broadcast] Player 2 again: lvl 24 lf private farm [Broadcast] Player 1 again: any 50s up for ticket farm [Broadcast] Player 5: looking to join a team [Broadcast] Player 6: +4/8 lf 1 more, 10 MPR, only taking 4 lowbies [Broadcast] Player 4 again: looking for free farm [Broadcast] Player 4 again: looking for free farm Has it always been this bad? |
It used to be 2 MPR.
Freedom is my home server, and I enjoy playing there. Atlas Park is indeed packed full of farmers who clog up broadcast with their farm advertisements, however, walk outside of Atlas and there are a ton of people who enjoy playing content missions. For the people who say they can't form a team on Freedom that isn't a farm, I call malarkey, because I do it everyday and sometimes have to turn people away.
I think it was Bill who said earlier in the thread that Atlas broadcast is the "Smog of the Freedom server", which is a great analogy. When you live in a big city, you have to deal with the downside in order to take advantage of the many benefits. Fortunately Freedom's downside is pretty much limited to a single zone.
Freedom is a fine server full of fine people.
I dont get why people QQ about paying for farms. You can easily make the money back on tickets but IM ENTITLED TO FREE FARMS SO STOP CHARGING i guess.
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...what's there to sell at 15-19 bronze?
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Originally Posted by Giant2005
When rolling 15-19 bronze, each ticket is worth an average of 13.9 k.
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What shall claim a Sky Kings' Ransom?
PPD & Resistance Epic Archetypes
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I think you are underestimating the amount of people that would quit if such a thing were to happen. If an overzealous GM started throwing out bans to people who weren't breaking any rules and wasn't fired within a few hours, I expect a significant majority of the playerbase would quit.
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Originally Posted by Sun_Runner
Because certain people have decided that a non-exploit style of gameplay (that isn't theirs) is badwrongfun and should be stamped out with excessive force.
However ... If the Devs wanted to get rid of it, its' simple enough to put a GM (or three) in the problem zones/servers, monitor chat and start handing out tempbans for everyone who asks for a farm and everyone who offers a farm while spamming a global announcement every 10 minutes that farming is no longer tolerated in COH. Encourage everyone to report farms and farmers and those farmed; act on those reports. It should take a week or so. They'd lose a lot of customers doing it, but ... they can do it. It is within their power to do so. They haven't done this (to my knowledge; maybe I missed the announcements), so ... why haven't they? Anyone know? *curious* |
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Rectified Recticle, Regenerative Tissue, Basilisk's Gaze, Steadfast Protection and Reactive Armor.
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Originally Posted by SkarmoryThePG
...what's there to sell at 15-19 bronze?
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farmers are a loud minority from a broadcast perspective, no where near the majority.
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Originally Posted by Giant2005
I think you are underestimating the amount of people that would quit if such a thing were to happen. If an overzealous GM started throwing out bans to people who weren't breaking any rules and wasn't fired within a few hours, I expect a significant majority of the playerbase would quit.
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Originally Posted by Giant2005
Think about the math involved.
Running someone through a farm and completing all of the ambushes for the fastest xp/sec takes about 4 minutes. Running in solo without bosses, you cap tickets in 1. Farming someone else costs the Farmer 3 runs which is 4500 tickets. When rolling 15-19 bronze, each ticket is worth an average of 13.9 k. 13900 x 4500 = 62.55 million influence taking that passenger put the Farmer out of pocket. It takes a fairly charitable soul or one who doesn't understand the value of influence to be willing to take someone at such an expense. Conversely, it takes apretty selfish (or genuinely poor) soul to not be willing to compensate that farmer for at least some of his losses. |
o_0
------->"Sic Semper Tyrannis"<-------
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Farmers aren't a majority but with the precedence of "we can ban you any time we like for any reason we like" being set, there aren't a lot of people devoted enough to this game to take that kind of treatment, whether the banhammer directly impacts them or not.
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
farmers are a loud minority from a broadcast perspective, no where near the majority.
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Could be...|
Originally Posted by Sugar_Rush
That's because there's never anyone in Atlas!
 Union was full of farming spam (as was Defiant) a few years back (and pre AE it was all 'fill-for-me' PI farms), I'm guessing most dedicated EU farmers have jumped to Freedom. |
I always run tip missions in Atlas because the zone's relatively small, and, like Al, I haven't seen any farm spam while doing that on Union. I haven't seen much of it on Liberty, either. There's a bit more on Virtue, but nothing like the bulk Freedom gets.
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
i'm fine with farmers demanding whatever fee they want per run, be it nothing or 100 million inf. Nobody is forced to join a farm or pay a fee. The only reason farmers can charge tens of millions per run is that people agree to pay that much. Others are free to run farm teams and charge as little as they want.
The asinine squabbles that also tend to clog AP broadcast on some servers annoys me at least as much as farm spam. i mostly ignore broadcast in AP when it's full of annoying dreck anyway.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
I don't think anyone cares what you do on your own time. It's your $15. But the constant spams, the offensive broadcasts, obnoxious justifications for bilking folks for free content, the broadcasting and help channel arguing over who makes the most off of what build/farm/ticket rolls/etc - all of it is just depressing.
If want to farm, go farm. Make a farming channel. Do what you enjoy QUIETLY. Leave the rest of us in peace.
Is this really asking too much?
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I wouldn't expect a significant majority. I wouldn't even expect a significant minority. I would expect a noticeable amount (from NCsoft / Paragon Studios perspective at least).|
Originally Posted by Giant2005
I think you are underestimating the amount of people that would quit if such a thing were to happen. If an overzealous GM started throwing out bans to people who weren't breaking any rules and wasn't fired within a few hours, I expect a significant majority of the playerbase would quit.
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Do note that I'm an "ebil farmer ruining the game for everyone! mwahahahaha!" because I run ticket farms solo, slowly, on my tankers and other characters. I (rarely) take a friend or two with me on those ticket farms; the XP is terrible, I'm sure. Not that my 50s can tell.
I am hardly without bias.
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Originally Posted by _eeek_
I don't think anyone cares what you do on your own time. It's your $15.
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| But the constant spams, |
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| the offensive broadcasts, |
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| obnoxious justifications for bilking folks for free content, |
Throw together a solo mission on AE, pick my favorite enemy group for that character, publish it, run it until I'm bored, unpublish it.
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| the broadcasting and help channel arguing over who makes the most off of what build/farm/ticket rolls/etc |
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| - all of it is just depressing. |
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If want to farm, go farm. Make a farming channel. Do what you enjoy QUIETLY. Leave the rest of us in peace. Is this really asking too much? |
"If you want to run task forces, go run task forces. Make a task force channel. Do what you enjoy QUIETLY. Leave the rest of us in piece. Is this really too much too ask?"
"If you want to team, go team. Make a teaming channel. Do what you enjoy QUIETLY. Leave the rest of us in piece. Is this really too much too ask?"
"If you want to PvP, go PvP. Make a PvP channel. Do what you enjoy QUIETLY. Leave the rest of us in piece. Is this really too much too ask?"
... would you like me to continue?
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>not turning off Broadcast|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Passing through Atlas Park on Freedom just now:
[Broadcast] Player 1: any 50s up for ticket farm [Broadcast] Player 2: lvl 24 lf 54/8 priv farm. 19 mil [Broadcast] Player 3: lvl 1 lff* [Broadcast] Player 4: looking for free farm [Broadcast] Player 2 again: lvl 24 lf private farm [Broadcast] Player 1 again: any 50s up for ticket farm [Broadcast] Player 5: looking to join a team [Broadcast] Player 6: +4/8 lf 1 more, 10 MPR, only taking 4 lowbies [Broadcast] Player 4 again: looking for free farm [Broadcast] Player 4 again: looking for free farm |
I sure hope you guys don't do this.
"And in this moment, I will not run.
It is my place to stand.
We few shall carry hope
Within our bloodied hands."
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The Suggestions forum is full of things that "should be simple enough to do." Most of them actually involve expending non-trivial resources. Combine that with the Devs' demonstrated preference to work on New Shiny Things and ignore/abandon the Old and Busted, and I believe you have your answer.|
Originally Posted by Sun_Runner
However ... If the Devs wanted to get rid of it, its' simple enough to put a GM (or three) in the problem zones/servers, monitor chat and start handing out tempbans for everyone who asks for a farm and everyone who offers a farm while spamming a global announcement every 10 minutes that farming is no longer tolerated in COH. Encourage everyone to report farms and farmers and those farmed; act on those reports. It should take a week or so.
They'd lose a lot of customers doing it, but ... they can do it. It is within their power to do so. They haven't done this (to my knowledge; maybe I missed the announcements), so ... why haven't they? Anyone know? *curious* |
You, for instance, are essentially suggesting the creation of one or more full-time jobs. GMs on farm-spam patrol can't do anything else. Their salary (or salaries) would constitute an annual expense in the thousands of dollars. We can argue lost subscriptions back and forth (those who might leave because they got their hands slapped for spamming vs. those who leave because of the spam and what it implies about the game), but on the most basic and practical level, paying for more GMs is probably not an expense NCsoft is willing to incur.
I would actually like to see what you propose happen. I would like to see the Mission Architect feature cleaned up, its many issues (UI, HoF/DC, filtered/forbidden words, the entire rating system, etc etc etc) addressed and resolved and fixed, and AE firmly re-established according to the Devs' original and IMO clearly-stated intent, as a storytelling venue for user-generated content rather than a farming tool. But at this point, as a practical matter, I think that's about as likely as them going back over the Shadow Shard.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
Just typing the word "farm" should get people a three-day ban...
"I really don't like that word."
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
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Originally Posted by Sun_Runner
"If want to run incarnate trial, go run incarnate trials. Make an incarnate trial channel. Do what you enjoy QUIETLY. Leave the rest of us in piece. Give us back Pocket D / RWZ. Is this really too much too ask?"
"If you want to run task forces, go run task forces. Make a task force channel. Do what you enjoy QUIETLY. Leave the rest of us in piece. Is this really too much too ask?" "If you want to team, go team. Make a teaming channel. Do what you enjoy QUIETLY. Leave the rest of us in piece. Is this really too much too ask?" "If you want to PvP, go PvP. Make a PvP channel. Do what you enjoy QUIETLY. Leave the rest of us in piece. Is this really too much too ask?" ... would you like me to continue? |
With a couple of notable exceptions, This is pretty much how Champion works. I am always amazed when I hear that other servers don't use the global system as much as we do.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
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Actually, I was thinking the same thing. I'm... pretty sure there are global channels for ALL those activities. The only ones that actively clog up Broadcast (because you're never going to get ALL the people who want to engage in the activity to ALL join a global channel) are the farms in Atlas and the Trials in RWZ.
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Originally Posted by Myrmydon
With a couple of notable exceptions, This is pretty much how Champion works. I am always amazed when I hear that other servers don't use the global system as much as we do.
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Did you completely forget this is suppose to be a GAME!? A game where you like it to bust npc heads in... A game to enjoy. Not a money or ind gathering tool. |
Originally Posted by Sun_Runner
Not so. I'd call them stupid for voluntarily taking such losses unless other factors are more important to them.
Average XP Farmer (w/ Group): 8 - 13 minutes per map, assuming 10 minutes for these purposes. Ticket Cap per Map: 1500 Tickets, assuming they are doing the useful ones. Ticket to INF: 550 tickets for 1.5 million influence, assuming the worst possible method of spending tickets INF per Map from Tickets: 4 million With me so far? Cool. Average Ticket Farmer (Solo or Special Map): 3 - 8 minutes per map (no bosses), assuming 5 minutes for these purposes. Ticket Cap per Map: 1500 Tickets Ticket to INF: 550 tickets to 1.5 million influence INF per Map from Tickets: 4 million Following along are we? Good. 30 minutes of farming: XP Farmer makes 12 million influence. Ticket Farmer makes 24 million influence. An hour of farming: XP Farmer makes 24 million influence. Ticket Farmer makes 48 million influence. Etc. Assuming both are stupid about how they spend their tickets. Does this mean that XP Farmers who farm for free are generous? Not necessarily. They are either ignorant or some other factor is more important to them than making influence alone. Usually, some other factor is more important. That may, or may not, be generosity. Depends on the player. |
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Hang on . . . . . . people still PAY to be farmed on freedom?
Its not the farming thats bad, its the fact that people are paying others to farm them 
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!