Quote:
Not really interested from a discussion point of view, since I aired my views and was ignored but...|
Originally Posted by Mr_Body
Now you get to the log-in screen and the EULA.You have to accept the EULA before they allow you to play. And after legalize and mumbo-jumbo big words, it basically says: This is our game/ intellectual property. You rent the privilege to access our servers. We determine what you have access to. Anything you do in game also becomes part of our property. You do not own anything in regards to our property. We can allow you access to the servers at our convenience/ pleasure. We can remove your privilege to access our servers as we please. We can change anything we like at any time. Your only official recourse is to stop paying your subscription. |
EULA's have never been upheld in a court of law, in fact they have been defeated several times. An EULA is not a contract.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Quote:
You could also go with a Cable Modem example. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
You didn't buy the content. You paid an enrollment fee to join the CoH and CoV communities, and your monthly sub is the maintenance fee to keep your account active.
This is no different than a gym membership. Just because you pay to join and again each month to stay an active member doesn't mean you own the gym equipment. |
Yes I paid for the cable modem. But if I don't pay the monthly fee I sure as heck won't be getting any internet access. So yes, I own the cable modem(like the CoH game client). But without paying the monthly, it just takes up space and doesn't do much beyond that.
Thinking I SHOULD get my cable for free because I bought the cable modem from the cable company? Now see, that's just crazy talk.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
|
Quote:
~Hmmmm~|
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
You could also go with a Cable Modem example.
Yes I paid for the cable modem. But if I don't pay the monthly fee I sure as heck won't be getting any internet access. So yes, I own the cable modem(like the CoH game client). But without paying the monthly, it just takes up space and doesn't do much beyond that. Thinking I SHOULD get my cable for free because I bought the cable modem from the cable company? Now see, that's just crazy talk. |
How about your cable modem company, charging you $15 a month for internet access for seven years, then suddenly changing it so that to stream a movie/song/etc you have to pay your normal $15 + an additional fee.
Alternativly, you could just wait 2-3 months while paying your cable fee's to stream that one item?
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Quote:
And if you read the EULA it clearly states under member conduct that You agree not to use the Service to:|
Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
But, that is something the child has to read and recognize to ask his parents about. There is nothing preventing them from logging in without parent consent, not even debit cards these days considering that they are so ubiquitous.
|
impersonate any person or entity, including, but not limited to, a NC Interactive employee, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity;
So that 13 year old that misrepresents himself as a parent or guardian runs the risk of getting his account banned if NCSoft discovers what he has done.
Quote:
EULA's are not a contract.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
And if you read the EULA it clearly states under member conduct that You agree not to use the Service to:
impersonate any person or entity, including, but not limited to, a NC Interactive employee, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity; So that 13 year old that misrepresents himself as a parent or guardian runs the risk of getting his account banned if NCSoft discovers what he has done. |
They have been challanged, and defeated in a court of law.
The Dev's could write in the EULA, that they have the option to teabag, every subscriber's mother, if they whished. It would still not be legal.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Quote:
Actually since it would be a small claims case I kind of wish he'd take it to the People's Court so we could all watch him lose his case. |
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck...7s_Restaurants
Please read the bit about "frivolous lawsuits"... |
Quote:
That's pretty standard, actually. Most cable companies now have in addition to regular broadcast channels (where you watch the content, but the exact content available is decided by the company), they have pay channels where you can 'request' a stream of a movie/show/sporting event for an additional fee.|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
~Hmmmm~
How about your cable modem company, charging you $15 a month for internet access for seven years, then suddenly changing it so that to stream a movie/song/etc you have to pay your normal $15 + an additional fee. Alternativly, you could just wait 2-3 months while paying your cable fee's to stream that one item? |
Not saying your position is wrong, just that it's not the best analogy.
Oh, sorry. Thought you were talking about cable TV. My mistake.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Crim_the_Cold
A frivolous thread about frivolous lawsuits... time to add some more frivolity.
I claim this thread in the name of The Church of the Drunken Squirrel! All donations are to be made in the form of Guinness. |
God Bless Bishop Crim_the_Cold!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
~Hmmmm~
How about your cable modem company, charging you $15 a month for internet access for seven years, then suddenly changing it so that to stream a movie/song/etc you have to pay your normal $15 + an additional fee. Alternativly, you could just wait 2-3 months while paying your cable fee's to stream that one item? |
The extra fee you're mentioning? I believe that's called Pay Per View or On Demand services.
Wait a few months and it will be broadcasted on the other cable channels.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
|
Quote:
I can confirm both the AE edition and the COV collectors edition boxes also state this.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
The actual box says "additional oneline fees required." It says that on every boxed copy I can currently find handy, which includes the original box, the good vs evil box, and the Going Rogue box. They all say "First month of play included; Internet connection required; Additional online fees required."
|
They happen to in my study here.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
The extra fee you're mentioning? I believe that's called Pay Per View or On Demand services.
Wait a few months and it will be broadcasted on the other cable channels. |
I was talking internet, since we were talking about cable modems.
Unless America is some sort of strange place where all the TV comes through the internet.
To take it to TV's.
Your TV/Satalite/Cable provider gives you XY and Z channels as part of your subscriptionj. Then they change it so that channels Y and Z are now an extra charge, but still charge you the same for just channel X as your were paying for XYZ.
Wouldn't you think, 'wait a pancake-ing moment?'
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Bottom line, you are looking at the question backwards. Instead of asking what you will lose if you stop subscribing, you need to look at what you will GET if you let your subscription lapse.
Right now, if you let your subscription lapse, you get....umm... gimme a moment here... I know I have the answer here somewhere.... let me see.... oh yeah! You get nothing. Nada! Zilch! Except an email saying how they hope you will return at some point, and occasional reminder email saying they would love to have you back as a subscriber and telling you about some of the new features.
Even if they limited you to a single character slot, forced you to play on an assigned server (rotated to ensure an even distribution of players across all servers), and didn't let you play more than 3 hours a week, that would STILL be more than what you get right now.
The truth of the matter is, they are giving you much better than what I describe. Exactly how much is determined, in part, by how long you subscribed, and in part by what boosters and expansions you purchased.
Your argument is like having someone give you a brand new car, and you complain cause it's not a Lexus like the people who PAY for a Lexus get to drive.
It sounds to me like you heard CoH was going to have a Free-Play option and you decided right then and there that you would stop paying, and now you are disappointed that if you do, you won't get some of the things you want.
- Garielle
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme
I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Garielle
It sounds to me like you heard CoH was going to have a Free-Play option and you decided right then and there that you would stop paying, and now you are disappointed that if you do, you won't get some of the things you want.
|
Um....
No.
No.... and double NO.
My complaint is that my subscription now gets me less. The only times I've ever unsubscribed was when I really didn't want to or could not, play.
What I would retain, doesn't matter a fig to me, If I unsubscribe, I don't play.
But now my sub doesn't cover powersets any more, which is BS, since my sub hasn't reduced in price.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Since this thread is probably on its way out, I'd just like to remind the OP that I have not gotten your stuff yet. Just toss a PM my way and we'll hash out the details.
Very truly yours,
DarkGob
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
Quote:
Yep happens all the time. That's why they sell packages of channels. The channels available in the packages change from time to time, they even drop channels or pick up new channels.
|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
I was talking internet, since we were talking about cable modems.
Unless America is some sort of strange place where all the TV comes through the internet. To take it to TV's. Your TV/Satalite/Cable provider gives you XY and Z channels as part of your subscriptionj. Then they change it so that channels Y and Z are now an extra charge, but still charge you the same for just channel X as your were paying for XYZ. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
Since this thread is probably on its way out, I'd just like to remind the OP that I have not gotten your stuff yet. Just toss a PM my way and we'll hash out the details.
Very truly yours, DarkGob |
If this thread does get moderated... well lets just say that my global feed back about CoH will drop to the negative for the first time ever.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Quote:
Or, to summarize it even more briefly, Lord Vader is altering the deal. Pray he doesn't alter it any further.
|
Originally Posted by Mr_Body
In short follow-up, the game has evolved. The industry has evolved. The Devs are taking the game in a new direction. The Devs are changing what they determine to be your privileges/ rewards in their property. Your subscription has only paid for the privilege to access the servers.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Yep happens all the time. That's why they sell packages of channels. The channels available in the packages change from time to time, they even drop channels or pick up new channels.
|
Now you see...
This is where law might vary from country to country.
But if I enter into a contract with you, and part of that contract is you give me goods for X amount of money, or a certain amount of services for X amount of money, and you suddenly demand more money or cut the services/goods i recive then well... to put it polietly you are **** in court.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Quote:
Yup. My satellite provider ditched G4 a while back. I didn't notice my bill getting anything knocked off for that. I haven't sued them, though, because frankly I ought to have sent them a fruit basket for doing me the favor. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Yep happens all the time. That's why they sell packages of channels. The channels available in the packages change from time to time, they even drop channels or pick up new channels.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Yep happens all the time. That's why they sell packages of channels. The channels available in the packages change from time to time, they even drop channels or pick up new channels.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
Yup. My satellite provider ditched G4 a while back. I didn't notice my bill getting anything knocked off for that. I haven't sued them, though, because frankly I ought to have sent them a fruit basket for doing me the favor.
|
Just a heads up... if you are ever in the need of a bunch of cash and or extra TV channels...
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Quote:
No they are quite clear in their documentation that the actual channels you get is subject to change.|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Now you see...
This is where law might vary from country to country. But if I enter into a contract with you, and part of that contract is you give me goods for X amount of money, or a certain amount of services for X amount of money, and you suddenly demand more money or cut the services/goods i recive then well... to put it polietly you are ****ed in court. |
Not all channels and features are available in all areas. Pricing, programming, channel location and packaging subject to change. ***** [Basic/Signature Digital] Cable TV service needed to access other levels of service. Leased equipment must be returned to ***** if service is cancelled. The names and logos of featured programs are the property of their respective owners.
It's all in the contract before you sign and agree to it.
You are paying for access to the package, not specific channels.
Quote:
I am still waiting for a dress and bonnet, clown shoes and a unicycle to hit the Paragon Market.
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
Or, to summarize it even more briefly, Lord Vader is altering the deal. Pray he doesn't alter it any further.
|
Your subscription does not get you less unless you stop paying monthly. You retain everything you have if you stay subbed VIP. If you decide to go premium you will have to buyin to those features and may lose Incarnate privileges.
Quote:
This is one of those interesting legal myths, like the one that says income taxes are illegal and have been defeated in a court of law.
|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
EULA's are not a contract.
They have been challanged, and defeated in a court of law. The Dev's could write in the EULA, that they have the option to teabag, every subscriber's mother, if they whished. It would still not be legal. |
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
A big part of the ward she got is that Mc Donalds said the coffee would be hot.
What they didn't say was life threateningly scoldingly above what it should ever be hot.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.