Originally Posted by Golden Girl
![]() Shouldn't you have scratched that with picture writing on stones and then thrown them through our windows rather than using the internet?
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
![]() Shouldn't you have scratched that with picture writing on stones and then thrown them through our windows rather than using the internet?
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Ok everyone, a quiz that asks, How far can you jumpstart technology?
http://theuniverseas.com/how-useful-...echnology-quiz And a cheat sheet. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/8208/timetechlg.jpg |
Yes, damn antibiotics and indoor plumbing! Not to mention art and music! Worst things ever!
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Ok everyone, a quiz that asks, How far can you jumpstart technology?
http://theuniverseas.com/how-useful-...echnology-quiz And a cheat sheet. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/8208/timetechlg.jpg |
Ok everyone, a quiz that asks, How far can you jumpstart technology?
http://theuniverseas.com/how-useful-...echnology-quiz And a cheat sheet. http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/8208/timetechlg.jpg |
and tear down, and rebuild according to slightly different data...and tear down again, and rebuild
I'm curious how much of modern civilization do you think you could reintroduce if you were to suddenly find your self in a world where you had to use your own knowledge to re-build civilization, but you had all the laborers and such you needed.
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Do you think that you would be able to successfully remake cities that work and are well laid out, lighting, engines, electricity, get water, dispose of waste, farm food and transport it to where it needs to be, create an economic system, military, etc that would work and how close do you think you could get to a modern city using just your knowledge? |
Ok everyone, a quiz that asks, How far can you jumpstart technology?
http://theuniverseas.com/how-useful-...echnology-quiz |
What kinda crazy scenario puts ME in charge of rebuilding society? And why would ANYONE want to rebuild civilization exactly as it is now? What would be the point?
No. And I don't believe that ANY one person could do this either. Civilization forms organically over time due to the infuluence of MANY people. No one person could do that and have it feel like any kind of actual society. |
All I could really do is introduce the absolute importance of cleanliness - make sure the people around me boiled their drinking water, used outhouses instead of just dumping household waste out the window, etc. The rest of my skillset - accounting and technical support - wouldn't do a lot of good. My infantry training would be ok for not running around in despair and then dying because I didn't know how to hunt, clean game, forage, or make a shelter - that just puts me on more of an even footing with ancient (read: last century) man than above him.
But depending on how far back things had slipped/I time travelled introducing 'duh' things, like the cleanliness, basic first aid, and the importance of education, could increase the quality of life significantly.
You have a point. If you could rebuild society, you'd know such things as technology equals less work and thus more people jobless, and could (untill you died) try to keep it clear from such a trapping.
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Rather than structure our hypothetical New Society on low tech to ensure that certain jobs are never made obsolete, we'd be better off investing in vocational schools that teach people how to work in the newly created professions that technological advances create.
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Okay, so I've put a little thought into this one and come up with a problem.
The problem being: expected lifespan.
Even if I had more actual, usable technological knowledge than I do now I would still only have a short period of time to give it over to my laborers. At the age of 42, with no modern medical facilities or care, with less-than-modern housing and food production, I could feasibly see living to my mid 60's. So I have roughly 20 years to teach and direct my minions so they can continue along after my death.
Now, if I were immortal there would be no problem. I'd take it slow and guide my people along gently generation by generation.
But I'm not immortal... so I am left with a decision to make. I think that, ultimately, my decision would be not to teach them ANY technology whatsoever.
Here's my rationale: I have studied martial arts (tae kwon do, shotokan karate, aiki jui'jutsu, judo and Marine Corps self defense) for 20 years now. I am quite capable of killing a man with my bare hands, but it took me a LONG time to learn those skills. During that learning process my instructors also trained me on WHEN to use my training. The morality of martial arts was drilled into me right along with the combat training. I know how to kick someone but at the same time I know what it's like to be on the receiving end of a kick.
Now, let's say someone found a loaded gun laying on the street. They have no training. They have no discipline with regards to finding peaceful solutions other than shooting someone. With my martial arts training I can restrain someone as easily as I can take them out. With a gun there is no such middle ground; the best option is "Shoot to wound" rather than to kill. The person picking up the gun has instant power. No cost to get it. No learning curve to earn it.
My minions would be in the exact same boat. If I just taught them how to make black powder and use it... If I instructed them on assembly lines and mass production princibles.. Then I am giving them power without any guidelines. When I am gone they would take my black powder and create bullets and bombs with it. When I am no longer there they build factories without thought to environmental impact because they had not learned those lessons.
So, what do I do?
Instead of giving them technology I give them basic survival skills like hunting, farming, irrigation, home building and community. I will give them culture to hold their communities together so they celebrate their neighbor rather than envy them. I will teach them a deep respect for the environment and the world around them. I will do my best to make them think "community and planet first... personal wealth and advantage second..."
That way, when they eventually discover these technological advantages themselves, they might be better prepared to share that knowledge rather than horde it and become devisive from the withholding. Perhaps they will think of the environmental impact of progress and adjust accordingly before they rush into "advancement" without proper forethought.
So, I guess I automatically fail the "restarting a civilization" test. Since, at least on a technological basis, I wouldn't give them a blessed thing.
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If advances in technology meant increasing unemployment, then we'd be at 99% unemployment right now because technology has been steadily advancing for the past 300 years. The current high unemployment levels that we see have nothing to do with a major tech advance, it was caused by economic manipulations.
Tech advances do indeed mean some jobs become obsolete, but they just as much open up new areas of employment. Rather than structure our hypothetical New Society on low tech to ensure that certain jobs are never made obsolete, we'd be better off investing in vocational schools that teach people how to work in the newly created professions that technological advances create. |
You meaning liberating people from the burden of choice isn't what they want? How could this be that people really do want the pressures of having to pick all 31 flavors themselves? How could megatron and Tyrant possibly be wrong on this? I'm absolutely shocked. I guess I'll have rethink my agenda to make the world into a giant despot.
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Start the world over you say?
Hoo hoo... your looking at the number one despot on the planet! I'd make Alexander the Great, Ghengis Khan, Ceaser and all the rest footnotes in history. |
Given that the entirety of my experience in managing a civilization comes from playing Civ IV and Civ V well into the wee hours of the morning, I'd say pretty confidently that I could dominate the planet within 3 weeks, given that Ghandi doesn't try to nuke me and the Iriquois don't invent tanks too fast.
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Of course it's what they want. That's why they've been flocking to religions for thousands of years. Giving up the "burden" of choice liberates them from responsibility. "It's God's Will." Those that can't bring themselves to stomach religion turn and do the same thing with Government. "Ya can't fight City Hall."
People want to be sheep. |
10 out of 10. Seems to be a tricky one. The distinguishing characteristic of a steam engine relative to a gasoline engine or a diesel engine would be the lack of a spark plug or igniter for the fuel charge. With just a piston and a valve and no source of ignition that has to be a steam engine.
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Yeah, once I knew the correct answer, the diagram became much more obvious. Not that I would be able to actually build a steam engine, or at least not one more complex than an aeolipile.
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Most of us are so used to modern urban life that any attempt to introduce new ideas into a primitive people would be so abstract that they probably would not remain. What do we know about survival? Pre-historical people would care about discovering efficient tools and materials for general use, and more importantly, the introduction of farming techniques. Can you do that? Farming is what made people first settle down. No one will care about your civilizing plight if you can't keep their stomachs full with little effort and risk. The discovery of bronze changed the world for good and iron changed it once more. Do you know how to use and obtain such metals? It really seems almost irrelevant when we are surrounded by everything that we need to live comfortably.
Anyways, Gandhi is not the problem, Montezuma is.