Quote:
Yes. From personal experience. Other people should get over themselves.
|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Would YOU be okay with it if you had to quit for an extended period of time and came back to find that your favorite character's name had been taken because someone else wanted it while you were gone?
|
Quote:
But they aren't giving all your stuff away. They are freeing up a name that isn't being used in case someone else might want to use it.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Or would you tell them, "Sorry, you left so we gave your stuff away"
|
Quote:
| Would YOU be okay with it if you had to quit for an extended period of time and came back to find that your favorite character's name had been taken because someone else wanted it while you were gone? |
Quote:
| Or would you chalk it up to "I guess if I really wanted that name I'd have kept paying for an account I couldn't afford for a game I was physically incapable of playing." |
Quote:
| Sucks for any military personel that get deployed for extended periods of time. Quite frequently the military will tell you that you're being deployed for a year, it's amazing how often they extend that because they happen to need you where you are. So, the guy who gets deployed to Afghanistan for 2 years finally resubscribes to play his favorite game when he returns home, and finds that his characters' names have all been stripped from him. That'd be great, wouldn't it? |
Quote:
| Start stripping away names from formerly actively played accounts and you're going to have former customers that will REMAIN "former" customers. But that's okay, because YOU got the name you wanted, who cares if that guy who wanted to come back and subscribe again decided not to because of it. |
Their silence speaks volumes. It didn't happen then when they freed names on inactive accounts all the way up to level 35, it won't happen now.
Quote:
So, the silence of people who do not have active accounts is to be taken as an indication that those people are okay with losing their names? |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Their silence speaks volumes. It didn't happen then when they freed names on inactive accounts all the way up to level 35, it won't happen now.
|
Even though by not having an active account those people are not permitted to post on the forums in order to voice their displeasure.
Okay then.
"You didn't say anything in a place where you aren't allowed to say anything, so we just assumed you didn't mind."
Makes perfect sense.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
You claimed they would outraged and might cancel their subs if they came back and found their names were taken. Well in order to do that they would have to reactivate their accounts. People with active accounts can post on the forums. So if they were as pissed as you claim they would be then the first thing they would have done is post outraged threads on the forums demanding to know why their names were gone. It didn't happen. There was no outrage voiced by returning players after the last two times the script was run.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
So, the silence of people who do not have active accounts is to be taken as an indication that those people are okay with it?
Even though by not having an active account those people are not permitted to post on the forums to voice their displeasure. Okay then. |
So it's quite obvious that it's not as big a deal to people as you want everyone to believe.
I think cross-server teaming is something they've been looking at for a while.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
I honestly hope that's the reason they aren't planning on running the name script. The players with active accounts on one server have just as much right to their names as the people with active accounts and the same names on the other servers. So I'd remove my objection to unique names if we got cross server teaming.
|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I think cross-server teaming is something they've been looking at for a while.
|
Quote:
No, I've been saying that it's a potential factor, borne out by individual experiences, that can't be handwaved away since we don't have any actual data (and I bet NCSoft doesn't have especially solid numbers either). It's more intellectually supportable than the proposition that "the good names are running out", though. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
So it's quite obvious that it's not as big a deal to people as you want everyone to believe.
|
Here's an experiment Paragon could run, if they had the time, staff, and money:
A) Announce a reactivation weekend and a name purge in advanceIt's not a question of whether or not players try to make characters with pre-existing names, it's whether that problem is sufficiently important to dedicate limited resources to addressing.
B) Run the name-purge script beforehand to allow current subscribers to pick from the results
C) Some period of time after the reactivation weekend, tally how many returning players' accounts were re-subscribed out of the total and compare to previous reactivation weekends' results
D) Of the resubscribers, flag those accounts with generic'ed character names and track how long their subscriptions last against the average attrition rate
E) Print out that analysis for marketing to use in their weekly paper airplane dogfight contest
The Magic 8-Ball says "signs point to no".
Quote:
I'd be okay with that. I don't generally expect a company to provide a service to me if I stop paying for it, and I expect them to put the satisfaction of paying customers above that of non-paying ex-customers.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Would YOU be okay with it if you had to quit for an extended period of time and came back to find that your favorite character's name had been taken because someone else wanted it while you were gone?
|
I think it's really nice of Paragon Studios to let people keep their old character names in case they want to come back, but I don't think they have any kind of obligation to do it.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
Quote:
Please take note that I was responding directly to what Claws said and not you. |
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
No, I've been saying that it's a potential factor
|
Quote:
Here's an experiment Paragon could run, if they had the time, staff, and money:A) Announce a reactivation weekend and a name purge in advance |
After the script was run the first time they reviewed the data and determined thst the majority of names freed the first time were level 6 and under. So when they ran it the second time they lowered the level limit to 6 and under.
Quote:
| It's not a question of whether or not players try to make characters with pre-existing names, it's whether that problem is sufficiently important to dedicate limited resources to addressing. |
The name freeing script has already been developed and requires no more resources to develop. The devs can run it any time they choose.
Quote:
| The Magic 8-Ball says "signs point to no". |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
However, to be perfectly clear: We are not currently planning another name purge in the near future. There are reasons for this, which I am not at liberty to discuss at the moment.
|
Okay, here's an idea. And since Z said there's not going to be a name purge anytime in the near future, I know it's totally moot, but oh well, here it is anyway. The goals are to 1) reward players who have been in the game a while, while 2) allowing even the newest of players to have an identity.
The idea is that the day you sign up, you get to designate one of your characters per server to be your "permanent" identity. That means that no one can take your name. By default, it will be the first character that you create, but if you make a second, third, fourth, or whateverth, you can change your "permanent token" to be attached to any of your other characters at any time. If you leave, quit, or whatever, that name is never released or purged.
For every month of paid subscription, you get credit for a month of unpaid subscription before your names are purged. So if you sign up for the game and keep your subscription active for 18 months and then unsubscribe, your non-permanent names will be purged 18 months after your subscription runs out. If you subscribe for nine months, then quit for five, then re-sign up for six months, you have a total credit of ten months without being purged (since you've used up five already) if you quit again.
For every year of paid subscription time played (i.e. it would work like Veteran Rewards, you get this after the time played, not immediately upon paying), you get another "permanent name" token on every server that, by default, gets assigned to your oldest character that doesn't have one. Of course, you can change that token to another character if you want. It's retroactive, so if you've been playing since launch, you will have eight names right now on every server (your original one, plus seven for the seven years you've been playing) reserved that can never be purged. Yes, it sounds like a lot, but if you've been playing the game for seven years, you've spent at least at least something like $1,300 on the game, quite possibly over $1,500 if you've bought all or most of the expansions, bonus packs, etc. As far as I'm concerned, you've earned that leeway.
Few minor little mop-up points: If you rename a permanent tokened character, the new name becomes reserved and the old name is released. If you move a permanent tokened character to another server, it is automatically "untokened." On the character's old server, the token automatically reverts to the oldest remaining character on that server. On the new server, you have to explicitly change a token to the moved character, unless you have enough tokens on that server to already cover him or her. Also, after a name purge each month, any supergroup that consists only of name-purged characters gets its name purged also. Trial accounts don't get any permanent tokens, but they do get a month of reservation time starting from when the trial account is created. If you haven't subscribed after a month, *purge!*.
Like I said, I realize that this is all just a thought experiment since apparently it's not going to happen any time soon. And yes, I know that some people still won't be happy on both sides--people who think that more names should be reservable, people who think that more should be purged. Still, I think it's a happy medium in trying to be fair to everyone.
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
Quote:
Did they run the script prior to any kind of welcome back promotion? That's a necessary factor in attempting to determine how a name purge could impact attracting former players.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
That's pretty much what the devs did when they ran the script the last two times. If I recall correctly we had at least a months notice it was going to happen, and we were told exactly what was going to happen.
|
Quote:
| The name freeing script has already been developed and requires no more resources to develop. The devs can run it any time they choose. |
That's an interesting idea Tony.
I say the recent seven year anniversary should be the foundation of a new name release rule.
If account hasn't been active in the past seven years, the names of all the account's characters should be released, regardless of level.
If the account owner does come back after more than a seven year absence, let them pick new names.
Quote:
I'll point out in my copypasta I stretched the "inactive" (as opposed to trial, which I *still* think should be regularly wiped) account time to 6 months, as there's a group I think that would affect. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Ironik isn't talking about losing names while he account is active. he's talking about the times his account was inactive.
That being said, a company can't be expected to make decisions based on the possibility that unusual circumstances may happen to some of their customers. The average player isn't going to be hospitalized for over a year on a regular basis. The average player isn't going to be out of the country for over a year on a regular basis. (And I'm saying that as a Veteran who knows first hand about deployments. We aren't the majority of customers) Besides it's just as likely that people who are working and get sent out of the country or are away from the game for extended periods of time will simply keep letting their monthly fees get paid on their CC so they keep earning Vet Rewards that way when they get back they get a lot of new goodies to play with. |
Students.
At 6 months, they could (given how money - or just not wanting distractions - as a student can be) unsub during school, resub during vacations/breaks, and preserve the name "rights" they have.
Quote:
Because attracting back former customers can be ignored? Honestly, this is not the way subscription or association memberships work in the business world.
|
Originally Posted by TonyV
The goals are to 1) reward players who have been in the game a while, while 2) allowing even the newest of players to have an identity.
|
Quote:
Pretty sure there were some special events/promotions and release of new issues going on prior to the scripts being run. Can't remember exactly which ones, but they all brought in an influx of returning players.|
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Did they run the script prior to any kind of welcome back promotion? That's a necessary factor in attempting to determine how a name purge could impact attracting former players.
|
Quote:
| Evidently you're interested only in the technical aspect of this, not the business nor management ones. (And unless you've seen the script's code and know how Paragon's player database is structured, then you're making assumptions of your own.) But in a real company, a supervisor would have to sign off on this and justify it to their boss, who then would have to coordinate with other departments, such as customer service and sales and marketing departments. And even then, IT is going to have to double-check everything before hitting "run" because this is making a change to the player database, the most valuable piece of software on Paragon's servers (yes, more vaulable than the game engine). Database management is, by necessity, a conservative and slow-moving enterprise. |
Quote:
Giving former customers a guarunteed length of time their favorite character names are safe that increases the longer they keep their accounts active would be ignoring them? |
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Because attracting back former customers can be ignored? Honestly, this is not the way subscription or association memberships work in the business world.
|
You have a strange definition if the word ignore.
Quote:
There's a bit of a flaw there. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
You claimed they would outraged and might cancel their subs if they came back and found their names were taken. Well in order to do that they would have to reactivate their accounts. People with active accounts can post on the forums. So if they were as pissed as you claim they would be then the first thing they would have done is post outraged threads on the forums demanding to know why their names were gone. It didn't happen. There was no outrage voiced by returning players after the last two times the script was run.
So it's quite obvious that it's not as big a deal to people as you want everyone to believe. |
We are all aware that only a fraction of the playerbase uses the forums at all.
Now, those of us who DO use the forums regularly (like you and I) are less likely to quit for extended periods unless we have no choice. That's because to us, this is more than just a video game, it is a community that we enjoy being a part of. Thus, we are highly unlikely to be losing a name in any purge that happens.
On the other hand, those who view CoH as nothing more than a video game aren't likely to use the forums in the first place, and even less likely to come and complain when they come back after a break and find their names gone. They will more likely just cancel their subscription again and go somewhere else.
You flaw there is assuming that anyone who has a problem with losing a name will automatically come to the forums to complain, when in actuality, those most likely to lose a name are also the least likely to come to the forums with their complaint.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
Since this plan doesn't have any provisions to be applied retroactively, yes.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Giving former customers a guarunteed length of time their favorite character names are safe that increases the longer they keep their accounts active would be ignoring them?
|
EDIT: For clarity's sake (not that this thread hasn't grown muddy enough), I mean Since this plan doesn't have any specific provision for how to apply this retroactively to former subscribers, if at all.
Quote:
And an even smaller fraction of the playerbase are active American military personel serving in the middle east.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
There's a bit of a flaw there.
We are all aware that only a fraction of the playerbase uses the forums at all. |
Quote:
| On the other hand, those who view CoH as nothing more than a video game aren't likely to use the forums in the first place, and even less likely to come and complain when they come back after a break and find their names gone. They will more likely just cancel their subscription again and go somewhere else. |
Quote:
| You flaw there is assuming that anyone who has a problem with losing a name will automatically come to the forums to complain, when in actuality, those most likely to lose a name are also the least likely to come to the forums with their complaint. |
Quote:
This is quite true. I have a cousin who was in CoH's original beta with me back in the day. His main, post-launch, got up into the mid twenties right before the first publish (when 40 was the max level). Long story short, his account became inactive then.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
You flaw there is assuming that anyone who has a problem with losing a name will automatically come to the forums to complain, when in actuality, those most likely to lose a name are also the least likely to come to the forums with their complaint.
|
Recently, he came back... but he had to rename his main toon, as that name had been long taken by someone else. He didn't complain on the forums... just spent two days looking at a name with periods on either side, and went off to another superhero game where he could have 'his' name.
I'm actually in favor of freeing up names that are on inactive accounts... however, I am quite well aware of what that means in relation to those who might want to return.
Explorer: 93%. Achiever: 40%. Socializer: 40%. Killer 33%.
Current Heroes and Villains (altitis holding at 50 currents)
To all the devs, past, present, (and may there be) future: /salute
To NCSoft: Understand that you reap what you plant, and you cannot gain what you throw away.
Quote:
The company is under no obligation to apply anything retroactively to non paying former customers. If they want to be generous they can send out emails.
|
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Since this plan doesn't have any provisions to be applied retroactively, yes.
|
Quote:
Yeah well Perfect Pain bought a lifetime subscription to a game she claims she hates so she can complain about it on their forums. |
Originally Posted by Myrdinn
This is quite true. I have a cousin who was in CoH's original beta with me back in the day. His main, post-launch, got up into the mid twenties right before the first publish (when 40 was the max level). Long story short, his account became inactive then.
Recently, he came back... but he had to rename his main toon, as that name had been long taken by someone else. He didn't complain on the forums... just spent two days looking at a name with periods on either side, and went off to another superhero game where he could have 'his' name. I'm actually in favor of freeing up names that are on inactive accounts... however, I am quite well aware of what that means in relation to those who might want to return. |
Morel of the story, There is always an exception to the rule.
Quote:
Generally, aye. He didn't head to that one, from what I understand... prior to CoH, we were Jedi. So, he headed to the other, other superhero bit (he, ah, also works for said company's overlord company).|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Yeah well Perfect Pain bought a lifetime subscription to a game she claims she hates so she can complain about it on their forums.
Morel of the story, There is always an exception to the rule. |
...and is disgusted, but, hey. ;-)
Explorer: 93%. Achiever: 40%. Socializer: 40%. Killer 33%.
Current Heroes and Villains (altitis holding at 50 currents)
To all the devs, past, present, (and may there be) future: /salute
To NCSoft: Understand that you reap what you plant, and you cannot gain what you throw away.
If you have a potentially returning customer, wouldn't you want them to be able to come back and have everything as they left it?
Or would you tell them, "Sorry, you left so we gave your stuff away"
Speaking for myself here, if I were forced to stop paying for my account for 6 months and came back to find that all my character names had been taken away, I would very likely quit playing and never give NCSoft another dime of my money.
Would YOU be okay with it if you had to quit for an extended period of time and came back to find that your favorite character's name had been taken because someone else wanted it while you were gone?
Or would you chalk it up to "I guess if I really wanted that name I'd have kept paying for an account I couldn't afford for a game I was physically incapable of playing."
Sucks for any military personel that get deployed for extended periods of time. Quite frequently the military will tell you that you're being deployed for a year, it's amazing how often they extend that because they happen to need you where you are. So, the guy who gets deployed to Afghanistan for 2 years finally resubscribes to play his favorite game when he returns home, and finds that his characters' names have all been stripped from him. That'd be great, wouldn't it?
Strip the names from un-upgraded trial accounts, that I have no issue with. Start stripping away names from formerly actively played accounts and you're going to have former customers that will REMAIN "former" customers. But that's okay, because YOU got the name you wanted, who cares if that guy who wanted to come back and subscribe again decided not to because of it.
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.