Numbers above are too low - you start with a base of 100%, not 0%. Add an additional third of the total to have the correct figures.
Quote:
Shield Charge in, Foot Stomp to shake em up even more, then stave the Big Bad's head in with KO Blow.
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Originally Posted by Kioshi
Meh critters will still run all over the place with a SS/FA scrapper so I don't see them replacing SS/FA Brutes. Now a SS/SD scrapper would be beastly.
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
Yup. Shows how little I've been looking at spreadsheets this past year.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
Numbers above are too low - you start with a base of 100%, not 0%. Add an additional third of the total to have the correct figures.
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Should be base * (1+buffs) Here's the corrections:
Base Damage on KO Blow for a scrapper:
3.56*62.562 = 222.721
With 95% enhancement and double stacked rage = base*(1+2.95) = 879.74795
A crit takes it to 1759.4959
FE will then add another 703.79836 fire damage
Total damage output = 2463.29426
EDIT:
For comparison's sake, here's the brute with 75% fury.
3.56*41.708 = 148.48048
Fury+enhs+ds rage: base*(1+4.05) = 749.826424
With FE: 1049.7569936
Good thing crits are random, right?
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
So, what I'm seeing is, this really proves Brutes are more survivable and Scrappers are more damage |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Yup. Shows how little I've been looking at spreadsheets this past year.
Should be base * (1+buffs) Here's the corrections: Base Damage on KO Blow for a scrapper: 3.56*62.562 = 222.721 With 95% enhancement and double stacked rage = base*(1+2.95) = 879.74795 A crit takes it to 1759.4959 FE will then add another 703.79836 fire damage Total damage output = 2463.29426 EDIT: For comparison's sake, here's the brute with 75% fury. 3.56*41.708 = 148.48048 Fury+enhs+ds rage: base*(1+4.05) = 749.826424 With FE: 1049.7569936 Good thing crits are random, right? |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
Except for claws, yup.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
So, what I'm seeing is, this really proves Brutes are more survivable and Scrappers are more damage
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Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
Scrappers should get the better Claws and SR ported over to them. Yep.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Except for claws, yup.
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Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
Quote:
And Fire Melee right?
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Except for claws, yup.
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Here's a quick look at SS in MIDs if ported as is to scraps with 3 SOs worth on attacks and double stack rage...
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;742;314;628;HEX;| |78DA7D915D4BC33014864FD6EAFCD67AE550A81F0C9D1745D17B51A7305861B01F5| |0E2765C03A12B4911E7957FD88F7F10D32E2B928807C29BF3BC6F92721ABF763700| |DE6F806CDD732A65321C099AE72896623A61236802C0FE82253172C428A6A260942| |7B7A29061ED75F1193389D13065C8C78B36E865290ACC8A68B1D91C4CA73C7A6493| |B460D9647DDEF1B20DAA7D2F7B61923D31CE8AD97645FA48C72864CAF2DD879C8DA| |23B4EDF3089A92C50CCF6F407B6F53A22604A35C0D3E27BB06CA92AEB5807890912| |63342C3DD101CF643CC37C4BABCBDA3AD834C1A631562C557FD4A93E179046790E8| |212D8A9331D68CD2F869615E8682F348F86E691434BD5BF75E0D7C3822A0A6149AA| |B12875EEB8170EB974C89543AE1DD277C8C0AFFF06908AACEED4B3571F6BDA25BFD| |D2F877C3AE4DB213F8E21EFF3| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Looking at WM now ....
Edit:
For WM
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;800;328;656;HEX;| |78DA7D91DD4AC3401085374D6AFDD7F4CAAA506FBCB06A68D57B51AB5068A0E0038| |4B58EEDE29A84DD20D62B5FD89F3788D3384D65571C12CEEE37E72CC96CF8D25D65| |ECED9C39EB57926B1DDD0E154F5350D5908FC490D518633B33168520018290AB4C7| |0195DA84CCF7B5D78805843D0E5EA115B4F89F27BF11814C459305BAC0D92440637| |6234CE443C5AF9D9C9E9D62FD6BDF859687127A4C8261B05E903BF07A5C722AD5FA| |762185C4AFE0A51C875066AB2851FB78F6FCB61547985B9289ECB2A861E4CFFA4F0| |E5F860B1438700A61C7279861EA1C1258F4B6CC1D063F454E9E46A717280BB1AA56| |AE45A3434FFA3DA98F329E793AF6EA811E960A441910659B60D9DBB4FD0DD247793| |BA7B86E6FFD6AE578E9AC6D8F4CAC1E62DABDBB648C722A71639B348DF2203AFBC3| |EE6146469B3BCACFC7D19BBCEEFEEA7453E2CF265916F95ACE7A5| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;800;330;660;HEX;| |78DA7D91DB4AC34010863726B59E35BDB22AD41B2FF422287A2F6A150A0D147C80B| |0D6B15D5CD3B01BC47AE5B37A42050F6F10A77192CAAE3824FCB3DFFFCF92EC8637| |CD39C6EEF699B37024B9D6D16957F124015509794F74599531B65AB028040910845| |CA582CBE840A57AEC35E102620D4193AB4BB4AE06CA6FC57D5010A741D1CC770603| |199C885E3F15716FF66725474B3FEF5BF1B5D0E24C48910E1773D2067E0E4AF7455| |23B4E44373894FC16A290EB14D470193F6E03DF7B565436C15C14CF6593866E8EFE| |C4C933F860B18702E09443A909431F515CCAB8C43C439F502AB47325DFF919FB2A4| |D5529356568F647BDA0E5D39C4FB99AA1C6C82BD23A8DD429B262E838FD86A041E9| |06B9EB8666FFD69A571E351D63C32B0F36DBB2DC6D8BEC5864D7227B16695BA4E39| |5D7C79C9C4C2F959795BDCFA0EBFC763F2DF261912F8B7C03D24CED5D| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Now save those and pair it to any secondary you want ....
Quote:
...I'll be in my bunk.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Base Damage on KO Blow for a scrapper:
3.56*62.562 = 222.721 With 95% enhancement and double stacked rage = base*(1+2.95) = 879.74795 A crit takes it to 1759.4959 FE will then add another 703.79836 fire damage Total damage output = 2463.29426 |
@Demobot
Also on Steam
Looking at 1060 for KoB on maxed out AAO and 2x rage before crit FS at 423
Quote:
Didn't AOE go to Brutes and ST go to Scrappers?
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Except for claws, yup.
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
I see this a lot. Perhaps I'm missing something, but the Claws Scrapper should output a considerably higher AoE damage vs. the Brute. It shouldn't even be close? Spin on a 9 second recharge and extra crits in Eviscerate?
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Except for claws, yup.
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Theorically, if you do nothing but stand still and use Spin the scrapper would do more damage, but ingame, against moving targets with a finite amount of HP and using other powers, you get animation limited very quickly. In the end, the added damage of brute spin more than makes up for the increased recharge and then some.
Like I said long ago, if Scrappers ever got Super Strength, I'd totally make a SS/Shield. Although, for SS/Fire I'll stick with my Brute, that taunt aura is too hard to give up.
That's the one thing I always wanted to add for Scrappers, taunt effects in the damage auras.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
Quote:
Aye, I wish they'd do that. |
Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
That's the one thing I always wanted to add for Scrappers, taunt effects in the damage auras.
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Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
SS probably won't be ported to scrappers as is but would anyone be willing take it as is double rage and all if it was ported sans crits?
Quote:
o.O A Powerset that said "Hey, you don't get your inherent"?|
Originally Posted by Cheetatron
SS probably won't be ported to scrappers as is but would anyone be willing take it as is double rage and all if it was ported sans crits?
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Would they stop SS from being effected by Fury or Gauntlet/Bruising?
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Looking at 1060 for KoB on maxed out AAO and 2x rage before crit
FS at 423 |
(adds up on fingers)
Is that 470 percent base damage? Scrapper cap is 500 percent....
I'd have just worked it out for max and gotten into a red-eatin' frame of mind.
Or take assault. So, purples in both those, plus a second proc for +dam in each? Toss in a six slotted Obi in shield charge, and pile on +rech +def until your arms get tired....
With dual procs and a crit, we're hovering around 2500 for a KOB crit. (!!)
Fire armor will be much, MUCH, higher....
Quote:
Isn't it a tad silly to say that claws is better on brutes than on scrappers in spite of the math due to intangibles after saying in the same thread that the ultimate scrapper primary would be one where you can't do damage 17% of the time because you hit so dang hard when you are permitted to attack?
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
Theorically, if you do nothing but stand still and use Spin the scrapper would do more damage, but ingame, against moving targets with a finite amount of HP and using other powers, you get animation limited very quickly. In the end, the added damage of brute spin more than makes up for the increased recharge and then some.
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I grabbed the template posted earlier for battle axe scraps and tinkered this together:
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1462;691;1382;HEX;| |78DA6593DB72D2501486772088502850DA02B6404B29502869F170A12DADADD5992| |A289519EF1C4C61DBC6C1C00474E4CE67F0C637F099BCF6349EAADE7BC095B53669| |3A6420DFCE9F7F9DB293EA8B3D1F632FB7993479A3ADF67A8D7AD350BB5D6EB8AAE| |A91D6646EC6D8DC486B54799B73A5AA1A7D4D6D37768C7E6FC1BAB7C71F73BDC795| |7DFDF9B3B6CE0DF5506B6BFD41685F3FE606D7FBCA68E1AB753A6DA5C2D5AEA61FF| |9F1E2967674DC872B2F5ED5BB9CB70223578B1BBD63AD1BBAD9D59ACA6EA7356854| |D55E9F1B8328B45684FF3B363A862EC6012576AE4568227C8788F423C4AA86D8302| |79330CAC952B0C8B2D904627511514C22DE8F6C905DAA0152CC7140B88FF0D611E9| |27F6EC1FE0EC14514E8A92294A3E13B54451798AFA086717F5C45C05943EC1D92D1| |2B90B0E533A9F276411BE1C6269C56125CAB24D08F188E13C34DC240D3749531569| |C632F826C8274FD4243343F01E62A542A822F27711B360F793DDE19F41293B4DB8E| |334B10D8680A81BA0BA41AA9B3D53F733384262AA10C3D0A9210E30F51B31FD87F0| |9786FB8790207B98A25878080773823223EACD9CD9C40CD55BA37A32F822C217A1C| |6A3D4783488580B23BE802326FA8A9D40D138BBF09DF00D91E8E0AE2474C4E253C4| |0E649F9364CC3E47D9E7AFC095ECB4B82698026B9C1A91E2B4C309C257382745E96| |419E75DD8245C255C432C6E10CAF8D476215F4AEC488A4AA769A2159A2F04866561| |582643860C191AB90E7972E2A1E6A895377EC60AA2C9C26B2C57DA92CCF1B7209B2| |25E50E52276701DA47521AD47D0352F5B1F24FCCC7D4ACAD6C736CC8FDD5D1F534A| |63CAA531E5F2985219536AB2F5F13209154FD0FA3087275EB82B5A978A38FACF534| |9921EE0032ADDC657E887DD9C43F32FBB593CA757889AD7D4A8CA43DB5AB5AD0F6D| |EB0378AD4B621D9B3E5DBFB5E9359BFE1FE4A2EE0A| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
...yeaaaaah.
This is likely be my new main....
Quote:
Not really a good template there as I just enabled all the attacks to show what It would look like on scraps. Guessing you wouldn't really pick up all the attacks on a build
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Originally Posted by mauk2
I grabbed the template posted earlier for battle axe scraps and tinkered this together:
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Quote:
...But I like having a full ST and a full AOE attack chain on my toons. |
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Not really a good template there as I just enabled all the attacks to show what It would look like on scraps. Guessing you wouldn't really pick up all the attacks on a build
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Also, the only thing I'd swap out for would be a travel power... Yeah, I do like travel powers, so I'd likely drop an attack and go for 'thickening up' the build a trifle.
However, that kitbashed build has perma dp, perma hasten, softcapped S/L/E/N, and all kinds of other goodies, including Real Damage. So yeah, I'm looking real hard at re-rolling my tank.
Quote:
"In spite of the math due to intangibles"? Sorry, no. Just because bad, simplistic math can't take into account all parameters doesn't mean I'm speaking up against math, nor that math couldn't resolve this problem given enough resources. Everything is about math, the only issue is people using that math and their incorrect interpretation of the data.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Isn't it a tad silly to say that claws is better on brutes than on scrappers in spite of the math due to intangibles after saying in the same thread that the ultimate scrapper primary would be one where you can't do damage 17% of the time because you hit so dang hard when you are permitted to attack?
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So it's not what I'm saying at all, but if we leave that part I could answer this just rephrasing my previous reply.
Theorically, if you do nothing but stand still and twiddle your thumbs during rage crashes, other primaries might do more damage, but ingame, with damage procs, reactive interface and other clicks such as Hasten, Active Defense, Conserve Power, Aid Self, Destiny buffs, eventually veteran powers, you still get to use stuff and do some damage during the crash. Additionally, as outside of an ambush farm mobs aren't all clumped together, you can use rage crashes to move to the next group. In the end, the added damage of Rage more than makes up for the crashes and then some, even on brutes with their lower damage mod and even lower relative damage boost due to Fury ; scrappers would of course have it much better.
Edit: ah, yes, now I remember, you're the guy who argued for Scrapper Spin being better than Brute Spin with math taking into account just the numbers of the power in a vacuum. So you're probably trolling out of emotion rather than asking a legitimate question, and will take my comments about "bad math" as a personal attack. Sigh.
Let's take care of what is sure to follow : no, I'm not claiming I can do comprehensive analysis that take into account absolutely everything or even most things, it'd take a phenomenal amount of resources as well as expertise that is likely way beyond my limited abilities. When dealing with parameters I can't quantify properly, I see only three options:
- rely on experience and intuition
- record some hard data ingame
- stick to the few numbers I can easily use
If you use the third option and ignore everything else, it might work if you're looking to win forum arguments. Using all three options are much better if you're looking to have a better performing character ingame.
3.56*62.562 = 222.721
with 95% enhancement and double stacked rage = 295% = 657.027
a crit takes it to 1314.054
fe will then add another 525.622 fire damage
total damage output = 1839.676