There's no proof presented that the developers would deliberately change Rage. For Scrappers or everyone.
Hell, I could say a little bird told me that they're removing the ability to stack Rage for Brutes and Tanks just so they can put it on Scrappers. The only recent confirmation of any kind on the matter is what Synapse has said today on the Ustream; that Super Strength on Scrappers is happening eventually. As I suspect is Ice Armor, Energy Melee, etc.
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Scrappers will keep rage, but I'm betting that if the set also goes to Stalkers they'll get BU and nobody will care because only me and like, 5 other forumites will be complaining |
Originally Posted by Rejolt
Arrgh, if Rage was turned into build up, it would have to be a pretty epic build up. The main reason to get Super Strength is Foot Stomp, the awesome look of KO Blow, knockdowns and Rage. You may as well roll a Martial Arts toon without Rage.
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Was there ever a reason given as why exactly it's taking so long for Scrappers to get Super Strength?
To be arguably the most recognizable superpower yet only let 1 hero AT have access to it has always confused me. Really confused me.
The 2nd toon I ever made right after my Blaster was a SS/Inv Tank. Needless to say he got shelved quicker than any other toon I've made. The significant lack of damage on that AT makes SS feel like wet noodle punches.
I was always told that giving SS to Scrappers was simply out of the question because it'd be so overpowered that the nerfs to it would create more trouble than it's worth in the long run...
I settled for rolling up a SS/WP Brute and bringing him Blueside but I'd much rather have a Scrapper!
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That's because the rest of you just lurk the forums with Hide on. |
Originally Posted by Kioshi
Scrappers will keep rage, but I'm betting that if the set also goes to Stalkers they'll get BU and nobody will care because only me and like, 5 other forumites will be complaining
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In all seriousness, I believe all Stalker Primary sets are given a standard Build Up so as to not overpower Assassin Strikes. When Stalkers get Fiery Aura, will they get to keep Fiery Embrace? I'm not sure they will be able to.
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Why wouldn't they? Only one power needs to be replaced when ported for Stalkers, and that's to get Hide in place.|
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
That's because the rest of you just lurk the forums with Hide on.
In all seriousness, I believe all Stalker Primary sets are given a standard Build Up so as to not overpower Assassin Strikes. When Stalkers get Fiery Aura, will they get to keep Fiery Embrace? I'm not sure they will be able to. |
Blazing Aura would follow suit with all past sets, and allow Fire Stalkers to be REALLY FRIGGIN NASTY with their Assassin Strikes
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That's not terribly balanced, now is it? One Stalker Secondary is allowed to massively boost Assasination damage without any outside buffs? And what about the damage from Burn and Rise of the Phoenix? No Stalker Secondary with a Damage component has anything beyond Trivial Damage.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Why wouldn't they? Only one power needs to be replaced when ported for Stalkers, and that's to get Hide in place.
Blazing Aura would follow suit with all past sets, and allow Fire Stalkers to be REALLY FRIGGIN NASTY with their Assassin Strikes |
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That will never happen unless a huje rage nurf. And if they replace rage with BU for scrappers SS, I don't really want to play it.
Speaking strictly from a performance point of view:
I'd play scrapper SS even if Rage became BU.
I'd play nothing but scrapper SS if it gets a direct port (even assuming no crits at all).
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You can do this now with any set with kinetic melee. I double stack build up for with AS all the time. Just build up concentrated strike from hide, placate build up AS. Its a bit harder to do when everything has its attention on you but it works.
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Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
That's not terribly balanced, now is it? One Stalker Secondary is allowed to massively boost Assasination damage without any outside buffs? And what about the damage from Burn and Rise of the Phoenix? No Stalker Secondary with a Damage component has anything beyond Trivial Damage.
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I could see them limiting the effects of stacking rage much like they don't let Soul Drain stack. Not sure it is necessary, just think it's likely.
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Because there would be no reason to ever play a Brute once that happens.|
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
Was there ever a reason given as why exactly it's taking so long for Scrappers to get Super Strength?
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I kid, I kid...maybe.
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Of course it's balanced. It's just as balanced as it is for Scrappers/Brutes/Tankers.|
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
That's not terribly balanced, now is it? One Stalker Secondary is allowed to massively boost Assasination damage without any outside buffs? And what about the damage from Burn and Rise of the Phoenix? No Stalker Secondary with a Damage component has anything beyond Trivial Damage.
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Fire Armor is all about extra damage. That's it's whole purpose.
Hmmm...I'd expect to see lots of ELM/FA Stalkers at that point. Two Pets to let lose before Assassin Strike.
Well have to IO for defense to make it really work though.
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Scrappers can get Super Strength once Brutes get Spines. 
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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That's not the Secondary set doing it, but point definitely taken.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
You can do this now with any set with kinetic melee. I double stack build up for with AS all the time. Just build up concentrated strike from hide, placate build up AS. Its a bit harder to do when everything has its attention on you but it works.
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Scrapper SS would have to have Criticals for me. That's a huge part of the appeal of the AT for me. If some attacks for some reason would not be able to be balanced with a Critical component, make it benefit the Scrapper in another way like KM's Concentrated Strike does.
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
Speaking strictly from a performance point of view:
I'd play scrapper SS even if Rage became BU. I'd play nothing but scrapper SS if it gets a direct port (even assuming no crits at all). |
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Quote:
Soon™
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Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
Scrappers can get Super Strength once Brutes get Spines.
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Or a new set Street Fighting a mix of Super Strength and Martial Arts ^^
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They need to solve the whole "Jekyll and Hyde" issue of the set with Rage.|
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
On today's Ustream Synapse said Super Strength for Scrappers would be happening eventually, but not this round of Powerset Proliferation. Maybe in Powerset Proliferation 4.0?
Here's hoping Ice Armor for Scrappers is also in 4.0! |
Without Rage, the set is DEFINITELY sub-par. With Rage, it's borderline overpowered. Taking into account scrapper damage mods and crit chances, it'd be ridiculously OP on a scrapper as a straight port.
And even if Rage were changed to a quick-charging "build-up" type power, you'd still have problems because of how badly SS performs outside of rage.
Don't even get me STARTED on double-stacked Rage.
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Meh critters will still run all over the place with a SS/FA scrapper so I don't see them replacing SS/FA Brutes. Now a SS/SD scrapper would be beastly.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Because there would be no reason to ever play a Brute once that happens.
I kid, I kid...maybe. |
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Well I see no problem in that. It's the same as scrappers if you remove the damage aura (and Stalkers never get damage auras as you know). Without the dam auras, /DA, /Elec, /Sr, /Regen, /Invul and /Will are doing nothing for your damage (except the recharge buff given by Elec and SR which Stalkers also get). What you say is the sama as saying /Sr and /Shields are unbalanced between scrappers because /SD gets a mini nuke and both can softcap and get capped DDR, the difference being SD needs to spend a lot more to get it.|
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
That's not terribly balanced, now is it? One Stalker Secondary is allowed to massively boost Assasination damage without any outside buffs? And what about the damage from Burn and Rise of the Phoenix? No Stalker Secondary with a Damage component has anything beyond Trivial Damage.
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Also even if you count the damage auras, /FA on scrappers also get RoTp, Burn and FE, three extra sources of damage. Why would it be broken on Stalkers that even with maxed out teammates to help with crits end up doing less damage than scrappers on a team anyway (especially aoe even if you don't count damage auras) - but from a post I saw long ago that counted only ST attacks, with saturated teammates/crit chances, scrappers still come out ahead due to their higher damage modifier.
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Most likely SS/FA will remain a great Brute pairing.|
Originally Posted by Kioshi
Meh critters will still run all over the place with a SS/FA scrapper so I don't see them replacing SS/FA Brutes. Now a SS/SD scrapper would be beastly.
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But that's one combo, and that's also before we actually see what a double stacked rage fueled, FE charged foot stomp or KO Blow critical might look like.
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I haven't discounted this. The dev team is crazy so I wouldn't put stacked rage on scrapper modifiers past them. |
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
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At the same time raising the base damage and replacing rage with build up WOULD be a fair way to deal with both the under-performing without rage and over-performing with it on a scrapper thing.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
But that's one combo, and that's also before we actually see what a double stacked rage fueled, FE charged foot stomp or KO Blow critical might look like.
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Yeah sure it's one combo, just like I'd make a ss/sd scrapper instead of brute because sd has a taunt aura and AAO benefits scrappers much more, even though I don't like scrappers nearly as much as Brutes since now I get to keep my fury. That's of course subjective but I've been playing my SM/Elec Brute and I'm always impressed with her damage solo or not. I only like crits when I can control them, that's why I like Stalkers although I know they're underperformers. I prefer Fury because I just KNOW I'm gonna one-shot that white minion with Swipe on my level 12 claws brute |
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Most likely SS/FA will remain a great Brute pairing.
But that's one combo, and that's also before we actually see what a double stacked rage fueled, FE charged foot stomp or KO Blow critical might look like. |
Quote:
Base Damage on KO Blow for a scrapper:|
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Most likely SS/FA will remain a great Brute pairing.
But that's one combo, and that's also before we actually see what a double stacked rage fueled, FE charged foot stomp or KO Blow critical might look like. |
3.56*62.562 = 222.721
With 95% enhancement and double stacked rage = 295% = 657.027
A crit takes it to 1314.054
FE will then add another 525.622 fire damage
Total damage output = 1839.676
Be well, people of CoH.
Arrgh, if Rage was turned into build up, it would have to be a pretty epic build up. The main reason to get Super Strength is Foot Stomp, the awesome look of KO Blow, knockdowns and Rage. You may as well roll a Martial Arts toon without Rage.
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