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I believe, but could be wrong, that many of the folks farming with ss/fa are skipping rage, partially because of the red insp macros, and partially due to the crash.
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Originally Posted by Dr_Brainbottle
Does the impressive-looking damage bonus of rage get ED-ed into irrelevancy when you pop enough red inspirations, or something?
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Does anyone know off hand the AE map for "Frontload" is?
Id like to mention ball lighting has a target cap on 16, did you account for this? And of course burn, but you noticed that.
Id also like to mention i for one generally use ball before i use fences.
"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
Bill, I also don't see FE factored in at all as well.
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Oh, i actually forgot about that too haha.
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Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
Bill, I also don't see FE factored in at all as well.
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"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
Aye, Amy, FE went into the same warp hole as burn and blazing aura.
Speaking of which, does anyone have the real numbers handy on the new burn and fiery embrace?
Ultrawatt, nope, I didn't notice the higher enemy cap on ball lightning. I'll correct for that as well.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Bill, what's the re-draw like on a Claws build? I remember reading you say that re-draw kills the use of Gloom in an optimal Claws chain - wondering if this hurts Claws or not. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Aye, Amy, FE went into the same warp hole as burn and blazing aura.
Speaking of which, does anyone have the real numbers handy on the new burn and fiery embrace? Ultrawatt, nope, I didn't notice the higher enemy cap on ball lightning. I'll correct for that as well. |
One thing I can say about these missions is that I am almost always at the damage cap ... I rarely use Rage on my SS/FA these days (although I did leveling up via AE). Inspiration combining macros changed my CoH life. You might want to run these simulations without Rage and Follow Up, as I think at the very top level of minion slaughter, they aren't as necessary. But I could be wrong about that.
dangit.... see what 7 months off does to a man's brain? Yes, redraw time has to be added in as well.
Just as an example, in the chain I posted above, there's 3 redraws. At .63 seconds each, you have to add 1.89 seconds, which drops even that chain from Base DPS of Claws chain: 22.199 (*9 = 199.791) to 180.315 and the big total from 97149 to 87633.09 which has it only beating single stacked rage SS.
That's not good.
Be well, people of CoH.
So redraw does actually slow things down?
"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
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Haha! After all this Billz math says exactly the oposite of what he was trying to prove.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
dangit.... see what 7 months off does to a man's brain? Yes, redraw time has to be added in as well.
Just as an example, in the chain I posted above, there's 3 redraws. At .63 seconds each, you have to add 1.89 seconds, which drops even that chain from Base DPS of Claws chain: 22.199 (*9 = 199.791) to 180.315 and the big total from 97149 to 87633.09 which has it only beating single stacked rage SS. That's not good. |
I still say equally "good" builds anything /fire can be awesome. Play what you want to play.
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Yes. It didn't once upon a time because the redraw time was baked into all the attacks. BAB and Castle worked together on fixing this. It sped up weapon users and increased our overall DPS but it also made redraw into a real penalty. It also led to claws getting its own damage tweak cuz it was just too damn good without it.|
Originally Posted by ultrawatt
So redraw does actually slow things down?
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Originally Posted by MajorTractor
Haha! After all this Billz math says exactly the oposite of what he was trying to prove.
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But I'll call it a done deal once I get all the corrected info in there.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Try adding red insps on top of that.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
dangit.... see what 7 months off does to a man's brain? Yes, redraw time has to be added in as well.
Just as an example, in the chain I posted above, there's 3 redraws. At .63 seconds each, you have to add 1.89 seconds, which drops even that chain from Base DPS of Claws chain: 22.199 (*9 = 199.791) to 180.315 and the big total from 97149 to 87633.09 which has it only beating single stacked rage SS. That's not good. |
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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Yea, if you're gonna stay at the damage cap via red insps (some people saying it's better not to use rage at all), then the one with the highest base dps will win, which looks to still be claws, even with redraw.
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
Try adding red insps on top of that.
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The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
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Heh heh, sorry to mess up your calculations. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Yes. It didn't once upon a time because the redraw time was baked into all the attacks. BAB and Castle worked together on fixing this. It sped up weapon users and increased our overall DPS but it also made redraw into a real penalty. It also led to claws getting its own damage tweak cuz it was just too damn good without it.
This is what happens when you let facts override beliefs. It's a good thing! But I'll call it a done deal once I get all the corrected info in there. |
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I see, I read that awhile a go but couldnt remember who said it (could have been the king of wrong). So i wasn't sure...pretty sure i can trust YOU with that info though. Glad i finally know. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Yes. It didn't once upon a time because the redraw time was baked into all the attacks. BAB and Castle worked together on fixing this. It sped up weapon users and increased our overall DPS but it also made redraw into a real penalty. It also led to claws getting its own damage tweak cuz it was just too damn good without it.
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Originally Posted by Microcosm
Yea, if you're gonna stay at the damage cap via red insps (some people saying it's better not to use rage at all), then the one with the highest base dps will win, which looks to still be claws, even with redraw.
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"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
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Well, since follow up is already part of the higher-base-dps chain he's got there, he won't have to keep up as much +dmg from insps. On my SS, I get enough reds to drop solo or with up to two teammates that I can keep myself capped for a whole farm easily. More teammates than that and the insps don't drop fast enough.
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Originally Posted by ultrawatt
I find it quite hard to actually stay at the dmg cap 100% of the time even with stacked rage. Esepcially if you team and they dont feed you reds as veng only makes up about about 1 small red while you loose a ton of insps. But it is possible claws could pull ahead at higher levels of +dmg.
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The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
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Unless you're Spines, it always has before, and Brutes don't have Spines.|
Originally Posted by ultrawatt
So redraw does actually slow things down?
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<_<
That just sounds bad when I read it.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I'm kinda stuck. Mids seems to have the updated values on Burn but neither in game description nor Mids has any info on the new fiery embrace. Anybody got those numbers?
Be well, people of CoH.
If I'm remembering correctly, it's 45% additional damage from FE. Not sure if there are any applicable corner cases or exceptions that would apply to your comparison.
Murphys Military Law
#23. Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.
#46. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.
#54. Killing for peace is like screwing for virginity.
I thought the new version added fire DoT to all attacks...sorta like the incarnate reactive.
Be well, people of CoH.
Not always a DoT, according to mids at least. Spin gets 35.5 bonus damage in mids, which makes me confident as 35.5/78.8=.45050.
Though, like I said i'm not sure if burn or fireball or any of those powers get extra damage on top of that for being fire base.
Murphys Military Law
#23. Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.
#46. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.
#54. Killing for peace is like screwing for virginity.
The new FE adds extra fire damage to every attack, which supposedly equates to about 45%.
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It really depends on what map and if you're fighting bosses or not. On the Fuzzy Kittens map I can pretty much stay damage capped or close to it when I'm not fighting bosses.|
Originally Posted by ultrawatt
I find it quite hard to actually stay at the dmg cap 100% of the time even with stacked rage. Esepcially if you team and they dont feed you reds as veng only makes up about about 1 small red while you loose a ton of insps. But it is possible claws could pull ahead at higher levels of +dmg.
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If I'm PL'ing or something, I have no choice but to fight bosses so I can't stay capped the entire time. This is when I use Rage, when I'm solo, I don't.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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Pretty sure its just a straight proc like effect that does damage equivalent to 45% of the damage of the attack you are using.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I thought the new version added fire DoT to all attacks...sorta like the incarnate reactive.
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So if Foot Stomp hits for 200 points of damage you also get a proc of 90 points of fire damage on top of that.
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And like a Proc, it allows you to go over the damage cap, if I remember correctly.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Pretty sure its just a straight proc like effect that does damage equivalent to 45% of the damage of the attack you are using.
So if Foot Stomp hits for 200 points of damage you also get a proc of 90 points of fire damage on top of that. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Most folks aren't even dealing with real time. If the test is only the 2 minutes it takes to hit 750 tickets, hit the glowy and exit the mission, then SS with double stacked rage probably does win. With single stacked rage, the player is clicking the glowy during the crash. With double stacked, he's either only double stacked for the second half of the two minutes or he's it rage outside the mission, doublestacked in the mission and has to deal with a crash at the 1 minute mark.
Does that sound correct? Let's go with 300% total recharge. Really cranked to the walls IO/Purple builds.
SS uses footstomp, electric fences and ball lightning.
Claws will use followup, spin, electric fences, ball lightning.
First, we'll ignore insp usage. Then we'll do damage cap of +750%.
All aoes will hit 9 enemies to take into account 5% miss rate.
Attacks will assume 95% damage enhancement and 150% from fury.
The following isn't perfect. If you see a glaring error, tell me and I'll fix it.
Base DPS of SS chain: 18.655 (*9 = 167.895)
Base DPS of Claws chain: 22.199 (*9 = 199.791)
SS enhanced with single rage = 167.895 * (1+.8+.95+1.5) = 713.554
Claws double stacked FU = 199.895 * (1+.6+.95+1.5) = 809.575
SS double rage = 167.895 * (1+1.6+.95+1.5) = 847.87
Total for two minutes: Total*120 seconds
SS single rage, no crash = 85626.48 total damage output
Claws = 97149 total damage output
SS single rage minute 1, double rage minute 2, no crash = 42813.24+50872.2 = 93685.44
SS double rage, single crash = 847.87 * 110 = 93265.7
Claws should win.
EDIT: Oh *I* see a glaring error! Forgot burn and blazing aura.... doh. I'll come back to this tonight.
EDIT2: No, really... how the hell did I leave off burn? It changes everything, gets rid of pauses.... geeez.
Be well, people of CoH.