New EULA?

Well let's go ahead and take a look at those sections:

Well look at that, they explicitly specified "cheats" right there, along with "bots" and "hacks". Nothing vague about that. Although I do find it interesting that they also specify mods, I wonder where that leaves the VidiotMaps pack and other such graphical mods. I doubt they would enforce any of this as those mods are pretty harmless, but that's still interesting. Was that in the previous EULA?

Obviously it doesn't matter if they have no malicious intent now, as clearly the company could turn evil at any time. I mean, think about it, a year ago they introduced a new side-switching mechanic, and suddenly we're supposed to trust that they'll always be good? I don't think so.

Yes, they were pretty much (worded differently, but mods weren't allowed). I found a copy of the EULA from 2006 and it expressly forbid "modification" to the client. VidiotMaps has been linked officially by NC/Cryptic years ago as a top fan site or something another... also, one of the loading screen tips says that 'wiki.cohtitan.com is something something excellent resource'. While paragonwiki isn't a mod, I doubt they'd link to any part of CoH Titan in-game if they were concerned about any of the software on the site.

We'd have at least two days of them as a vig before they go full blown evil, so we'd have a warning when they start taking a heavy hand towards justice.

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.

Originally Posted by ShadowNate ;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

If we're really lucky, their Villain Morality Mission will be bugged and uncompletable (lord knows that happens often enough).

Come on in, have a seat. What are you doing here?

E.g., if they detect a bot on your computer, they will burn down your town.

Bother and here I was so looking for them sending a Seed of Hamidon to take out the offenders town.

Enjoy the Enriche, citizen.

Ah. Quotes from the Unleashed forums. Does Westley know that you are copying parts of posts from his forum onto this one?

He may not appreciate you doing that.

OMG. Get a CLUE! The word 'cheats' is in parentheses and quotation marks. I'll give you three guesses who gets to define the word "cheats" in that document. And I'll give you a hint: not you.

You seem to think i give a ****. By the by he is not even a admin so what would he do?

Thanks for quoting that post by Zwillinger, TerraDraconis.

Bye!

Why should we care?

You're new here, aren't you?


The correct response is "Can I have your stuff?"

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.

Originally Posted by ShadowNate ;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

And the other side of this is I believe it's written that way to allow them to make improvements to their crash monitor without having to constantly update the EULA along with the crash monitor.
To be fair some people don't get the concept - remember when the PvP zones first came out and you had to use teleport to get in the guard towers - or out? It wasn't cheating/exploiting according to those who exploited that fact with TP Foe and Recall friend, locking people from playing their characters due to a geometry model.

First: Vidiotmaps is not part of the Titan Network. That's part of badge-hunter.

Second: Vidiotmaps is not "modding" the game. It is placing files in a subfolder that the game specifically looks for to overwrite sounds/images/whatever in the piggs. "Modding" the game is specifically changing the actual game files themselves. Vidiotmaps does not change a single file of the game itself.

The only part of vidiotmaps that could possibly be against the rules is someone finding out where to put those images and sounds and whatever else in order to replace them. (This is commonly called "pigg diving".) Dropping a file into a specific data folder hierarchy in order to replace something is not against the rules.

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

This. The game specifically has folders that allow users to replace certain game assets with custom versions. This includes things like fonts, icons, sounds, and other things. This functionality allows users to alter some elements of the game for themselves without modifying the game code itself. The only reason to set it up like that in the first place is so that users can tweak their experience without having to modify the client. (Which is forbidden.)

FBI meh. Got a friend who worked in the Philly office of the Secret Service in their (my name, not theirs) cybercrime division.

I once made the mistake of asking him if they really had access to everything people did on the web.

[Oh - hi, John! Hope you're enjoying the transfer down to DC.]

Any belief that you have any privacy once you start sending information via the internet is... quaint. At least NCSoft spells it out.

Reminds me of Pays to read the EULA

While you are not modifying the game FILES, you are modifying the GAME. By placing those files there, you are modifying the game client. When you launch the game, it is different than the default.

And I don't ever recall seeing where it was said that the uncompressed folder bit was there for US to use.

Now, I will grant you things like this IS why "or not" gets put into EULAs. And as far as I know, nothing really prevents them from closing the folder trick.

You never modify the game client by placing items in the data folder. You only change where the game reads its stored data from. Nothing is modified in the client. The EULA says you cannot modify the operation of the game.

Not only have the rednames "silently" acknowledged that this is OK, they have actually voiced their approval with data folder replacements: especially when it comes to replacing sounds (especially sounds that cause medical issues).

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

This is why HTTPS should be mandatory for all sites these days, though given the appalling state of the CA infrastructure it wouldn't necessarily help most people that much anyway...

I wasn't attempting to claim it was CoH Titan, though, does host several programs that it would be hard to claim don't cross the line of being a read only mod (it's modifying what information you can extract- to say nothing of the development of it).

Just because Paragon has included such functionality doesn't make it not a mod. The data folder is also undocumented, so it's not like this is something that was intended for use by the players. To me, making the argument that vidiotmaps isn't a mod is a bit like claiming the mods for games like the elder scrolls games aren't mods. You might not be modifying the client itself by tweaking the bits, but you are overwriting the files from the clients point of view, as it overlays the DATA/ tree over it's internal filesystem of piggs.


But really, that's all moot. It doesn't matter whether it's a mod or not, because the Devs quite obviously aren't bothered by it (like I said, they linked to vidiotmaps in the past, and currently link to cohtitan which has far more intrusive- if read only- programs). Vidiotmaps, all the cohtitan programs, the icon 'fixes', the sound 'fixes' are all regularly discussed on the official forums (i.e. the forums you're reading right now ), and I don't believe I've ever once seen any thread get modsmacked talking about using/recommending them (at least for reasons related to them). NC's lawyers are probably the only reason they're as quiet as they are about the topic generally (knowing my luck, a redname will post either right before, or right after I post this!).


There's a variety of ways to massively improve the reliability of the infrastructure (primarily by things like DNSSEC and other DNS enhancements). It's a shame that so many IT companies really just don't give a damn... hopefully out of laziness, and not out of coercion from the US government.

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.

Originally Posted by ShadowNate ;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!