Quote:
Meh, all it tells me is that leader had no idea how to run the team w/o it being a predefiined setup.
|
Originally Posted by Zandock
All this tells me is that you're not a team player. If someone asks you to switch because it would be beneficial to the team, there's no reason to get all huffy about it.
|
Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.
Quote:
wha...?
|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
Yet all tanker tuesdays offer the possibility of someone leveling a tanker with no one to tank for. I never got the idea of it, it's something I wouldn't even be seen dead in. I completed an all scrapper STF before someone from the scrapper section ever did to kill two birds with one stone, 1) to prove that if I can do it with a scrapper, then as eggs is eggs I could of done the all tanker version and 2) not have to be seen in an all tanker team. So the all scrapper STF got done before the all tanker purely because I hate teamin with other tankers if I am tanking. Scrapper teams failed till someone with a totally tank mindset changed AT and done it for them just because they would never be seen dead tanking for tanks.
|
Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.
Quote:
Yeah, I was more than a little baffled by that, too. |
Originally Posted by NuclearMedicine
wha...?
|
What does it matter that there's "no one to tank for"? We do it because it's, well, fun. Isn't that aupposed to be the point of the whole exercise?
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
Quote:
Like said before the leader dose not know how to lead becouse if a person wanted to play a tank then I say let them play a tank or anything else they want to. And I would quit as well but before I do I would tel them about the other times when I have been on teams with more then 1 tank.
|
Originally Posted by Zandock
All this tells me is that you're not a team player. If someone asks you to switch because it would be beneficial to the team, there's no reason to get all huffy about it.
As for the subject at hand, I usually won't care if I happen to get two tanks on my team, just because most content in this game is so easy. I do know that usually any spot on the team taken by a Tanker could be better used by another AT, though, and if given a choice between a Tank or something else it isn't really a hard decision. |
Quote:
Well the point is for us to have fun, but also learn more on how to tank, but it is not always lvling a lower lvl tank, there has been a few all tanker trials and TFs, including Mo runs (mostly on Justice). I have seen Scrappers who think they can tank go down real fast.
|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
Yet all tanker tuesdays offer the possibility of someone leveling a tanker with no one to tank for. I never got the idea of it, it's something I wouldn't even be seen dead in. I completed an all scrapper STF before someone from the scrapper section ever did to kill two birds with one stone, 1) to prove that if I can do it with a scrapper, then as eggs is eggs I could of done the all tanker version and 2) not have to be seen in an all tanker team. So the all scrapper STF got done before the all tanker purely because I hate teamin with other tankers if I am tanking. Scrapper teams failed till someone with a totally tank mindset changed AT and done it for them just because they would never be seen dead tanking for tanks.
|
Quote:
I've seen tankers with hope that they can tank go down real fast. Most forumites who've been playing since the beginning have experienced being that said tanker.|
Originally Posted by LSK
Well the point is for us to have fun, but also learn more on how to tank, but it is not always lvling a lower lvl tank, there has been a few all tanker trials and TFs, including Mo runs (mostly on Justice). I have seen Scrappers who think they can tank go down real fast.
|
I can't help but feel that there is more to learn from actually tanking for pick n mix random pugs vs anything than there is in an all tanker team because you actually have people you should be tanking for.
I wouldn't mind joining a tanker tuesday thingy with a scrapper someday.
Just to clarify tho more than one tank on a prestige farming AE thingy is alright in my book.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I thought the whole idea of Tanker Tuesday was just Tankers getting together for the fun of it. I don't think you can really learn anything about tanking on a team full of Tankers.
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
Quote:
I have to disagree- if a leader is looking for balance or a mix of ATs to go into a task force or strike force, he is just doing his job. If you are leading a team and doing an LGTF and don't want to spend ~20 extra mins just taking on green mito's because you don't have a troller or dominator, I think you are doing your job. Some tasks pretty much call for a mix or certain ATs to be included so that you don't get stuck in the mud. |
Originally Posted by LSK
Like said before the leader dose not know how to lead becouse if a person wanted to play a tank then I say let them play a tank or anything else they want to. And I would quit as well but before I do I would tel them about the other times when I have been on teams with more then 1 tank.
|
I recently joined an LGTF on a brute to find that there were about 3 other brutes on staff, a tanker, 2 scrappers and I believe a corruptor. I looked around for the controller/dominator, didn't find one, and asked if there were plans to get one or someone alting out to grab one. No such plans existed. At that point, I knew that this wasn't the TF for me, because I knew I would not enjoy the additional time spent on the mito mission. So it may not be your cup of tea, but it is shortsighted to just call the leader poor because he is looking for something to balance things out or make things easier.
I have different alts I can change to because I enjoy flexibility. Sometimes in this game, things move smoother and in a more timely manner because of the ability to alt out.
On the flipside, sure, I enjoy doing a good all scrapper ITF or all defender/corruptor Apex as much as the next person. But when I create such SF teams, I make sure every person that joins knows beforehand that there will be only that one AT or mix of ATs on the team, so come with the expectation that things may be more difficult or take more time than if we were taking on any AT available.
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
Quote:
I think Silas is right; however, on Tanker Tuesday, anyone who is new to tanking can learn a lot from the people who have been playing for years and have vast amounts of knowledge to share regarding what set combos might appeal to people under what circumstances and help with builds. It's fun to see that in action without anyone having to worry about squishies or the gritty truth being obscured by defender buffs that make a build seem more awesome than it might actually be (*ahem* endurance hogs *ahem*). |
Originally Posted by Silas
I thought the whole idea of Tanker Tuesday was just Tankers getting together for the fun of it. I don't think you can really learn anything about tanking on a team full of Tankers.
|
I think people forget that the game is supposed to be about fun. I have such difficulty wrapping my brain around the mentality: "We need to get this TF done!!!" Why? You got a hot date or something? If you have a time constraint, why are you running a TF? Isn't the point of playing this game, actually PLAYING the game? I find that overcoming a challenge is much more satisfying than just blowing through something. Since this thread is about 2 tanks, I'll just say this: I tend to play defenders and I love my team tanks!!! They keep my squishy def alive, and they are fun to watch handle the mobs. It's not that I don't understand the sentiment of a balanced team, but I'll echo others' comments that as long as the players are good, the ATs don't make or break it. I ran a LGTF where we had to rely somewhat on my defender's hold (DP has cryo hold) to get through the mitos. Did it take a lot to get through it? Yes. Was it a bit of a drag? Yes. Was I sorry I ran the TF with that group? Not at all. It just proves sometimes it takes a lot of patience and persistence to get through something - a good lesson to learn.
Quote:
Don't forget, there is a large school of people out there that would define a challenge as running through a SF as quickly as possible. I am certainly in that school myself. If we aren't going fast, I'm probably not having fun. That is just the way I play, so I know it isn't for everyone. |
Originally Posted by Callie Sunshine
I think people forget that the game is supposed to be about fun. I have such difficulty wrapping my brain around the mentality: "We need to get this TF done!!!" Why? You got a hot date or something? If you have a time constraint, why are you running a TF? Isn't the point of playing this game, actually PLAYING the game? I find that overcoming a challenge is much more satisfying than just blowing through something.
|
So it is definitely good to point out that your idea of in game fun is running SFs at a comfortable pace, but there is probably a Praetorian version of you that enjoys mowing through SFs at breakneck speed. Is one of you right? No. Is one wrong? No. Is one more evil than the other? Probably. Can we all have fun by stating up front what kind of TF action turns us on and group accordingly? Definitely.
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
Quote:
I totally agree with you, Magikwand - to each his or her own. I have done both speed and non-speed, set to -1/0 and +1/8, and anywhere in between. More fun comes from the people you team with having similar goals in mind. There's no "good" or "evil" here, just differing preferences. I would also like to believe that the majority of players are somewhere in-between the extremes. There's something to be said for a good leader who can consider the composition of a team and pacing without necessarily limiting the fun of other people who might have a specific AT they want to run. However, you are right, and if the team leader's goals are not compatible with your AT, and he or she decides not to take you on the team, then that's the way it is. Go find a team with more flexibility. The people are likely to be more fun and have a better sense of humor and outlook on life anyhow. |
Originally Posted by magikwand
So it is definitely good to point out that your idea of in game fun is running SFs at a comfortable pace, but there is probably a Praetorian version of you that enjoys mowing through SFs at breakneck speed. Is one of you right? No. Is one wrong? No. Is one more evil than the other? Probably. Can we all have fun by stating up front what kind of TF action turns us on and group accordingly? Definitely.
|
Like you said, "Group accordingly."
Quote:
One or two-shotting is kind of an arbitrary measure, since not all powersets have huge burst damage attacks. However...| are there other "support" AT's that can two shot some lieutenants? |
Measured by pylon tests, my defender's DPS (without Lore pets) is 190, equivalent to a low-damage scrapper. For reference, my Katana scrapper's DPS under the same conditions is 250. I am sure that many corruptors and controllers built for damage can do much better.
Note: I have nothing against more than one tanker on a team.
Quote:
I like how you start off with "to each his or her own", and then end by subtly implying that people who reject you from their team have a worse sense of humor and outlook on life.|
Originally Posted by Callie Sunshine
I totally agree with you, Magikwand - to each his or her own. I have done both speed and non-speed, set to -1/0 and +1/8, and anywhere in between. More fun comes from the people you team with having similar goals in mind. There's no "good" or "evil" here, just differing preferences. I would also like to believe that the majority of players are somewhere in-between the extremes. There's something to be said for a good leader who can consider the composition of a team and pacing without necessarily limiting the fun of other people who might have a specific AT they want to run. However, you are right, and if the team leader's goals are not compatible with your AT, and he or she decides not to take you on the team, then that's the way it is. Go find a team with more flexibility. The people are likely to be more fun and have a better sense of humor and outlook on life anyhow.
Like you said, "Group accordingly." |
I think that people should be free to team or not team with anyone, for any reason at all.
There is 1 thing lot of ppl are forgetting is the fact that Tanks are supposed to keep the Aggro now I know there has been many cases as of late where the tank dose not take taunt for it is a farmer tank (AE FARMS BLA). Now have that tank on a team with those other types on it and u have a dead team, now if u have 2 tanks to keep aggro u will have a better chance of surviving. I just did a STF with no tank but I was on my brute and another person was on there brute, I was the lead Brute/tank u might say (manly I had taunt and the other didnt) when we went up against the 4 AVs we tried to pull 1 at a time failed missarably but I taunted GW away whilst the rest of the team finished off scicarro. Now picture it with a tank with no taunt what would happen then? That is why sometimes it is better to have 2 or ore tanks to cover 1 another. Its like the trials U would not could not see only 1 tank on a BAF or Lambda could u? Who is the lead tank then?
Sure a Brute will be better than a second Tanker, but if you're not willing to settle as a team leader you'll be wasting your time while the "slower" team is already in the middle stages of the TF.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
I've not really noticed this at all. I agree that there is a bit of a conflict between Brutes and Tanks.
But yeah, I can see where one could have the sentiment that, well, we already have one tank, why do we need another, unless the first tank doesn't know how to tank, didn't take taunt (because taunt is for losers), is a tool, and somehow expects to tank Recluse... But I digress.
Uber Talgrim - level 50 emp/dark defender
Uber Rod - level 50 dark melee/regen scrapper
Rod Valdr - level 50 invuln/SS tanker
Talgrim - level 50 ninja/dark mastermind
OMG!! Please add these costume designs now!
Quote:
Granted the LGTF is a special case where you need a well balanced team. But the original post was about the ITF, which does not really have the same requirements at all. I've been on plenty of ITFs where either I or someone else was the second tank. No one said anything about it.
|
Originally Posted by magikwand
I have to disagree- if a leader is looking for balance or a mix of ATs to go into a task force or strike force, he is just doing his job. If you are leading a team and doing an LGTF and don't want to spend ~20 extra mins just taking on green mito's because you don't have a troller or dominator, I think you are doing your job. Some tasks pretty much call for a mix or certain ATs to be included so that you don't get stuck in the mud.
I recently joined an LGTF on a brute to find that there were about 3 other brutes on staff, a tanker, 2 scrappers and I believe a corruptor. I looked around for the controller/dominator, didn't find one, and asked if there were plans to get one or someone alting out to grab one. No such plans existed. At that point, I knew that this wasn't the TF for me, because I knew I would not enjoy the additional time spent on the mito mission. So it may not be your cup of tea, but it is shortsighted to just call the leader poor because he is looking for something to balance things out or make things easier. I have different alts I can change to because I enjoy flexibility. Sometimes in this game, things move smoother and in a more timely manner because of the ability to alt out. On the flipside, sure, I enjoy doing a good all scrapper ITF or all defender/corruptor Apex as much as the next person. But when I create such SF teams, I make sure every person that joins knows beforehand that there will be only that one AT or mix of ATs on the team, so come with the expectation that things may be more difficult or take more time than if we were taking on any AT available. |
Uber Talgrim - level 50 emp/dark defender
Uber Rod - level 50 dark melee/regen scrapper
Rod Valdr - level 50 invuln/SS tanker
Talgrim - level 50 ninja/dark mastermind
OMG!! Please add these costume designs now!
Quote:
Oh, I know ITF is definitely not a special team requirement, I was just pulling that as an example of an SF that does have one. I have completed ITFs on all kinds of teams. All stalker, all blaster, all defender, you name it. So no, I am not saying that ITF calls for a specialty roster.
|
Originally Posted by UberRod
Granted the LGTF is a special case where you need a well balanced team. But the original post was about the ITF, which does not really have the same requirements at all. I've been on plenty of ITFs where either I or someone else was the second tank. No one said anything about it.
|
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
Quote:
Not "people who reject you from their team have a worse sense of humor and outlook on life," but rather people who are inflexible, who are likely the people under discussion here. You are right, nobody should be forced to team under any circumstances, but the OP was asking opinions as to the situation of only one tank being allowable on a team (especially on something like an ITF that doesn't require specific composition). Seems like a very inflexible position to me. Others have stated why there may or may not be valid reasons for taking the postion. But, in the end you've captured the kernel of it: You can't make someone take you on a team nor should he or she have to. People tend to be put off by rejection, so they want to understand the reasons for it and why it might occur, when the answer may just be others don't have to have a reason, they're free to do what they want. That said, I still believe people prefer to play on a server where people are welcoming and willing to help others by working with whatever anyone has to offer - in my opinion, good players make it work. As Magikwand noted, for me it's a preference thing.
|
Originally Posted by Laevateinn
I like how you start off with "to each his or her own", and then end by subtly implying that people who reject you from their team have a worse sense of humor and outlook on life.
I think that people should be free to team or not team with anyone, for any reason at all. |
Jumping into the thread kinda late, so I won't be responding to anything in particular.
I like having another tank on the team, because one of two things happens:
1) I get the other tank claiming Dark Armor sucks, then I survive more stuff than he does.
2) The other tank is a decent guy who can hold his own and I get to switch to my Scranker build. The one that actually has to use Dark Regeneration, but gets Hasten, Build Up, and two more AoEs from his epic in return.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by magikwand
I have to disagree- if a leader is looking for balance or a mix of ATs to go into a task force or strike force, he is just doing his job. If you are leading a team and doing an LGTF and don't want to spend ~20 extra mins just taking on green mito's because you don't have a troller or dominator, I think you are doing your job. Some tasks pretty much call for a mix or certain ATs to be included so that you don't get stuck in the mud.
I recently joined an LGTF on a brute to find that there were about 3 other brutes on staff, a tanker, 2 scrappers and I believe a corruptor. I looked around for the controller/dominator, didn't find one, and asked if there were plans to get one or someone alting out to grab one. No such plans existed. At that point, I knew that this wasn't the TF for me, because I knew I would not enjoy the additional time spent on the mito mission. So it may not be your cup of tea, but it is shortsighted to just call the leader poor because he is looking for something to balance things out or make things easier. ... |
On the other hand, I've joined LGTFs where the team lead spent those 10+ minutes looking for a troller/dom when sufficient mag to hold a green mito was already on the team. 2 blasters with holds and I think I was playing a scrapper with Char. That's more than enough to hold a green mito.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
People actually notices who's what on a team?
I am only sure of the following when I join a team...
a. at least 1 Scrapper or
b. at least 1 Brute or
c. at least 1 Tank
is gonna be on that team... a-c depends of course on what I feel like playing that day...
Quote:
Taunt is for losers? I totally disagree with that statement. Secondly I mentioned we had not Tank on the team so the brutes stepped up. Granted Brutes are not as tuff as a tank, but we got it done anyway.
|
Originally Posted by UberRod
I've not really noticed this at all. I agree that there is a bit of a conflict between Brutes and Tanks.
But yeah, I can see where one could have the sentiment that, well, we already have one tank, why do we need another, unless the first tank doesn't know how to tank, didn't take taunt (because taunt is for losers), is a tool, and somehow expects to tank Recluse... But I digress. |
Quote:
Okay, pretty much what everyone else said. HOWEVER, there are occasions (like fighting Romulus in the last mission) where multiple sources of elevated aggro can cause the Romulus AI to freak out. On one of the Tanker Tuesdays, we had a situation where Rommy broke contact and sprinted off to the front of the map.|
Originally Posted by BigBoss Eyepatch
Have you ever been in situation where you show up for a TF, and somebody else already has a tanker there, and the team leader is like, oh you'll have to change, we've already got a tank.
I remember long ago, I had my invul / SS and he was level 40, and was my highest level character, and there was an ITF forming. I showed up, chuffed to bits. Well, there happens to be a level 50 Tanker there, also Invulnerable. So naturally, I am requested to not use my Tanker. Yet, and I remember this because I scribbled it down because I was going to tell my mate another CoH player in work and I just found this bit of paper now. There were: 3 controllers 2 Scrappers 1 Blaster 2 Tankers So, I remember I had a mini argument, and I basically said, well, you're happy to have 3 controllers, but won't allow a second tanker. I don't understand why I have to change, when going on the figures, asking a controller to change would be more prudent. So it went back and forth, and I said, I can't do the ITF with anybody else, because this is my highest character and I dropped the team then feeling miserable and rejected. (lol awwwww.) I see it a lot, people don't seem to want more than one Tanker, but will happily take multiple other AT's. Why is it, there is this "one Tanker only" unwritten rule? I get that DPS wise there are better to be had for sure in melee and ranged. But Tankers are not THAT bad, especially once their big nuke attacks are 6 slotted out and land after a tier 1. I've seen Tankers who readily one shot minions and two and three shotting lieutenants and they are done, are there other "support" AT's that can two shot some lieutenants? On an 8 hero / villain team, I think having 2 tankers is not bad. I like all the AT's in the game, but for that sheer unstoppable melee feeling, there is NOTHING in CoH IMHO that compares to a tanker. |
Why?
Some people HATE that kind of thing and go out of their way by perpetuating the "more tanks not needed" meme.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
If anyone ever tells me I need to switch off a tanker, I immediately quit team and go do something else. (But it's been years since I had to.)
Hands-down, the easiest and most fun TF's I've ever done were on Tanker Tuesdays.
If two tanks are too many, WTF is going on with EIGHT?
People who say that sort of thing are idiots.
As for the subject at hand, I usually won't care if I happen to get two tanks on my team, just because most content in this game is so easy. I do know that usually any spot on the team taken by a Tanker could be better used by another AT, though, and if given a choice between a Tank or something else it isn't really a hard decision.