Not to thread jack, but maybe this can help in some way.
Using this post as a guide line:
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If you going about it that way Billz why not make your own farm capped at level 3? That way you have your powers through level 8 and baddies with the lowest possible HP's to have to deal with. It's still only 6 runs to 9000 tickets and leveling up you still get the same xp per kill no matter what xp your exed down to. Since Brutes get their full damage cap very early you can still go into the mission insp capped for damage at +675% and not have to worry about touching follow up. Just spin, spin and more spin. |
I've gone ahead and made an AE map built exactly for this purpose. It's pretty much a clone of the popular one by Fuzzy Kittens. It's designed for Brutes that get early AoEs and the mobs are pretty much all fire damage. It's set for level 1-3, so you can have your powers all the way up to level 8.
Edit: Solved problems.
ID: 503858
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Actually i really do think saying you surpass the dmg cap is accurate. Without FE your example attack is dmg capped at 750 but with FE its now capped at 1088. melee and Spines/fire DoT is already part of the attack in the first place. FE is something thats is now added and increases your dmg even if you are are the dmg cap, i.e. having you surpassing it.
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Originally Posted by Sarrate
The damage cap caps +damage enhancement, not damage dealt. FE is (enhanceable) base damage built into all Brute/Scrapper/Tanker attacks (similar to how Gauntlet is baked into all Tanker powers) that is only applied when FE is [edit: active].
In other words, a power would be defined as: 100 damage 45 damage (if FE) Which means with SOs: 195 damage ~88 damage (if FE) When damage capped: 750 damage ~338 damage (if FE) It obeys the damage cap, it's just extra base damage. After all, people don't say that Fire Melee / Spines dots avoid the damage cap. Same thing with FE damage. |
"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
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That is because they do not. The total value of all the ticks will always be under the dmg cap for any given attack. If you're scrapper is at 400% dmg, the total value of the inital dmg +ticks of DoT will be equal to the capped dmg value for that attack.|
Originally Posted by Sarrate
After all, people don't say that Fire Melee / Spines dots avoid the damage cap. Same thing with FE damage.
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FE, Procs, or Reactive are the only way to add more dmg after hitting that value.
Technicaly FE itself obeys the cap as well, but it still adds dmg to your attack, even if you were previously sitting at the cap.
Being at the cap, for example, and popping another red insp (Soul Drain, another minion in AAO, another tick of PS, another follow up, BU, etc) will do nothing to increase your dmg. Being at the cap and popping FE will add dmg to your attacks, which is why people consider it a way to go beyond the dmg cap.
Here's what I have learned: Redraw kills. And followup shouldn't be bothered with while farming.
KO Blow is in there because even at 300% recharge, there's a large pause without it. Might as well beat up a boss instead of doing nothing, right?
Notice that lack of followup for claws? The more I used it, the more redraw caused issues. So I replaced it with Eviscerate.
Without any damage buffs, claws wins.
At the damage cap, claws wins.
For a standard run where you're eating some insps but not a lot and SS has either single stacked fury, single for 1 minute, double for the 2nd, or even double stacked through the whole thing with a crash in the middle, SS should win.
Let's find out.
Blazing aura is going to add 4.56 DPS for 120 seconds that goes to 550.8 damage.
As pointed out by others, and tested by me, Fiery Embrace adds 45% of an attack's total damage in fire damage to that that attack. Damage cap be damned. The numbers are stating that FE has a base recharge of 3 minutes and 300% recharge drops it to 45 seconds. It lasts 20 seconds. At best, you'll get two rounds with it during a 2 minute run. 40 seconds out of 120 seconds for +45% damage. Just take the final amount and multiply it by 1.15 (1/3 of 45) and call it a day.
SS base 2min damage, BA, FE:
(26985.42 + 550.8) * 1.15 = 31667
Claws base 2min damage, BA, FE:
(27440.01 + 550.8) * 1.15 = 32189
Claws. 150% fury, 95% enhancement, BA, FE:
(94668.035 + 1900.26) * 1.15 = 111054
SS, 80% rage, 150% fury, 95% enhancement, BA, FE:
(114688.035 + 2340.9) * 1.15 = 134583
SS, 80% rage minute 1, 160% rage minute 2, 150% fury, 95% enhancement BA, FE:
(125482.203 + 2561.22) * 1.15 = 147250
SS, double rage, single crash, 150% fury, 95% enhancement, BA, FE:
(124920.00675 + 2549.745) * 1.15 = 146590
SS w/ BA and FE Damage Cap:
269167
Claws w/ BA and FE Damage Cap:
273610
End outcome? Claws wins at the cap. For most everywhere in between, SS wins.
Be well, people of CoH.
Oh well. At least claws had a fighting chance. Your findings with the redraw issues and follow up matches my experience as well. Now... what happens when you include incarnate abilities. Like say musculature t4?
P.s. I used my AE arc to get to level 22 in about an hour of play (not including time spent running around doing other stuff). Not bad for a level 3 brute using level 8 powers. Credit to joebartender for coming up with the idea. Definitely highlights one of claws/FA strengths.
Uh, Bill thats not a very good attack chain for SS, I tend you use ball>FS>fences>Burn with insp/fe/etc filling any gap, which i generally dont run into myself. And dont forget the freakishly awesome FF+rech proc that SS can get.
EDIT: something more like ball>FS>fences>burn>FS>fence, i think god i dont know haha.
"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
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The cast time of KO Blow covers the gap as mentioned. Do whatever with the pauses, it doesn't really change much. And the order doesn't matter at all over time.
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Originally Posted by ultrawatt
Uh, Bill thats not a very good attack chain for SS, I tend you use ball>FS>fences>Burn with insp/fe/etc filling any gap, which i generally dont run into myself. And dont forget the freakishly awesome FF+rech proc that SS can get.
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Be well, people of CoH.
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Im just saying i dont have a gap that can fit KoB.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
The cast time of KO Blow covers the gap as mentioned. Do whatever with the pauses, it doesn't really change much. And the order doesn't matter at all over time.
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"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
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Interesting because I was wondering how useful it is with Fury and popping reds so much if it was really adding value. I still did three runs on my level 12 and ended up at 18.5. I did one at x3, x5, and then x8. Next goal is to get to level 22, upgrade enhancements, and start upping the diff level wise.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
And followup shouldn't be bothered with while farming.
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This is at 50 and if you can get enough reds to stay cranked. Totally different ride than what you do while leveling up in there.
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Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
Interesting because I was wondering how useful it is with Fury and popping reds so much if it was really adding value. I still did three runs on my level 12 and ended up at 18.5. I did one at x3, x5, and then x8. Next goal is to get to level 22, upgrade enhancements, and start upping the diff level wise.
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Be well, people of CoH.
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I think I must be missing something. Why would using the inspirations before you enter the map help? Wouldn't you lose active time through loading and running up to the first spawn?
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Originally Posted by Pampl
One thing to notice is that there's an insp vendor right there in AE. I felt really dumb once I had that pointed out to me. There's no reason not to have 4 purples and a whole lot of reds active when you enter the map.
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"If this is to be our end, then I would have them make such an end, as to be worthy of remembrance."
In-game at @AYB
Check it out: http://youtu.be/gAJlQ6o8p9g
I must be doing something wrong, I only have time to click inspirations then hit something like FU-spin-burn but mostly I am just clicking inspirations even with macro I spend the majority of my time eating skittles, I notice a lot of emphasis on a good attack chain but do you guys really get to spam an attack chain more than once because I certainly can't not with a mouthful of skittles. I have to be doing it wrong, also I am glad that we don't get a sugar crash from the skittles that would suck.
I'm doing it wrong as well. Still haven't set up the binds. Hell, my current build can't spam that chain. I doubt most farming builds can. 300% recharge ain't easy. My claws/sr only has 317% in followup and that was a nightmare to get.
Be well, people of CoH.
Its handy when you are trying to lvl yourself in AE to eat some inspirations before going in. Generally what I do, depending on my inspiration space, is eat four purples, and four reds. I then immediatly buy 8 purples for example. That gives soft capped defense for three durations worth at which time, I start combining, mostly to make purples early on.
This lets you take on high mob counts, as a low player. Combine it with some AOE or damage aura, and you can quickly level yourself to the low 20's.
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Sometimes my attack chain is clicking on inspirs. No amount of DPS on paper calculations can give the equivalent to actual game play. You just have to figure out what's "close enough," or the so called ideal situation.|
Originally Posted by Prophetsrage
I must be doing something wrong, I only have time to click inspirations then hit something like FU-spin-burn but mostly I am just clicking inspirations even with macro I spend the majority of my time eating skittles, I notice a lot of emphasis on a good attack chain but do you guys really get to spam an attack chain more than once because I certainly can't not with a mouthful of skittles. I have to be doing it wrong, also I am glad that we don't get a sugar crash from the skittles that would suck.
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Originally Posted by AllYourBase
I think I must be missing something. Why would using the inspirations before you enter the map help? Wouldn't you lose active time through loading and running up to the first spawn?
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I'm doing it wrong as well. Still haven't set up the binds. Hell, my current build can't spam that chain. I doubt most farming builds can. 300% recharge ain't easy. My claws/sr only has 317% in followup and that was a nightmare to get.
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The answer to that is pretty straight forward. As recharge levels go down, the set with more usable AoEs pulls ahead.
| It might be interesting to see what some of the numbers are for the lower recharges. |
Be well, people of CoH.
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That makes sense. I've always used a personal ambush farm on I think it's Tech Abandoned 1. There's a double door right at the entrance, so no spawns waiting to gank you at the front door. I don't think I have ever been in the cyborgs farm.|
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
I have been running the cyborg version of the farm and I have opened the first door and instantly met a x8 spawn. Eating purples before that helped me not play catch up. I might as well eat some before going in to free up room since they drop so often.
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Do inspirations run down during the loading screen, or do they sort of "pause" until you have control again?
Edit: After re-reading your post, I realized you said "after opening the first door" not "after first zoning in." I know what you mean, now, and have seen that as well.
"If this is to be our end, then I would have them make such an end, as to be worthy of remembrance."
In-game at @AYB
Check it out: http://youtu.be/gAJlQ6o8p9g
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It didn't open up for me. Did you take it down, or something?
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Originally Posted by Neogumbercules
If anyone is interested in trying it, here's the number: 503581
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Sorry. New number. I'll update the original post. Alternately, you can post your experiences here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=250051|
Originally Posted by ThatGuyThere
It didn't open up for me. Did you take it down, or something?
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New number: 503858
How viable are claws/fa for regular game play? I made one after seeing this thread just to test out the AE farm thing. It's only to level 10 but I can see how this would be great for farming, but I don't farm. I have a group of friends that I play with on the weekends. Can this toon hang with my friends db/wp brute or even my fire/sd scrapper? I haven't played a /fa toon since my ss/fa tank years ago and now he isn't so hot but he also is in basic IOs and old school Fitness pool....
Just curious. Thanks and sorry for derail.
My opinion of FA hasn't changed a bit. Unless you've always got some buffer slamming you with DR and Def shields, FA's mitigation is pathetic outside of burn farms.
Be well, people of CoH.
I don't have an IOed out one yet, but FA has always been rather squishy to me based on an SO build. I know it's an offensive machine, but I have yet to see an armor that struggles more for keeping their health bar high. Fire is going to benefit greatly from IOs and going Incarnate. If you aren't willing to invest in it, roll something else. I also think one of the aspects that makes SS work better than Claws is the mitigation FS brings as where only Shockwave brings AoE mitigation for Claws, but you don't want KB in a farm build. If I wanted a sturdy Claws brute, I would go Claws/sr, Claws/dark, and Claws/elec would be a good alternative.
I did another run on mine and I'm still making 2+ levels per run while at +2x8 with bosses. I got up to 27. I'll do another run later on so I can get Burn and put a couple slots in it.
I think you have to take /FA in two mindsets the cheap build and the all out non purple but expensive build. SOs with patched in IOs will cry to 0x/+8 malts, longbow, carnies, etc solo against bosses. Teams you should be fine. Solo with expensive build you can take the above but you'll pulling around corners instead of the open area "I'm going to make you pay" 2 ring mistresses with 3 master illusionists plus assorted minions. It can be done but you'll be eating all your inspirations. Oh and this is without incarnates, including them does no justice to the powerset besides bloating it.
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Well, yeah. But it does more damage now like it's supposed to.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
My opinion of FA hasn't changed a bit. Unless you've always got some buffer slamming you with DR and Def shields, FA's mitigation is pathetic outside of burn farms.
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I still need to make that Fire/Fire/Fire scrapper that uses Rise of the Phoenix as part of his attack chain. Hell, maybe it would be better as a brute... not really sure.
Where to now?
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The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
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don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
In other words, a power would be defined as:
100 damage
45 damage (if FE)
Which means with SOs:
195 damage
~88 damage (if FE)
When damage capped:
750 damage
~338 damage (if FE)
It obeys the damage cap, it's just extra base damage. After all, people don't say that Fire Melee / Spines dots avoid the damage cap. Same thing with FE damage.