Free the names!


2short2care

 

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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman View Post
Even if there were a rule to superhero naming - and there is none - you mean exceptions, plural. Claiming that only certain names work for superheroes is as pointless as claiming "all of the good names are taken".
/agrees 100%

*You* may not like certain names - but that's your own self imposed limitation. Not a rule for everyone else.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman View Post
Even if there were a rule to superhero naming - and there is none - you mean exceptions, plural. Claiming that only certain names work for superheroes is as pointless as claiming "all of the good names are taken".
I claimed no such thing. I said that the devs recognized that names in the superhero genre held a different character than in other genres, your attempts to cling to every edge case not withstanding.

Probably would have been easier for you to just admit that those names are a very distinct minority in the genre than to try to score points over the semantics of "exceptions" vs "exception" but, hey, internet arguments and all.


 

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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman View Post
* Off the top of my head, I can think of two that have "Carrot" in them. Try getting away with that in a typical "orcs 'n' dorks" fantasy setting.
Captain Carrot Ironfoundersson serves with other Dwarfs, Trolls, Humans, Werewolves, Undead, and Gnomes under the command of Sir Vimes.


 

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Originally Posted by Jophiel View Post
I claimed no such thing. I said that the devs recognized that names in the superhero genre held a different character than in other genres, your attempts to cling to every edge case not withstanding.
Now who's arguing semantics? Are you telling us with a straight face that you posted your paraphrase of the devs' position - including your own unique example of a name that was somehow acceptable in a fantasy game but not a superhero one - but in your heart of hearts you disagreed with it?

If you can provide a quote of precisely what the devs said, I'll address that. If you've accurately summarized their contention that superhero names are "a different animal", then let me state for the record, having furnished several counter-examples of all-but-unpronounceable names* from three prominent comics in three very different superheroic subgenres, that the devs are wrong.

* Ignoring the even more numerous examples of merely silly sounding ones.

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Originally Posted by MajorDecoy View Post
Captain Carrot Ironfoundersson serves with other Dwarfs, Trolls, Humans, Werewolves, Undead, and Gnomes under the command of Sir Vimes.
Much as I appreciate the works of Sir Terry Pratchett, he writes parodies (excellent, witty, hilarious parodies) of fantasy, not typical fantasy. There's a reason why Professor Tolkien's books, with their stringent linguistic rules and high tone, have been adapted into video games but not his. And if I tried to play a character named after one from Bored of the Rings in one of them, I'd be breaking immersion (and would probably get generic'ed by a mod).

Were this a literary discussion in the common room at All Souls College, I might be moved to debate that this is because superhero comics, unlike the purer genres of science fiction and fantasy, are inherently aware of their absurd element and, at their best, incorporate it into their character (Superman has Mxyzptlk and Bizzaro, and Batman, the preeminently intimidating superhero, has an arch-nemesis who regularly laughs in his face). It's not, so I'm going to get back to levelling Codename Carrot-top, who blended in without comment on the Virtue server last night.


 

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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman View Post
Now who's arguing semantics? Are you telling us with a straight face that you posted your paraphrase of the devs' position - including your own unique example of a name that was somehow acceptable in a fantasy game but not a superhero one - but in your heart of hearts you disagreed with it?
Wow... getting desperate much? Why, yes! Yes, you are. I'd have thought a reasonable person would take that to mean "The majority of the time, people use XYZ names whereas in the fantasy genre you see a lot more of ABC names" but, again, this is the internet so I guess I was giving you a bit too much credit. Understood for next time.

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If you can provide a quote of precisely what the devs said, I'll address that.
Unfortunately, the Dev Tracker itself can't be searched and I don't remember exactly which red name said it so... eh. Take it or leave it.

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let me state for the record, having furnished several counter-examples of all-but-unpronounceable names* from three prominent comics in three very different superheroic subgenres
Ok, the point was waaaaaaayyy over there but the good news is that it'll still be waiting for you when you get there. Lemme know, thanks!

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Originally Posted by Me!
Probably would have been easier for you to just admit that those names are a very distinct minority in the genre than to try to score points over the semantics of "exceptions" vs "exception" but, hey, internet arguments and all.


 

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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman View Post
Actually, that's not the case in either example I was thinking of.
Actually, the Flaming Carrot was exactly the character I was thinking of when I said "animate carrot". Do you not know what words mean?


 

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I've no idea what's up with the "Carrot" thing. That would be a great, folksy name for a halfling/hobbit type or someone from a farming community. I suppose a dwarf or something named Carrot (Deadly Carrot, Carrotbeard, whatever) would be taken more as a joke but it'd be a far cry from the usual female ogres named Mamabighugglezzz and Hugebewwbz.

Anachronistic names are more fun. Anyone remember the flack in an early MMORPG over "Patiofurniture" on the RP server?

Anyone who thinks a name involving "Carrot" wouldn't fly in a fantasy based MMORPG has obviously never played a fantasy based MMORPG.


 

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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman View Post
Much as I appreciate the works of Sir Terry Pratchett, he writes parodies (excellent, witty, hilarious parodies) of fantasy, not typical fantasy.
Ah, the No True Scotsman fallacy. Delicious.
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There's a reason why Professor Tolkien's books, with their stringent linguistic rules and high tone, have been adapted into video games but not his.
Look at how wrong you are.


 

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*I* have all the good names. I have hoarded them on the various servers. ALL of the good names. I have the last 36 good names reserved on all servers. These are it, folks. These are the very, very last of the good names.

I am willing to part with some of these names. 1bil inf per name. Compose and email with the inf and which name you are wanting. You will NOT get a good name w/o paying me because I have them all.

@cossatot


 

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Originally Posted by Jophiel View Post
Anachronistic names are more fun. Anyone remember the flack in an early MMORPG over "Patiofurniture" on the RP server?
Sounds like an Irish name to me.

Paddy O'Furniture


 

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Originally Posted by Emberly View Post
Ah, the No True Scotsman fallacy. Delicious.

Got to say you are wrong with that idea.

A parody of the genre is not the same as an example of the genre, hence it being a parody.

Barry Potter and the chamber of comerce, is not for example a childrens fantasy book. Despite parodying the Harry Potter series.


Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

 

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Originally Posted by rsclark View Post
Actually, the Flaming Carrot was exactly the character I was thinking of when I said "animate carrot". Do you not know what words mean?
Flaming Carrot is wearing a giant carrot mask* - he's not an "animate carrot". He's a surreal character, but not that surreal.

* It contains a secret compartment where he keeps his nuclear-powered pogo stick.

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Originally Posted by Emberly View Post
Ah, the No True Scotsman fallacy.
I was quite explicit in stating a "typical" fantasy setting in order to rule out parodic ones (not an insignificant subgenre). In Bored of the Rings, the protagonist is named "Frito", and one of the armies is composed of animate vegetables. It's not widely considered a typical example of fantasy.

RPGs, where players can name their characters, are under discussion here, not third-person point-and-click adventure games in which all players control the specific protagonist, whose name is the author's choice, not theirs. Honestly, that would be relevant here only if this CoH required players to chose from pre-determined lists for their characters' names.

(The forum ban on mentioning other video games really crimps these discussions. We all know about a certain MMORPG adapted from the works of a famous Oxford don, so why can't we come out and say it?)

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Originally Posted by all_hell View Post
*I* have all the good names. I have hoarded them on the various servers.
You scurrilous cad!


 

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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman View Post
We all know about a certain MMORPG adapted from the works of a famous Oxford don
Yeah, played it. Carrot would be fine there.


 

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Actually I can imagine Carrotbeard being a perfectly normal nickname for a person with a strawberry-blonde full beard.


Also I do think taking the time to free up names or implement a system where this is done automatically would be more important than implementing the whole Incarnate business at all to begin with. I mean it's a roleplaying game, not a hunter and gatherer game.
Certainly it is reasonable to suppose people to choose a different but still very fitting name if that particular one is taken, but at some point the reasonable alternatives might just all be gone (particularly if you're not all that creative with language), which I think would be worse than some guy finding out that his one character that he played some year ago suddenly would have to choose a different name, especially because if the alternatives regularly open up there's no problem for anyone to take these names as opportunity arrises, whereas this problem would over time steadily increase if no according measures were taken.

Let's please not assume that everyone is a genius character creator who comes up with the most unusual persons who in turn can make use of the most unusal names, but instead that the average Joe comes up with average heroes with average hero names. I wonder just how many Captain America or Superman variants there are as opposed to Tokyo Akazukin or Wolpertinger variants...


 

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Originally Posted by Jophiel View Post
Yeah, played it. Carrot would be fine there.
Well, hobbits do tend to have pastorally themed nicknames, so it would probably have gotten by. Their actual names have very different rules of construction, though, so Prof. T would have given a gamma for that. He was, after all, profoundly obsessed with the linguistic aspects of his fantasy world. The success of his books unfortunately has ensured that most would-be writers of high fantasy often become entangled in their attempts to devise their own ersatz high elvish and the like.

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Originally Posted by Sumpfkraut View Post
Actually I can imagine Carrotbeard being a perfectly normal nickname for a person with a strawberry-blonde full beard.
If you want to write the adventures of Carrotbeard the Barbarian, by all means go for it. The genre could use some envelope-pushing, and it's been a while since there was a top-notch fantasy protagonist* with a name like Grey Mouser. As I've said, it's all in the execution.

* Whoever derails this thread into a discussion of what constitutes a top-notch fantasy character wins the Internet.

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Let's please not assume that everyone is a genius character creator who comes up with the most unusual persons who in turn can make use of the most unusal names, but instead that the average Joe comes up with average heroes with average hero names.
In all seriousness, I do not believe this to be true. Creativity is a skill, not an innate talent, and numerous tools and exercises already exist to develop and promote it (and are only a Google search away on the web). The best ways to stifle it, however, are to establish arbitrary and unchallenged rules of what constitutes the "good", fixate on limited possibilities, and, worst of all, give up trying.


 

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I don't have the endurance to write down stories, as much as I do like coming up with them. I imagine I could draw ocassional small sketches though, albeit they would look like mudslime. I'm ony really good at drawing psychotic horror-trip monsters upfront.


Well, so-called "talents" are really only honed skills, and I don't see how my post makes it seem as though I thought different, but as a matter of fact not all people have their skills developed equally, or even sometimes stiffled (bad pedagogy, accidents damaging a repsectively important part of the body, etc.), which is what I was talking about.
But I guess you're right, those inhibitors you listed are probably the worst. Which, however, doesn't mean at all we can't do our best to at least weaken those inhibitors we can do something about, one of which is unusable names.

And I do think it is perfectly acceptable to set arbitrary personal rules for something that you want to make appear in an arbitrarily chosen special fashion, particularly because this isn't science that can influence society's way and quality of life, but indeed a very private and leisurely activity. I certainly wasn't happy at all when I realised I couldn't do a reasonably true to the original Tokyo Akazukin-hommage, because I just love both comic and character.


 

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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman View Post
There's a reason why Professor Tolkien's books, with their stringent linguistic rules and high tone, have been adapted into video games but not his. And if I tried to play a character named after one from Bored of the Rings in one of them, I'd be breaking immersion (and would probably get generic'ed by a mod).
Sadly, you are wrong. As a lifetime subscriber to that other MMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman View Post
Well, hobbits do tend to have pastorally themed nicknames, so it would probably have gotten by. Their actual names have very different rules of construction, though, so Prof. T would have given a gamma for that. He was, after all, profoundly obsessed with the linguistic aspects of his fantasy world. The success of his books unfortunately has ensured that most would-be writers of high fantasy often become entangled in their attempts to devise their own ersatz high elvish and the like.
And again sadly, the devs/gms of that game don't give a crap about any of that. I was forced to run several raids in Moria with a dwarf named BigButt McGee and even reported his name to no avail.

People HERE give a lot more of a crap about names than there. Especially now that the game's been ruined by F2P


 

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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman View Post
Well, hobbits do tend to have pastorally themed nicknames, so it would probably have gotten by. Their actual names have very different rules of construction, though, so Prof. T would have given a gamma for that. He was, after all, profoundly obsessed with the linguistic aspects of his fantasy world. The success of his books unfortunately has ensured that most would-be writers of high fantasy often become entangled in their attempts to devise their own ersatz high elvish and the like.
That has nothing to do with MMORPGs and what names will get "modded" in an "Orks 'n Dorks" (as you put it) fantasy MMORPG. Your quaint notions of what'll fly in the fantasy MMORPG world suggests that you've never actually played any of them.


 

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Originally Posted by Jophiel View Post
That has nothing to do with MMORPGs and what names will get "modded" in an "Orks 'n Dorks" (as you put it) fantasy MMORPG. Your quaint notions of what'll fly in the fantasy MMORPG world suggests that you've never actually played any of them.

Very few people actually read the ToS for MMO's.

Even fewer actually read the 'rules' for their server type.

They still complain and pettition about every name they dislike, even the ones that don't break the rules.


Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

 

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Level-Packing occurs when you take several characters who are all the same level and package them in the same container.
Actually, I thought it was throwing several characters in a crate, realizing that some stick up more than others, and stomping on them til they're all level. Kinda like what Reichsmann tries to do.


Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas

Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.

 

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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
Very few people actually read the ToS for MMO's.

Even fewer actually read the 'rules' for their server type.
Ignorance of such rules doesn't confer immunity to them. Lack of enforcement does.


Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas

Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.

 

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Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker View Post
Ignorance of such rules doesn't confer immunity to them. Lack of enforcement does.
I assumed his point was that usually it was the people complaining that were ignorant of the rules.


 

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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman View Post
RPGs, where players can name their characters, are under discussion here, not third-person point-and-click adventure games in which all players control the specific protagonist, whose name is the author's choice, not theirs.
Fwiw, there is/was a Discworld MUD too. You got to name your character and everything.


 

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Originally Posted by Biowraith View Post
Fwiw, there is/was a Discworld MUD too. You got to name your character and everything.
Well, then, I stand corrected.


 

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Originally Posted by rsclark View Post
I assumed his point was that usually it was the people complaining that were ignorant of the rules.

Exactly that.

Having to explain to numpty after numpty, that no your character does not know the given name of my mask wearing, mystery rogue. However his nom de plume or street name, might be known. So why would he be Tobias Jackmoorn, when he masquerades as the dashing Rapier, scourge of the upper classes.

But apparantly it is totally in the rules that your character had to have a 'real' name (it wasn't btw).


Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.