Crashless Nukes *Might* Happen


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Because manipulation sets now have a historical precedent for the template under which they are constructed. They can't overhaul that template by just introducing new sets that break that mold while leaving all the other sets the way they are.
Hasn't energy manipulation been around since...launch? It has some blaps. It also has boost range, power boost, conserve power and something besides a stupid immob power in tier 1.

See also, Devices.

I do not see the precedent you speak of as there are two exceptions around since forever. Dark manip. spawned numerous speculation and wishlist threads, I posted in a few along with some others requesting something besides a blapper secondary. This request was ignored. There are so many "cool tricks" powers spread out amongst the dark powersets it would be at least as easy to whip one up out of support powers as it was to make yet another flavored blapper set. At the least they could have added boost range to the set designed for the ranged damage AT.


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Posted

More on topic of the thread title

I suggested this elsewhere but I would like to see the Rage treatment experimented with for nukes. Only affecting self, or a few seconds of -1000% damage etc. Avoids toggle drops, avoids the hated recovery debuff and endo drain. Easy to balance for the devs so far as keeping the damage output over time under control. Worried about to much damage output? Make the duration 6 seconds instead of 4.

The bad- that annoying feeling of " I cant contribute damage for the team" is still there, with no counter this time. On the other hand, you can drop inferno, keep all your defenses running and use super speed to get out of dodge before the boss that survived clobbers you. Get back into position, heal yourself, use inspirations, re-target and by then the new "crash" is gone or almost gone. Duration would need extensive testing to get right.


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Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
I'd love to play poker with you, I can't imagine anyone being easier to read. I have also never seen anyone else so embrace the when wrong attack philosophy the way you do.

Hey your calculations suck, throw anything you can at the person who points it out, throw out irrelevancies, and go hyperbolic, hell maybe with enough of that maybe nobody will notice.
Are you just trolling or do you actually believe this nonsense you spout? I've been playing COH off and on since beta and during all these years reading Arcanaville's posts I don't think I've ever seen anything she's ever stated as fact EVER be proven wrong. It's rare Arcanaville gets snippy... and even her version of snippy is kinda tame. If there's one thing I KNOW I can count on with any of Arcanaville's posts, it's that if there is math involved, and/or intimate knowledge of the game mechanics, there is no better source to take as gospel.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
Are you just trolling or do you actually believe this nonsense you spout? I've been playing COH off and on since beta and during all these years reading Arcanaville's posts I don't think I've ever seen anything she's ever stated as fact EVER be proven wrong. It's rare Arcanaville gets snippy... and even her version of snippy is kinda tame. If there's one thing I KNOW I can count on with any of Arcanaville's posts, it's that if there is math involved, and/or intimate knowledge of the game mechanics, there is no better source to take as gospel.
She isn't infallible and has herself put up posts where she admits she was wrong. One simple thing I see a lot is general presentation of post and attitude seems to bring out posts like that in folks. This isn't meant to be a personal attack, BTW. A valuable poster, so valuable that "they can't afford to employ her!"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldagore View Post
More on topic of the thread title

I suggested this elsewhere but I would like to see the Rage treatment experimented with for nukes. Only affecting self, or a few seconds of -1000% damage etc. Avoids toggle drops, avoids the hated recovery debuff and endo drain. Easy to balance for the devs so far as keeping the damage output over time under control. Worried about to much damage output? Make the duration 6 seconds instead of 4.

The bad- that annoying feeling of " I cant contribute damage for the team" is still there, with no counter this time. On the other hand, you can drop inferno, keep all your defenses running and use super speed to get out of dodge before the boss that survived clobbers you. Get back into position, heal yourself, use inspirations, re-target and by then the new "crash" is gone or almost gone. Duration would need extensive testing to get right.
Woof, I'd rather it stay as is than get that stupid rage treatment even at 4 seconds. I don't know why they can't just be -100 percent end and get rid of the no end recovery part. I get to "cheat" like that all the time on my ice/em by using Conserve Power and a blue insp.


 

Posted

I don't see Crashless Nukes or crashing Nukes that have damage commensurate with their endurance/recharge/penalty as the crux of the issue for Blasters. This discrepancy should be addressed, but it does not solve many of the problems that Blasters face.

The core issue that Blasters face is a similar problem with that of the Stalker AT-- they are both burst damage archetypes trapped in a game that has absolutely no need for anything other than sustained DPS. I view Blasters as an AoE burst damage specialist with the ability to also provide solid and rapid burst damage to single targets at range-- the most obvious advantage of ranged attacks being that target selection rarely requires movement of the character allowing for more effective spiking of damage on high priority targets (problem is, there really isn't much need for that in this game). Meanwhile, Stalkers are an entire AT built around single target burst damage delivered through Assassin Strike and augmented by Placate and Hide.

The Blaster role as an AoE/Single Target burst damage archetype is also evident in that both Aim and Buildup are nearly ubiquitous in Blaster primaries and secondaries. And while there are a few exceptions that lack these skills, these outlying sets tend to have abilities that emulate the effects of Build Up with relation to Burst AoE damage. Devices has Trip Mine and Time Bomb, which are direct correlations to AoE burst damage, and Darkness has Soul Drain.

But sustained DPS is what truly matters in this game, and while Blasters have the attacks to offer up solid sustained DPS, they don't have the durability to do such. This is why Melee ATs are much better off than Blasters. They offer 90% of the burst damage that a Blaster brings with the durability to consistently bring superior sustained DPS.

Players have already used IOs to establish that Blasters become more viable if that stack large amounts of ranged defense to augment their durability, thus closing one of the most glaring gaps between this AT and Scrappers/Brutes/Dominators. So if Blasters can't receive much more damage than they already have, should they become more survivable? What if every ranged single-target immobilize also granted 8% defense to range for 10 seconds? What if every ranged attack granted defense to range for 10 seconds, and this value scaled proportional to the recharge of the given skill? And what if every Melee attack granted Melee/AoE defense for a similar duration, again scaling with the recharge of the skill? I'm not sure if this would solve all of the ATs problems, but it would certainly lessen the glaring overall performance gap a bit, and given that the Blaster would become MORE survivable by attacking, it would further encourage their role as a DPS class.


 

Posted

I'm just poking in here at the end, but here's something I've often considered: What about making Aim (in most Blaster primaries) have a much longer duration? Like 40 seconds?

One blaster benefit that remains is the value of +ToHit they can achieve - While everyone else is whiffing at that MoG'd Paragon Protector, the blaster is hitting it, albeit for 13 points of damage each time.

So. What if Aim received a boost? Maybe PvE gets a treatment like PvP did (if I'm remembering correctly), and more damage was made irresistable?

I offer these suggestions to raise damage because that's the point of the AT, and I wouldn't hold my breath on Blasters being given greater defense or damage resistance numbers; but if they were, I like the idea of tying a temporary defense boost to Build Up/Aim, with the theory that the Blaster will at least stay alive through their attack chain.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldagore View Post
Hasn't energy manipulation been around since...launch? It has some blaps. It also has boost range, power boost, conserve power and something besides a stupid immob power in tier 1.

See also, Devices.

I do not see the precedent you speak of as there are two exceptions around since forever. Dark manip. spawned numerous speculation and wishlist threads, I posted in a few along with some others requesting something besides a blapper secondary. This request was ignored. There are so many "cool tricks" powers spread out amongst the dark powersets it would be at least as easy to whip one up out of support powers as it was to make yet another flavored blapper set. At the least they could have added boost range to the set designed for the ranged damage AT.
The question you seemed to be asking is why did darkness manipulation have so many non-ranged powers. And its been established that the manipulation sets are not intended to have anything but a tiny fraction of its abilities usable from range at most. Energy Manipulation has zero ranged attacks, although it does have boost range as you mention. Devices has always been the odd one out for a lot of reasons, but its unlikely to become the template for future manipulation sets. Especially because its also problematic in several ways.

If you asked why did darkness manipulation have so many attacks relative to support powers, the answer is I don't know, but it is not out of the range of other manipulation sets.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by ChrisMoses View Post
I'm just poking in here at the end, but here's something I've often considered: What about making Aim (in most Blaster primaries) have a much longer duration? Like 40 seconds?
It would then quickly become perma or nearly so, and its average damage over time benefit would actually then exceed Build Up. There's no question it would help blasters, but I don't know if it would help them in the right targeted way. I don't think it helps the nukes much, the subject of the thread, and I don't think it directly addresses the issue of blasters dropping dead more often than other archetypes because I don't think a common cause of that is being unable to hit a target. It does increase their damage, but not all blaster primaries have Aim. Assault Rifle and Dual Pistols don't have Aim, so if you put a very large buff into Aim you'd have to figure out what to do with those two sets to compensate, because I don't think those two sets so outperform the others that you could justify buffing every other set but those two.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisMoses View Post
I'm just poking in here at the end, but here's something I've often considered: What about making Aim (in most Blaster primaries) have a much longer duration? Like 40 seconds?

One blaster benefit that remains is the value of +ToHit they can achieve - While everyone else is whiffing at that MoG'd Paragon Protector, the blaster is hitting it, albeit for 13 points of damage each time.

So. What if Aim received a boost? Maybe PvE gets a treatment like PvP did (if I'm remembering correctly), and more damage was made irresistable?

I offer these suggestions to raise damage because that's the point of the AT, and I wouldn't hold my breath on Blasters being given greater defense or damage resistance numbers; but if they were, I like the idea of tying a temporary defense boost to Build Up/Aim, with the theory that the Blaster will at least stay alive through their attack chain.
Unfortunately you really shouldn't fix or improve blasters using build up or aim since you can build blasters that don't have access to either one of those two powers. It would be one matter if the sets that had aim were the ones under performing, but since that group of sets includes things like fire blast I'm guessing that's not the case. And heck, one of the more often complained about blaster secondaries would be completely left out in the cold by any buff to build up (oh devices ....).


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Posted

I don't know recharge and potential recharge for Aim, but even if, would it be so bad if it was permanent? Or switch it and make Build Up actually "build... up," like Blaster defiance, where you activate it and the damage buff raises over time (would have to start at the same value or slightly less and exceed the current value to actually be a buff).

As far as Pistols and Rifle go, you'd have to do something a bit ham-fisted like the Targeting Drone thing (unless I'm misremembering, doesn't it have it's own pseudo damage buff integrated?), and I guess something with Swap Ammo.

If the point of Blasters was to do more damage, let's do more damage! If we value living long enough to do that damage over simply more damage, maybe integrating a mini-MoG into Aim or BU would be more appropriate.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisMoses View Post
As far as Pistols and Rifle go, you'd have to do something a bit ham-fisted like the Targeting Drone thing (unless I'm misremembering, doesn't it have it's own pseudo damage buff integrated?), and I guess something with Swap Ammo.
No, it doesn't. Well not entirely. Unless the attack you're using is assault rifle's snipe power the targeting drone is just a to-hit and perception buff. If you are using AR's snipe it will add a small amount of extra damage to that power and that power only.


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Posted

I must've combined the Fire Gausian +Build Up thing into my entire notion of Targeting Drone. /Devices should be given that!


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Posted

I'd love if Nova was crashless, and on a 30-45 second recharge time like my beam rifle blaster's nuke is probably going to be, once he's 50 and IO'd. That would be fun. Being put out of combat because I used my tier 9 isn't fun, and to be honest, I'm having a hard time thinking of any situation where I wouldn't bring my beam rifle character to missions/TF's instead of my energy blaster, who I probably spent over a billion on IOing. Overcharge is just more fun than Nova.

So yeah, I'm all for crashless nukes.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
I have never seen them to be tentative about giving anyone else too much damage. In beta, things always seem to do too much damage and then are dialed down.
*coughs* Kheldians/Peacebringers *coughs*

Seriously... Arbiter Hawk's reasoning in the past beta as to why Solar Flare could not do KD instead of KB was because it might make Peacebringers do too much damage. I don't think any of us in that thread knew or knows how to respond to that. Arbiter Hawk seems like a nice guy and did some good things, but that... still throws me.

Sorry, I know this discussion has moved on a bit, but I had to talk about that. I am rather confused as to the dev's approach to some ATs compared to others. Scrappers and Brutes, for instance, have been quite strong for a long time and they have a lot of reluctance to bring their performance down at all (I'm not necessarily saying they need to be, but the history does tend to show them getting more favor than other ATs).


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
That's not supposed to factor into core archetypal balancing. If that were the case no one could justify the need for any buff on anything after I9 released.
As I understand it the 'no balancing around inventions' refers to content only requiring SO, not an inventions don't do anything approach to powerset balance.

Considering the addition of no-recharge tier 9s and I'd be surprised if they did not consider it.


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Posted

To reiterate something which I feel like I must have said in that giant, awful thread that we're not to speak of again, Grey, I think the devs don't care as much about AV soloing and other feats of general sturdiness as players think they do. In fact, as we've seen just lately but also years ago, their main thing seems to be how fast players are earning prizes, regardless of how they do it. Brutes and scrappers may be quite good at crashing through most types of content but the fact that they do it with sheer dps and determination, or to put it another way a very even performance curve, means they're not much of a threat to the kind of game balance that is actually at issue.

By contrast, take squishies. They get debuffs. That's scary. Do people use scrappers and brutes to do the really game-breaking TF and trial runs? They certainly do not. Sure, one or two might tag along but they're not doing any heavy lifting.

Where I am apparently going out on a limb is in saying that I think blasters more resemble the latter group than the former. Under the right circumstances blasters can do things that make the ability to ae farm look maybe not quite so impressive. Judging by the state of the game, it seems that I am more closely agreeing with the devs than those who feel that blasters need huge buffs.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
The question you seemed to be asking is why did darkness manipulation have so many non-ranged powers. And its been established that the manipulation sets are not intended to have anything but a tiny fraction of its abilities usable from range at most. Energy Manipulation has zero ranged attacks, although it does have boost range as you mention. Devices has always been the odd one out for a lot of reasons, but its unlikely to become the template for future manipulation sets. Especially because its also problematic in several ways.

If you asked why did darkness manipulation have so many attacks relative to support powers, the answer is I don't know, but it is not out of the range of other manipulation sets.
No I was just responding to your response of another posters response about how dark manip. got so many close range/blap type powers.

Also, the last manip set we got has a ranged cone attack in it. It also has one blap, well two if you count TK thrust but I consider TK thrust a misplaced tier 1 attack. The rest of the set is a mix of ranged and pbaoe powers, with mix and match among those between dmg and support type. In any case it certainly isn't anything like dark manipulation turned out to be. Actually a lot of people were excited about MM as an alternative to EM for a secondary because it finally offered something besides half a dozen blap powers.

I agree devices is somewhat on the fringe. EM not containing ranged attacks isnt really what I was trying to get at when comparing it to DM though. It is ok that EM doesnt have ranged attacks. in fact it isnt even so bad it has several blaps. What makes it different is it has support or self buff type powers that dont require any risk to use.

Electric and fire manip play out more similar then they appear on paper as they share close range attacks coupled with self buff or foe debuff powers that require a fair amount of risk to use. the style of each and utility may differ some, but in a general view I feel they could be lumped up. Dark manip. seems to fit in with this group more then with say, energy or mental. Basically I would group them sort of like this...

Elec and fire. I think Ice fits here too but freezing touch doesnt do enough damage to be a real third blap. Ice could also sort of go with mental with all the pbaoe buff/debuff.
Devices
Energy manip
mental manip

So there is 2.5 sets in one group, and then 3 other sets that play a little different from the others.

thats how I see it, which is why I commented on your template comment. I dont feel enough of the sets are copies of each other to consider there to be a template of sorts. Given what I grouped above, I feel Dark fits in with elec and fire easily.

that in itself isnt a terrible thing. However, given how the forum popular consensus appears to be the only thing /fire is good for is fire/fire or aoe/faceplant builds, and /elec is used for sapping or theme(all else seems to be done at least as good or better by other sets) I found it odd the devs would use those sets as a basis for the new dark set, rather then the more popular mental manip or energy manip sets.

Further, given the changes the game has seen one would think a new secondary would be a perfect opportunity to address some shortcomings the players feel the AT has, or at the least try a few things and use the new set as a test bed to see how things go. Instead, they went back to the 2 sets that are (IMO) the most difficult to leverage and used those as an example for the new set.

Anyway, I guess I wasnt really asking you anything, I was more just jumping in on the conversation. As for how that all relates to the crashless nukes, I feel just as the secondary doesnt have enough consistency to keep the devs from doing something new, I dont think their hands should be bound on the possible revamp of a nuke. As many have pointed out, the contrast in perfomance and utility in the nuke powers just puts a spotlight on the inconsistency. It will ultimatly be up to them if they feel a power like RoA should be the norm, or a power like Inferno should be, or if something totally new or some hybrid should be. I kind of hope the last one.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim View Post
*coughs* Kheldians/Peacebringers *coughs*

Seriously... Arbiter Hawk's reasoning in the past beta as to why Solar Flare could not do KD instead of KB was because it might make Peacebringers do too much damage. I don't think any of us in that thread knew or knows how to respond to that. Arbiter Hawk seems like a nice guy and did some good things, but that... still throws me.

Sorry, I know this discussion has moved on a bit, but I had to talk about that. I am rather confused as to the dev's approach to some ATs compared to others. Scrappers and Brutes, for instance, have been quite strong for a long time and they have a lot of reluctance to bring their performance down at all (I'm not necessarily saying they need to be, but the history does tend to show them getting more favor than other ATs).
I'm aware of that, but that's not quite the same thing. That was not a case of the devs considering a damage buff, and being tentative about whether it would be too high. That was the devs not willing at that time to overturn a design decision made by the original Peacebringer designers to combine AoE attacks with knockback scatter as a counterbalance.

It would be no different if you asked the devs to make Rage perma and have no crash and they said they thought that would generate too much damage out of the box: that doesn't signal being tentative about damage, that's a very specific case being analyzed.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brawlnstein View Post
She isn't infallible and has herself put up posts where she admits she was wrong. One simple thing I see a lot is general presentation of post and attitude seems to bring out posts like that in folks. This isn't meant to be a personal attack, BTW. A valuable poster, so valuable that "they can't afford to employ her!"
Oh I know she's not infallible but it seems from her posts over the years that she's very careful about what she states as fact versus what she states as conjecture. She chooses her words methodically. Can she be wrong? Sure she's still human, but I'd put my money on anything she said was "fact" being right every time.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim View Post
*coughs* Kheldians/Peacebringers *coughs*

Seriously... Arbiter Hawk's reasoning in the past beta as to why Solar Flare could not do KD instead of KB was because it might make Peacebringers do too much damage. I don't think any of us in that thread knew or knows how to respond to that. Arbiter Hawk seems like a nice guy and did some good things, but that... still throws me.

Sorry, I know this discussion has moved on a bit, but I had to talk about that. I am rather confused as to the dev's approach to some ATs compared to others. Scrappers and Brutes, for instance, have been quite strong for a long time and they have a lot of reluctance to bring their performance down at all (I'm not necessarily saying they need to be, but the history does tend to show them getting more favor than other ATs).
Well I for one could see how Hawk would be concerned about giving warshades to much damage. I mean with the perma eclipse thing and the various other benefits the AT gets....

Oh wait you said PB. Yeah those PB are top of the list for game breakers


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldagore View Post
thats how I see it, which is why I commented on your template comment. I dont feel enough of the sets are copies of each other to consider there to be a template of sorts. Given what I grouped above, I feel Dark fits in with elec and fire easily.
Saying there's a basic template for the manipulation sets doesn't mean they are all identical. The fact that you see dark falling within the general limits of what's already been established for the manipulation sets means you agree dark falls within the template currently established for the manipulation sets as I intended to describe it.

There's also a basic template for the blaster primaries as well, even though they are not all alike either. But we all recognize a blaster primary when we see it, and a radical departure from the basics would be relatively easy to notice. Some have snipes, some don't; some have rains, some don't. But there's still an obvious overall pattern to them. The devs try to play with that pattern to a degree, but they don't radically alter it.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Saying there's a basic template for the manipulation sets doesn't mean they are all identical. The fact that you see dark falling within the general limits of what's already been established for the manipulation sets means you agree dark falls within the template currently established for the manipulation sets as I intended to describe it.

There's also a basic template for the blaster primaries as well, even though they are not all alike either. But we all recognize a blaster primary when we see it, and a radical departure from the basics would be relatively easy to notice. Some have snipes, some don't; some have rains, some don't. But there's still an obvious overall pattern to them. The devs try to play with that pattern to a degree, but they don't radically alter it.
I understand your intent now. And I agree on blaster primaries. I dont really agree on the secondaries. The idea dark fits with elec and fire still leaves it not fitting with EM, MM, or devices. The "pattern" as you put it really is only hit or miss in the secondaries. There are similarities here and there, like for instance the blap pattern in EM and ELM, but no two of the manip sets are really similar. EM and ELM share a blap pattern, but the other half of the secondary is very different with EM having self buff clicks and ELM having pbaoe soft controls. ELM and fire share the pbaoe soft control, but fire has pbaoe attacks and ELM has blaps.
If we look at the initial sets, there are numerous unique effect powers scattered throughout. Power boost, boost range, hot feet and burn, chilling embrace, ice patch, most of devices. SO the "template" was pretty freegin diverse, to the point I wouldnt call it a template. If you have most every soft control or secondary effect in the game plus some self buffs and damage powers scattered throughout the secondaries its just too many things to call it a recipe. Like calling the template european food and then looking at pickled herring, crepes, boiled potatoes, and gazpacho. Sure, some of the secondaries share some attributes, and yes, in a broad scope they can play out similar like /fire and /elec can with the need to be in close combat to leverage the sets well, but overall the range of powers and effects is quite large.

Then we see MM, they add a big regen/recovery self boost power, dmg aura with actual mez confuse in it too, and a cone attack. Even with just the cone attack they had broken the so called "template" by adding ranged damage to the secondary.

So I agree there is a fairly standard format to the primary. But I disagree on the secondary. I do not feel there was any obligation or even and need for the devs to follow some kind of set pattern for DM. I feel they missed an opportunity to make a unique set with some really neat powers found throughout the dark powersets, and instead went with something "safe" with a bunch of blaps in another hard to leverage close combat secondary.

Its sort of funny really. Its a contradiction of sorts. Everyone always says melle toons get defenses because of the risk. So if we make DM a set full of blaps, including a build up substitue that requires a crowd to leverage right, did we add some kind of defense toggle, even a fairly reliable soft mez like oppressive gloom or cloak of fear? or an anti aggro toggle like cloak of darkness that adds stealth? or any type of power that can make a spawn slightly less dangerous for the squishy little blaster to engage with the other powers found in the set? No. we put in a dmg aura that does meh dmg and draws aoe aggro as a reward for it. We put in a stun aoe that has on all accounts really bad balance issues regarding cost including but not limited to duration. We put in a cone blap with a fairly long-ish animation time to root the blaster.

Really it sort of flies in the face of what players have been arguing over- the survivability vs dmg output of the blaster. A ranged specialist gets a new set that is designed as a contradiction to the melee risk/defence standard that has few if any tools to aid in that ranged dmg.

So anyway I disagree on the template idea for secondaries. Unless we look at it in the enormously broad scope of does it fit the template of not offering much to alter the shortcomings of the blaster AT. In which case I would agree it fits the template.


*edit

I thought maybe I should add what i was hoping for DM was not some kind of massive shift. Looking at the current secondaries, there really is a wide array of powers and effects. So why then with all that diversity does it just not really work? its the way those powers work in game play, how they need to be leveraged. I understand how there is this fear of tank magery behind the old design. but really it is not so black and white, blasters dont need obsidian shield and dark embrace in the secondary to use blaps. In fact they should not have that as those types of hard defenses also work at range. So you need close combat powers to bring the defenses. "But we have that!!" some one will say. But we dont- not in a way that meshes. DM has blaps. It should have a melee defense to use those blaps. that mellee defense can not work at range. We have powrs in game that function in this way, like oppressive gloom and cloak of fear.

that is the type of change I have been waiting for, a set designed to mesh like 4 blaps and an oppressive gloom to reduce melle damage some to use said blaps. Or a set with self buff clicks like boost range and power boost, but then with support powers like that ranged fear power or a confuse power. and yes, maybe a good ol blap or two. But we continue to get these disjointed contradictory sets instead that dont patch up any of the flaws.

And I really really hope they can see this when they do some kind of nuke change.


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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim View Post
*coughs* Kheldians/Peacebringers *coughs*

Seriously... Arbiter Hawk's reasoning in the past beta as to why Solar Flare could not do KD instead of KB was because it might make Peacebringers do too much damage. I don't think any of us in that thread knew or knows how to respond to that. Arbiter Hawk seems like a nice guy and did some good things, but that... still throws me.

Sorry, I know this discussion has moved on a bit, but I had to talk about that. I am rather confused as to the dev's approach to some ATs compared to others. Scrappers and Brutes, for instance, have been quite strong for a long time and they have a lot of reluctance to bring their performance down at all (I'm not necessarily saying they need to be, but the history does tend to show them getting more favor than other ATs).
I find it particularly interesting that a dev (inadvertedly?) admitted that he finds knockback scatter to be detrimental to a power's effectiveness, and that he actually uses it as a balancing tool to limit AoE damage.

It explains some of the more bizarre decisions they came up with recently, like the massive knockback in Dark Blast's cone, Umbral Torrent.


 

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Originally Posted by Zemblanity View Post
I find it particularly interesting that a dev (inadvertedly?) admitted that he finds knockback scatter to be detrimental to a power's effectiveness, and that he actually uses it as a balancing tool to limit AoE damage.

It explains some of the more bizarre decisions they came up with recently, like the massive knockback in Dark Blast's cone, Umbral Torrent.
Imagine how good AR would be if it did knock down instead of knockback?


 

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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099 View Post
Imagine how good AR would be if it did knock down instead of knockback?
Or Energy! (Power Push and Nova excepted.)