1 Tanker only
Okay, just a few responses to the thread in general:
First, at Tanker Tuesdays we do help people learn to Tank. We may not announce the Tanking 101 stuff at every gathering, but we do tend to show and employ most of the better Tanking tactics (which can be somewhat difficult as a keeping a mass of Tankers from jumping into mobs and mopping the floor with them, prior to explaining tactics, is pretty much impossible). But, we do try our best to bestow as much of our Tanking knowledge as possible as well as pass on build advice and lessons learned from our own experiences.
Second, we've pretty much run all the TF/Trials with all Tanks (the point of Tanker Tuesdays). Just did an all Tanker BAF on Champion...
Third, yes, in the process of all the chaos, mass of mobs, and general banter, we tend to have a lot of fun!
Forth, I like having two or more Tanks on team, especially the folks from TT.
So to sum up, I've never been disappointed in running with more than one Tank on a team, but to each their own.
Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.
If eight Tanks showed up and started whuppin' on me, I'd run too!
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Death by a thousand (okay, maybe ten thousand...ALL RIGHT! A MILLION!) fists to the face.
Okay, pretty much what everyone else said. HOWEVER, there are occasions (like fighting Romulus in the last mission) where multiple sources of elevated aggro can cause the Romulus AI to freak out. On one of the Tanker Tuesdays, we had a situation where Rommy broke contact and sprinted off to the front of the map.
Why? Some people HATE that kind of thing and go out of their way by perpetuating the "more tanks not needed" meme. |
Well. The Tank should be using there Mez protection to avoid that....
OH, you mean Rommie. Nvm.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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If I had to pick a perfect team (and I don't really build teams like this), I would start with support sets, because they make the entire team perform better. After that, I'd look for controls, then AOE damage, then ST damage. A team full of Controllers has support, controls and damage of all sorts. That's why Controllers are a preferred AT. The more of them you add to the team, the better the team performs, without any upper limit on just how good they can get.
I like Tankers a lot, especially as a focal point for AOEs, but they have weak damage and their brand of control doesn't slow damage, it just focuses the damage. That's fine if the Tanker can survive it, but not all can. I love tight packs of targets, so I like to see one Tanker or Brute grabbing aggro on a team. A second doesn't really add much, though, because their damage is just too weak.
Are Brutes valid Tanker replacements? The lack of punchvoke means that things can escape a little more often. They have less HP and weaker defensive powers, so they aren't as survivable. They also don't have Bruising. That said, if they can manage enough survivability, then their offense makes them a very nice step up from Tankers. Again, a second doesn't really bring much to the table, though the damage means I'd rather have a second Brute than a second Tanker.
Whenever I am on a team with another tank I do my best to work together with the other tank to avoid conflicts. I usually have good experience working with other tanks.
So far I have not been rejected from joining a team for being a tank but I have had messages saying they are looking for damage or buffers/debuffers.
Some people are very selective about what ATs are on their teams.
I hate that ****. When I put out a call to do a TF or a trial, I take the first 7 people who show up. I really don't care what AT they are. Someone tells me I have to change my toon to join their team, then I tell them to go **** themselves with a rusty chainsaw and I move on to do something better.
�Life's hard. It's even harder when you're stupid.� ― John Wayne
�Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!� - George Carlin
Too often I see some tanker decide to pull mobs back, somit i might do 1-3 times in a mish, but they do it every time like the perception range of the grp nearby is twice that of what it is and when they do it they pass 3 good potential herdpoints rather than take the first potential one, this doesnt annoy me as I was young once and can only give perfection when I am expecting it off of others but I guess TT can have ppl get away with saying "stop, wth ya doing?" and correct whereas in normal teams the possible expected result is "I play my way".
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I hate that ****. When I put out a call to do a TF or a trial, I take the first 7 people who show up. I really don't care what AT they are. Someone tells me I have to change my toon to join their team, then I tell them to go **** themselves with a rusty chainsaw and I move on to do something better.
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Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.
Uber Talgrim - level 50 emp/dark defender
Uber Rod - level 50 dark melee/regen scrapper
Rod Valdr - level 50 invuln/SS tanker
Talgrim - level 50 ninja/dark mastermind
OMG!! Please add these costume designs now!
To be fair, this occurence happened very early in the game for me. And It never happened since. I just wondered if you others got hit with this.
In terms of damage its true Tankers don't serve up the same kind of smackdown as other AT's, but having said that, a Tanker with most of their attacks 6 slotted can hit very hard. But where a tanker is most valuable is their ability to engage multiple foes.
ive been on teams with 4 tanks/brutes at one time and no one had been asked to changed. IMO if you are requested to change because someone else has a higher lvl tank I would just quit the team because that is just not right to deny someone the right to lvl up their tank and experience the TF.
a Tanker with most of their attacks 6 slotted can hit very hard. But where a tanker is most valuable is their ability to engage multiple foes.
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In general, is there any other AT besides Tankers that run solo with their diff settings at +4x8? I know some brute builds probably do, the odd scrapper, and maybe uber controllers (fire/earth/kin, illusion/storm, etc). I know with incarnate stuff, a lot of different AT's are phenomenal now for solo survivability, which hurts the necessity for tanks a little bit, but IN GENERAL, tanks do what we do - take the hard knocks, and dish it back, albeit more slowly than others, but ultimately, we're there to help protect the rest of the team.
Most players in-game know me for my tanks, but I do have scrappers, a brute, a troll, and an MM that I can easily switch to if it will benefit the team dynamic to do so, and I will usually offer that if I see 2 or more tanks already on the team. If there is only one other tank on team already, I ain't switchin' - especially for TF's and such, 2 tanks increase team survivability because, in my experience, we're always fighting over the aggro cap.
PS - Since uber controllers, crabs, corruptors, scrappers and the like can solo AV's now, why the heck can't tanks? If those "slighter" built AT's can survive and triumph, then I think Tanks deserve an immediate increase adjustment to their dps/dmg scaling. It makes no sense to me that someone can solo, for example, the ITF - and I can too on my tank, until Romy - just can't do enough dps to take him down. This screams to me "misbalance!"
Since uber controllers, crabs, corruptors, scrappers and the like can solo AV's now, why the heck can't tanks? If those "slighter" built AT's can survive and triumph, then I think Tanks deserve an immediate increase adjustment to their dps/dmg scaling. It makes no sense to me that someone can solo, for example, the ITF - and I can too on my tank, until Romy - just can't do enough dps to take him down. This screams to me "misbalance!"
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But a few points:
-A few combos of Tankers can solo a few of the weaker AVs with IOs and Bruising.
-Incarnate Tankers can solo more of the AVs and even a few GMs, if you consider throwing your lore pets at it "soloing".
That being said: If you're building for extreme performance, Tankers are a poor platform to build from. You'll quickly hit the damage cap for them and they'll still do less damage than a comparable Brute or Scrapper. Meanwhile, you can keep layering more and more defenses on a Brute to the point they can go up against AVs and GMs with little fear, and they'll retain superior damage to a Tanker. Tankers are a dead end; a throwback to a time before even Blasters could softcap their defenses.
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Current active characters: Dragon Maiden (50+3 Brute SS/WP/PM), Black Widow Maiden (50+1 Night Widow), Catayclasmic Ariel (50 lvl Defender - Kin/DP), Quantumshock (50 lvl Elect/Energy/Energy), American's Defender (38 lvl Tanker - SD/Mace), Spider-Maiden (15 lvl Corruptor - RB/PD) & Siren Shrike (15 lvl Defender - Sonic/Sonic). My entire stable.
I am not an AT snob and usually do not mind if I have several tanks on a team. The only time I really mind it and it might bother me a little is when I want to complete a mission/tf/trial quickly and tanks, generally, make this slower than a toon with more dps. At these times I'd rather have 7 blasters/corruptors and one tank! But generally, if a player knows how to play, any AT is good.
Global Name: Denver Nugget
Playing since i3 on 8 servers
Wow thread necromancy
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Still a relevant discussion
Generally this game is forgiving enough that it shouldn't matter if you have an extra tanker or not, but for whatever it's worth, I think that extra tankers are probably the least "stackable" extra AT in the game.
Sure you could argue that an extra tank can grab an extra spawn, handle overflow aggro etc. but all in all, I would argue that you get more mileage on the whole from something else.
After I 22 this "everyone else" will also include stalkers, if it doesn't already.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
Nobody is perfect. In that regard, having a 'backup' tank isn't a bad idea. The lead tank might miss some guys or go over aggro cap. Then the squishies might need some help. As others have said you're better off with another team.
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
Sure a Brute will be better than a second Tanker, but if you're not willing to settle as a team leader you'll be wasting your time while the "slower" team is already in the middle stages of the TF.
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That's dumb. It's an extreme example, of course - the fact that I remember it vividly as a stand-alone memory just goes to show. But the principle still applies in less extreme cases. It's fairly hard to tune a group for most TFs that will really reliably pay off the time spent tuning.
I am not an AT snob and usually do not mind if I have several tanks on a team. The only time I really mind it and it might bother me a little is when I want to complete a mission/tf/trial quickly and tanks, generally, make this slower than a toon with more dps. At these times I'd rather have 7 blasters/corruptors and one tank! But generally, if a player knows how to play, any AT is good.
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Dead end? No. Out of line with the rest of the AT's and the game? Most certainly. This is why it is imperative that the developers address this in the same manner they've addressed the others. Otherwise, what you stated may end up being true and tankers could quite possibly end up being a rarely seen or used by players in the game.
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We see how that worked out.
People make hyperbolic statements all the time. Luckily for this game 95% of them NEVER come true.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Why?
Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.