Giving the Players what they want: Solo Incarnate Content
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-06-30 10:53 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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How about "I just ran a 5 mission arc with multiple objectives that took an hour and a half and ended with me having to take down a level 54 AV that ignores the No AV difficulty scaling?"|
Originally Posted by bpphantom
I beat up 10 skulz! I r inkarnate! Rawr!
Really Bill? |
Max number of players allowed in arc: 3. Is able to be started with 1. Grants 1 emp merit at completion once a day. Grants chance for astral merits at objective completion. Drops threads.
So yes... really.
Be well, people of CoH.
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I don't need a citation when I can observe for myself. Currently, the most vocal people on this forum are those that are soloers or players disgruntled with the incarnate trial emphasis. They tend to come to these forums for their socializing, and play the game predominately alone and in an instance. You would probably fit this archetype, Bill Z.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Citation needed. I see a lot of people stating that the soloing contingent on the CoH forums is much higher than in game and yet I've never seen a single shred of evidence for that statement.
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The people that enjoy iTrials and teaming are out there playing the game, using global channels, and forming Super Groups and Leagues. They only come to these forums for information and occasional participation. I have rarely if ever heard players call for solo content in the busiest global chat channels in the game, but it is a daily event on these forums with a string of recycled names leading the charge.
If the forums were emblematic of the broader player base, at least with regards to desired solo content, I should hear more than a ping while playing the game.
have you read any threads about trapdoor? here's the deal. i want a solo/small team path eventually, but i also understand that balancing the content and rewards to not disincentivise one play style or the other is going to take a great deal more work than you give it credit for. if its like paper missions/moralities, then they will just find the group they are strong against, ghost what they can and blow through the system like people currently do in those situations. you know all those threads where people seemingly have to make their own thread rather than joining in an existing one about the incarnate system being grindy? making them intermittent drops during specified regular content or a very small number of new incarnate arcs wont fix that(which realistically, is what they will be able to make if they switch gears suddenly from what they are doing now, revamping low level content, more i-trials for the people that have waited several YEARS for a endgame progression system AND giving a lore appropriate zone for magic users in praetoria...also things people have asked for). it will still be grindy and still annoy a vocal subsection of the forums.
and as for the ending in an av thing. I'm going to assume that was a joke, as people were upset about trapdoor and the dual eb fight , a high level av would be an even more unrealistic goal for a good majority of the players without their incarnate powers and would provide no real solution.
Patience.
As I stated in your other thread about the deluge of group focused iTrial content - it's being developed. All in good time.
Not every is an extreme soloist. By far, most people team together.
Which do you think is the larger population? Soloists or people who team?
((Answer: People who team.))
Your solo Incarnate will come - just not right now.
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MMM. So much good. Hopefully some day we can see it in game.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
How about "I just ran a 5 mission arc with multiple objectives that took an hour and a half and ended with me having to take down a level 54 AV that ignores the No AV difficulty scaling?"
Max number of players allowed in arc: 3. Is able to be started with 1. Grants 1 emp merit at completion once a day. Grants chance for astral merits at objective completion. Drops threads. |
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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You'll have to excuse me if I don't consider your observation skills worth much. Confirmation bias is quite common.|
Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
I don't need a citation when I can observe for myself. Currently, the most vocal people on this forum are those that are soloers or players disgruntled with the incarnate trial emphasis. They tend to come to these forums for their socializing, and play the game predominately alone and in an instance. You would probably fit this archetype, Bill Z.
The people that enjoy iTrials and teaming are out there playing the game, using global channels, and forming Super Groups and Leagues. They only come to these forums for information and occasional participation. I have rarely if ever heard players call for solo content in the busiest global chat channels in the game, but it is a daily event on these forums with a string of recycled names leading the charge. If the forums were emblematic of the broader player base, at least with regards to desired solo content, I should hear more than a ping while playing the game. |
From your description, those that enjoy itrials have no families or jobs an don't spend any time on the forums? What are you doing here? However, I know that your description is false. I use global channels and am involved with groups on both red and blue sides. Those groups consist of like minded individuals. The global channel I use for fun to chat while I'm soloing and to join a team should the desire come up.
Did it not occur to you that those you aren't hearing asking for solo content on the global channels are either soloing and don't care or have realized that asking for solo content there serves no purpose? What about the people, as I've mentioned multiple times, that don't gripe in the trials while running them due to the complete lack of any other options for no other reason but that it would also serve no purpose there?
Be well, people of CoH.
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You don't think there are solo players who use global channels and other forms of in-game communication to keep their interest in the game? Just because they aren't vocal in your global channels doesn't mean much.
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Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
I don't need a citation when I can observe for myself. Currently, the most vocal people on this forum are those that are soloers or players disgruntled with the incarnate trial emphasis. They tend to come to these forums for their socializing, and play the game predominately alone and in an instance. You would probably fit this archetype, Bill Z.
The people that enjoy iTrials and teaming are out there playing the game, using global channels, and forming Super Groups and Leagues. They only come to these forums for information and occasional participation. I have rarely if ever heard players call for solo content in the busiest global chat channels in the game, but it is a daily event on these forums with a string of recycled names leading the charge. If the forums were emblematic of the broader player base, at least with regards to desired solo content, I should hear more than a ping while playing the game. |
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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So the forums are not a micrcosm of the views of the broader playerbase but the global chat channels are??!!!|
Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
I don't need a citation when I can observe for myself. Currently, the most vocal people on this forum are those that are soloers or players disgruntled with the incarnate trial emphasis. They tend to come to these forums for their socializing, and play the game predominately alone and in an instance. You would probably fit this archetype, Bill Z.
The people that enjoy iTrials and teaming are out there playing the game, using global channels, and forming Super Groups and Leagues. They only come to these forums for information and occasional participation. I have rarely if ever heard players call for solo content in the busiest global chat channels in the game, but it is a daily event on these forums with a string of recycled names leading the charge. If the forums were emblematic of the broader player base, at least with regards to desired solo content, I should hear more than a ping while playing the game. |
Riiighhhttt.....How many individuals are chatting on these channels at one time? Not logged on, chatting, expressing their opinion. Thousands? Hundreds? A handful of vocal people?
@Doctor Gemini
Arc #271637 - Welcome to M.A.G.I. - An alternative first story arc for magic origin heroes. At Hero Registration you heard the jokes about Azuria always losing things. When she loses the entire M.A.G.I. vault, you are chosen to find it.
I love the raids, but I would also like to run them less often than I currently do. Having story arcs and repeatably incarnate content that I could run, just me and my friends, would please me greatly.
Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
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Drop the emp and make it 3 astrals and you've got a deal.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
How about "I just ran a 5 mission arc with multiple objectives that took an hour and a half and ended with me having to take down a level 54 AV that ignores the No AV difficulty scaling?"
Max number of players allowed in arc: 3. Is able to be started with 1. Grants 1 emp merit at completion once a day. Grants chance for astral merits at objective completion. Drops threads. So yes... really. |
@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
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And we come to the crux of the problem with the anti-raid sentiment on this forums.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
You'll have to excuse me if I don't consider your observation skills worth much. Confirmation bias is quite common.
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Facts are no longer useful. Only the observations of those who support your ideas are are truly useful. Ignore the fact that RWZ is packed daily with people doing PUG raids, since you can explain that away as "it's the only way to earn incarnate awards" instead of admitting that some people like the trials themselves. I know I've run trials on characters I've already maxed T4'd on just because I like to lead them and help others or even like the random teaming to meet new people.
But let's ignore that, because my anecdotal evidence gets in the way of your anecdotal evidence. And since I'm not going to pester the forum community at large by making 4-5 threads a day to post the SAME anecdotal evidence the anti-raiding crowd is, I guess my own experience is trumped by their ability to spam their discontent.
I might be grinding trials. But you are grinding discontent on a message board. At least in the end of the day, I get some shiny badges and some salvage for my troubles.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
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Hmm, I HAVE admitted that there are people that enjoy the trials. I've even, again, stated that I'm happy for them that they go their raid content. Why are you lying about what I've stated?|
Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser
And we come to the crux of the problem with the anti-raid sentiment on this forums.
Facts are no longer useful. Only the observations of those who support your ideas are are truly useful. Ignore the fact that RWZ is packed daily with people doing PUG raids, since you can explain that away as "it's the only way to earn incarnate awards" instead of admitting that some people like the trials themselves. I know I've run trials on characters I've already maxed T4'd on just because I like to lead them and help others or even like the random teaming to meet new people. But let's ignore that, because my anecdotal evidence gets in the way of your anecdotal evidence. And since I'm not going to pester the forum community at large by making 4-5 threads a day to post the SAME anecdotal evidence the anti-raiding crowd is, I guess my own experience is trumped by their ability to spam their discontent. I might be grinding trials. But you are grinding discontent on a message board. At least in the end of the day, I get some shiny badges and some salvage for my troubles. |
At the end of the day (where day is a metaphor for some period of time) what I'll get is quite likely the same thing I've gotten in the past for expressing my opinions on this forum: What I Want.
I wanted SR to get fixed after the GDN. It was. I wanted the Jekyll and Hyde feel of dominators changed. It was. I wanted the feeling back I used to get in the permalude days. I got it with IOs. Did I CAUSE all of that to happen? Of COURSE not. But I was part of what brought about those changes.
Matter of fact, the only thing that I've really wanted and cared strongly about for an extended period of time that has NOT happened yet is offline group invites.
I'm glad to see so many threads pop up on this topic as I'm sure anyone is when they see something they care about get brought up.
Fine. Blame me for the "discontent" on the forums. I'll take it happily and grin about it later when the situation has been resolved.
In the meantime, I'll keep slapping down bad arguments against a change some of us want.
Be well, people of CoH.
Perhaps if the request was phrased as non-trial incarnate progression path rather than solo path it would be better recieved?
Paragonian Knights
Justice Company
Okay, so spamming the same thread over and over again on a daily basis and throwing a forum tantrum is okay as long as you get what you want? Got you.
We get it: you want soloable incarnate content. The devs have heard your cries. And since we're doing trials now that have been in the works for at least a year, it's going to take time to make them. We know there are strike teams doing specific things, so the argument of "ALL RESOURCES ARE DOING RAIDS" now is not credible in this situation.
So if you are saying you and your ilk are essentially holding the forum hostage with the same anti-raiding threads posted multiple times daily, please let us know now. It'll be nice to have a list of forum saboteurs to point to.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
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I qualified my argument by stating, "Currently, the most vocal people on this forum," which is in no way all encompassing. But thanks for trying to twist it into something else Bill Z!|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
You'll have to excuse me if I don't consider your observation skills worth much. Confirmation bias is quite common.
From your description, those that enjoy itrials have no families or jobs an don't spend any time on the forums? What are you doing here? |
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Did it not occur to you that those you aren't hearing asking for solo content on the global channels are either soloing and don't care or have realized that asking for solo content there serves no purpose?
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Originally Posted by Doctor_Gemini
So the forums are not a micrcosm of the views of the broader playerbase but the global chat channels are??!!!
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The only tantrum I have seen today is from TonyV. Do you have others?|
Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser
Okay, so spamming the same thread over and over again on a daily basis and throwing a forum tantrum is okay as long as you get what you want?
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Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser
We get it: you want soloable incarnate content. The devs have heard your cries. And since we're doing trials now that have been in the works for at least a year, it's going to take time to make them. We know there are strike teams doing specific things, so the argument of "ALL RESOURCES ARE DOING RAIDS" now is not credible in this situation.
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Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser
So if you are saying you and your ilk are essentially holding the forum hostage with the same anti-raiding threads posted multiple times daily, please let us know now. It'll be nice to have a list of forum saboteurs to point to.
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You are a perfect example.
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And I can cite that, hey, I HATE the Incarnate trials! I also team regularly, with friends and channel members, and my socialising is done in-game via RP and channels and teams. I play with plenty of teams. And guess what? I STILL hate fragging grindy Incarnate trials.|
Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
I don't need a citation when I can observe for myself. Currently, the most vocal people on this forum are those that are soloers or players disgruntled with the incarnate trial emphasis. They tend to come to these forums for their socializing, and play the game predominately alone and in an instance
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So that 'evidence'?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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This isn't some conspiracy. Surely players are frustrated by combination of new raid content and new raid rewards which was just released. Also, while it is safe to presume that the devs know about the desire for solo incarnate content, if they want to see less threads on the topic, then they should make a statement on the issue.
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Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser
Okay, so spamming the same thread over and over again on a daily basis and throwing a forum tantrum is okay as long as you get what you want? Got you.
We get it: you want soloable incarnate content. The devs have heard your cries. And since we're doing trials now that have been in the works for at least a year, it's going to take time to make them. We know there are strike teams doing specific things, so the argument of "ALL RESOURCES ARE DOING RAIDS" now is not credible in this situation. So if you are saying you and your ilk are essentially holding the forum hostage with the same anti-raiding threads posted multiple times daily, please let us know now. It'll be nice to have a list of forum saboteurs to point to. |
Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
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Oh look! Friggin Taser is lying about me again! I have been posting in threads, true. But spamming them to sabotage the normal functionality of the forums? Mmmmm, no. This is just like old times, man. Remember? Back before that really long forum break you took?
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Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser
Okay, so spamming the same thread over and over again on a daily basis and throwing a forum tantrum is okay as long as you get what you want? Got you.
We get it: you want soloable incarnate content. The devs have heard your cries. And since we're doing trials now that have been in the works for at least a year, it's going to take time to make them. We know there are strike teams doing specific things, so the argument of "ALL RESOURCES ARE DOING RAIDS" now is not credible in this situation. So if you are saying you and your ilk are essentially holding the forum hostage with the same anti-raiding threads posted multiple times daily, please let us know now. It'll be nice to have a list of forum saboteurs to point to. |
Be well, people of CoH.
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Let's ignore the people that aren't content because, hey, SOME people are content! They can just suck it up or, hey, not bother, can't they? Pfftch, who needs to diversify, really? It's not like this games been solo and small-team friendly for seven years and thats the exact reason many people have stuck around, right?
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Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser
And we come to the crux of the problem with the anti-raid sentiment on this forums.
Facts are no longer useful. Only the observations of those who support your ideas are are truly useful. Ignore the fact that RWZ is packed daily with people doing PUG raids, since you can explain that away as "it's the only way to earn incarnate awards" instead of admitting that some people like the trials themselves. I know I've run trials on characters I've already maxed T4'd on just because I like to lead them and help others or even like the random teaming to meet new people. But let's ignore that, because my anecdotal evidence gets in the way of your anecdotal evidence. And since I'm not going to pester the forum community at large by making 4-5 threads a day to post the SAME anecdotal evidence the anti-raiding crowd is, I guess my own experience is trumped by their ability to spam their discontent. I might be grinding trials. But you are grinding discontent on a message board. At least in the end of the day, I get some shiny badges and some salvage for my troubles. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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This seems incredibly false to me. Do you have any evidence? I see many of the same personalities on the forums as I do in the global channels. Heck, they even run the global channels.
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Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
That's my point Bill. There are two VERY distinct communities, and that one uses predominately global channels while the other uses these forums. The people content with iTrial are the happy but unvocal minority on THESE forums.
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Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
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Hey!|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Players who like raids queueing in a place of raids to do raids.
Well, fancy that! Clearly there can't be people who dislike that and simply don't show up there! |
"You talkin' bout me, Rizzo?"
I've been boycotting the iTrials since day one.
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
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The fact that you ignored my original post entirely to martyr yourself and scream "Help, I'm being oppressed" has brought us here, Bill.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Oh look! Friggin Taser is lying about me again! I have been posting in threads, true. But spamming them to sabotage the normal functionality of the forums? Mmmmm, no. This is just like old times, man. Remember? Back before that really long forum break you took?
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Keep ignoring the reality of the situation. The Eiko-Chans of last month are the AmazingMoos of today. We don't need 5-6 threads in this forum every day saying the same thing, with the same handful of posters replying in them en mass to attempt to make this look like more of a critical issue than it is. The devs have promised future solo incarnate content and unless we're all just ignoring reality, we know that development takes time.
But so far this thread I've seen you hand wave any and all evidence that there are actual people who like the trials as faulty evidence because it gets in the way of what you want. I've seen you post your suggestion for soloable content that only the most min-maxed of characters will be able to complete as your great solution.
Great, Bill. When you get your soloable arc with a level 54 AV that only the most PvP IO'd out scrappers can beat, will you also be here to tell the people posting that the devs wasted time on content most of the playerbase can't solo are wrong and gloat that you did it? Or will you just be happy that you got what you wanted and threaten to let your account lapse in protest once you finish it yet again? Why should the devs waste even an hour of programming time on content that negates almost all ATs who can't even solo an EB of even con status let alone an AV just because you are posting a lot?
"Because it gives us more choices!" you'll whine. But you are wrong. That's not a choice. That's a waste of dev resources. Just like these threads are a waste of forum resources.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
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Yeah, it's not like the devs have promised soloable incarnate content in the future and have already announced a system of MONTHLY signature story arcs that promise to be more epic than the current in-game story arcs, giving us more story arcs in one calendar year than we've had in years.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Let's ignore the people that aren't content because, hey, SOME people are content! They can just suck it up or, hey, not bother, can't they? Pfftch, who needs to diversify, really? It's not like this games been solo and small-team friendly for seven years and thats the exact reason many people have stuck around, right?
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Clearly, the devs have ignored solo players and we must spam the forums about it!
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
Really Bill?
I'd like to see:
- some changes to LFG to make it useful (similar to how it works in other games - Dunno about that evening-elf game since I never teamed in it... and was horde).
- more TFs/trials similar to Apex/Tin Mage where a single team is the basis.
- more strategy required (Keyes has this and I like it) rather than tank n spank (though that is fun sometimes as well).
Solo incarnate-ing should be painfully slow and soul-crushingly boring IMO.
@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8