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It was only about a year ago that we paid for GR, and from that standpoint, yeah, it WOULD be nice to get tossed a bone for it. On the other hand, anyone that did not pay for it had no access to it during that period of time, and I did. AND I got those VERY NICE GameStop lvl 1 enhancements that my subsequent alts have enjoyed tremendously.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
-Additionally, giving all VIPs Going Rogue for free doesn't feel fair to those of us who paid for it still fairly recently. At the very least, giving VIPs who owned GR prior to i21 something for it in the way of Paragon Points or a discount in the store is in order, IMO.
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It is tough to wrap my head around the notion that CoH is actually a "service" like cable TV or internet: you pay your monthly fee, you have access. So for it to suddenly be announced that it will be "free" sits a bit badly. Yet it is a Free Enterprise business, not a Public Service. It has to turn a profit or it goes away, like Borders.
I am not emotionally invested in my cable TV service, and should it ever go away, I will not think back on all the great times I had because whatever movies, etc. I watched will likely be available in another venue. But when CoH is gone, my adventures with my heroes in Paragon City will be gone, and that will be very sad. So if F2P keeps the doors open, and I don't get a bone for my GR purchase, so be it. There are baddies to bring to justice.
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
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I lost all my incarnate abilities from that joke! ARGH!
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
-The first thing in the first panel of the intro comic that people see is the MOON. Why do we still have no Moon Zone? I want Johnny Sonata to open his Moon Casino so we can have some damn Wailers on the Moon. . |
Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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IMHO, F2P isn't as accurate of a description nor as useful of a way to look at it as "a la carte" w/ a free trial option.
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Originally Posted by Melancton
It is tough to wrap my head around the notion that CoH is actually a "service" like cable TV or internet: you pay your monthly fee, you have access. So for it to suddenly be announced that it will be "free" sits a bit badly.
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Johnny isn't kvetching about F2P. He's complaining that someone might buy Going Rogue today for full retail, and in September a brand new player would subscribe and get the full content from that expansion as part of his sub without paying an extra $30.
Many people felt similarly when NCSoft bought the game from Cryptic and established NCSoft North/Paragon Studios. NCSoft's first action was to say "It's all one game" and give everyone both CoH and CoV, even if they had never purchased both games.
That was a business decision and this likewise is a business decision. If you bought GR (and I am one who pre-paid for the early access to Pistols and Demons) then your benefit is that you've had months already to play it.
If someone buys GR a month before Freedom launches or even some shorter time period, I agree that they are going to lose value. It would be a good PR move for the powers that be to offer such a person a bonus of Paragon Points or something by way of compensating them for putting their money down now instead of waiting for Freedom to launch.
The counter to this argument is that GR is the new base set and that a truly NEW player will be spending $19.99 to buy City of Heroes, not Going Rogue specifically. He won't actually be "losing value" because he won't be using the same measure of value as a vet would. Indeed, if the VIP sub includes access to the GR item pack content then such a player would GAIN value when Freedom launches by virtue of now having access to those costume bits and emotes.
It's kind of a wash in the end, and a necessary evil in any case. It's not something I'd get too emotional over. Just the cost of progress.
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Stream Gun just sounds...wrong.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
-Beam Gun isn't really a 'beam'. It looks more like 'stream' of energy...
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| -Atlas Statue. With the revamp of Atlas park, I was hoping they would update the Atlas statue to be 'hollow' like it was "originally". |
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| -Pricing options on some store things seem to be a bit steep for VIPs. $10 isn't fair for a power set when you got four of them in Going Rogue, plus a ton of content, new zones, costumes, emotes and enemies. Add that up and look at what we paid for it new. It just doesn't work out to me. |
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| -Additionally, giving all VIPs Going Rogue for free doesn't feel fair to those of us who paid for it still fairly recently... |
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| -The new powers in the travel pool are neat and all, but a lot of them are novelties and, AFAIK, the changes to the pool restrictions don't free up any power picks to allow me to take them so sadly I probably never will. |
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| -The first thing in the first panel of the intro comic that people see is the MOON. Why do we still have no Moon Zone?... |
I would also like to point out that, much like we pointed out with Free Players, the riding of Devs is not a feature included in the launch of Freedom later this year.
Also Johnny, I would like to thank you for the gift basket you sent to the studio.
All joking aside, we continue to be amazed and humbled by the amount of support that our Community continues to show for Issue 21 and Freedom. We're definitely not taking this as an opportunity to sit on our laurels and gloat, but rather as reassurance that our renewed efforts at communication and discussion with our players is the absolute right thing to do.
- Z
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
Thats very cool. I shall be trying to work out how to fit Afterburner into my build.
I don't suppose one of those Unknown Incarnate slots lets you select another power, by any chance? 
ps: Do people still do that First After Dev thing?
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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Particle Rifle, Plasma Gun, Experimental Gluon-Overcharge Node Rifle (E.G.O.N.)|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Stream Gun just sounds...wrong.
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| This is feedback we've received in the closed beta and has been duly noted. It's most likely not in the scope of i21 (I say most likely because the art team has been working miracles lately...so who knows...) but we are aware of it. |
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| Pricing is something we're going to be watching very closely and making adjustments as appropriate. We want to be sure we're continuing to deliver on our goal of providing more value than ever for the VIP subscription. |
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| Also Johnny, I would like to thank you for the gift basket you sent to the studio. |
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A scenario. Cable television is now going to be free. However people getting it for the first time only get to choose two channels and they can only be your local channels. If you have paid for cable in the past then you can pick your two channels from the expanded basic channels but still no premium. If you have purchased premium channels in the past then you can have an extra channel for every premium channel you subscribed to. You can't get any hd or on demand channels unless you subscribe to them.|
Originally Posted by Melancton
It is tough to wrap my head around the notion that CoH is actually a "service" like cable TV or internet: you pay your monthly fee, you have access. So for it to suddenly be announced that it will be "free" sits a bit badly.
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Suddenly "free" cable isn't such a great bargain is it?
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
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Well, the 3 power choices freed up by inherent fitness balances this out i think. If only the two changes came at the same time, there would have been great rejoicing. As is, i see these new powers as a way to balance the investment in travel pools over the many temp powers that they will be releasing in the store. In a sense, it is an incentive for some of us not to buy some of their new shinies!
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
-The new powers in the travel pool are neat and all, but a lot of them are novelties and, AFAIK, the changes to the pool restrictions don't free up any power picks to allow me to take them so sadly I probably never will.
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Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
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Actually... You just hit the "free" nail squarely on the head. See, if I could spend $50 one-time and have HBO forever, I'd be a happy camper because I don't want a monthly cable bill and I don't give a hang about 90% of the available subscription channels.|
Originally Posted by Mandu
A scenario. Cable television is now going to be free. However people getting it for the first time only get to choose two channels and they can only be your local channels. If you have paid for cable in the past then you can pick your two channels from the expanded basic channels but still no premium. If you have purchased premium channels in the past then you can have an extra channel for every premium channel you subscribed to. You can't get any hd or on demand channels unless you subscribe to them.
Suddenly "free" cable isn't such a great bargain is it? |
This is exactly WHY the freemium model works. There is a whole market of people out there who avoid subscriptions on principle but who are not at all averse to buying individual "things" periodically. Especially when buying it means you "own" it instead of "rent" it monthly.
The Paragon Rewards program caters to those people.
"Let me get this straight - I buy that costume pack I like, and I buy Praetoria because I like the idea of switching sides. I get these tokens that give me extra stuff and if I just spend $5 more, I'll have enough tokens to fill that tier and I'll be able to use the mission architect too? I better find another costume pack to buy."
In the cable example, it would be that I buy a bunch of those premium channels and by virtue of spending $100, I start getting HD for free in addition. Meanwhile, you are spending $20 a month to get all of the channels, but you lose those channels if you stop paying.
The free membership DOES look pretty good from that standpoint. It all depends on where you think the value lies and what your feelings are in regards to renting versus owning.
If you don't love 100 per cent of what's done someone will label you as a malcontent. There seems to be a lot of that on this board.
I see free as a great alternative just in case I ever run out of money to subscribe, nice back-up.
Oh and a more "Beamy" powerset would be cool, but beyond varying widths, how different could the effects be?
I wonder if the beam gun models will be usable by those poor neglected Robotics sexyminds.
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Asked and answered.|
Originally Posted by LISAR
I wonder if the beam gun models will be usable by those poor neglected Robotics sexyminds.
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"Probably at some point, but not right away."
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
-Additionally, giving all VIPs Going Rogue for free doesn't feel fair to those of us who paid for it still fairly recently. At the very least, giving VIPs who owned GR prior to i21 something for it in the way of Paragon Points or a discount in the store is in order, IMO.
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Originally Posted by Melancton
It was only about a year ago that we paid for GR, and from that standpoint, yeah, it WOULD be nice to get tossed a bone for it. On the other hand, anyone that did not pay for it had no access to it during that period of time, and I did. AND I got those VERY NICE GameStop lvl 1 enhancements that my subsequent alts have enjoyed tremendously.
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On the other hand, if you bought Going Rogue, you got a free month and 2 character slots so it's not like people will be getting the same benefit as those who actually paid for it. Still it would be nice to get something for it. Maybe give everyone who bought it ONE of the new powersets for free.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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I say call it a Particle Projection Cannon or PPC, that is some old school gaming right there.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Particle Rifle, Plasma Gun, Experimental Gluon-Overcharge Node Rifle (E.G.O.N.)
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NeoSaturn-L50 Kat/Regen Scrapper
Paragon Family Swift
NeoSaturn's Deviations
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Only if we get Harpoon Melee first. |
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
-The first thing in the first panel of the intro comic that people see is the MOON. Why do we still have no Moon Zone? I want Johnny Sonata to open his Moon Casino so we can have some damn Wailers on the Moon.
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And as a side note, I actually respect a lot of the supposed 'malcontents' on this board. Sometimes they're a pain but sometimes they're simply saying things others don't want to hear.
And as a further side note, I'm very happy with what I'm learning about i21 too. Despite what misgivings (actually, more like deep loathing) I have of all things Incarnate, i21 and Freedom seem to be shaping up to be truly spectacular.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
We can join the Jetsons on Moon Vegas.
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
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Wouldn't that just be a re-skin of Archery using the throwing animations?|
Originally Posted by Dante
Only if we get Harpoon Melee first.
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As long as one of the weapon customizations is a trident.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Wouldn't that just be a re-skin of Archery using the throwing animations?
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my heatsinks!
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Originally Posted by neosaturn
i say call it a particle projection cannon or ppc, that is some old school gaming right there.
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Illudium PU-36 Explosive Space Modulator
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Particle Rifle, Plasma Gun, Experimental Gluon-Overcharge Node Rifle (E.G.O.N.)
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my lil RWZ Challenge vid
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Only if it goes 'KABOOM'. |
Originally Posted by Organica
Illudium PU-36 Explosive Space Modulator
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@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
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It would be an Earth-shattering Kaboom.
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Originally Posted by Dante
Only if it goes 'KABOOM'.
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I love discussing and learning about the lore. I think the art team constantly outdoes themselves, especially working in an outdated engine. I appreciate the consistent high level of quality the devs as a whole have shown in most things the past few years.
So, aside from a few things, I'm quite happy with i21/CoH Freedom. I'm mostly positive about it.
That said, I have a few minor quibbles. None of them are deal breakers, or even things that need to be taken care of immediately or at all.
-Beam Gun isn't really a 'beam'. It looks more like 'stream' of energy. Conceptually, I make the distinction. One is like a laser and one is like a flamethrower. Also, I was hoping they'd take advantage of this set to provide a higher level of power customization and you'd have the option to fire the attacks from the gun, from your hands, eyes, chest, etc.
-Atlas Statue. With the revamp of Atlas park, I was hoping they would update the Atlas statue to be 'hollow' like it was "originally".
-Pricing options on some store things seem to be a bit steep for VIPs. $10 isn't fair for a power set when you got four of them in Going Rogue, plus a ton of content, new zones, costumes, emotes and enemies. Add that up and look at what we paid for it new. It just doesn't work out to me.
-Additionally, giving all VIPs Going Rogue for free doesn't feel fair to those of us who paid for it still fairly recently. At the very least, giving VIPs who owned GR prior to i21 something for it in the way of Paragon Points or a discount in the store is in order, IMO.
-The new powers in the travel pool are neat and all, but a lot of them are novelties and, AFAIK, the changes to the pool restrictions don't free up any power picks to allow me to take them so sadly I probably never will.
-The first thing in the first panel of the intro comic that people see is the MOON. Why do we still have no Moon Zone? I want Johnny Sonata to open his Moon Casino so we can have some damn Wailers on the Moon.
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