So now CoH is a "raiding" game.
By
Acroyear2,
Posted on: 2011-05-05 08:43 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
There's a reason that GG is the ONLY forum user I have on ignore.
|
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
Soloing is not the default option of any OTHER MMO - Fixed it for you.
CoX frm the beginning was designed with solo options for almost everything and Tier one Alpha Incarnate was as well. You ignore that in your bashing of others in the forums. |
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
Vast difference in - mindset.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Pretty much this.
Is it reasonable to expect the things you want to be given to you the instant you want them? Not at all. I'm equating the complaining here to the person who goes to a gourmet restaurant and gets outraged that their meal wasn't brought to the table within 5 minutes of ordering it. Food takes time to cook, especially good food. Games take time to code, especially good games. I can guarantee that if they rushed some solo/small group content out to appease the people who want it RIGHT NOW, it will be horrible, badly written, and buggy. Be patient and give the devs a chance to actually do a good job on the stuff you want, instead of demanding they bang out some crappy, forgettable missions because you can't wait. Like others have said, it has only been 2 freaking months. Don't you think that's a little soon to be saying "Oh, we don't have it yet, so we clearly never WILL have it"? |
Devs saying we hear you and we will look into it - is vastly different from Devs saying we know some of you love to solo and we have it planned and it will take time to implement.
The very fact they had to wait for feedback for a solo path to be looked at astounds me.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by LISAR
More like 30 minutes of awesome super powered fun.
|
C'mon, Lisar, if the game were fun to play, people would just play and not worry about the virtual rewards they get.
This game is work, you hear, work!
(*deep breath*)
The correct way to play this game, as anyone sane will tell you, is to grit your teeth and play the Trials that you don't like to get powers you don't need to play the parts of the game that you do like that we already have that you don't play because they don't give you the powers required for the new Trials that you don't play (*gasp*) because you don't like them!
Simple, really.
(Warning - the above post may contain sarcasm.)
"Strength of numbers is the delight of the timid. The valiant in spirit glory in fighting alone."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Still CoHzy after all these years...
Quote:
And when in the 7 year history of this game have they ever said "X feature is coming" before they had it just about ready to go on to test? Them not phrasing something in absolute terms is nothing new.|
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
Vast difference in - mindset.
Devs saying we hear you and we will look into it - is vastly different from Devs saying we know some of you love to solo and we have it planned and it will take time to implement. The very fact they had to wait for feedback for a solo path to be looked at astounds me. |
Also, the fact that you think they didn't have something in the works before the "I wanna solo to Incarnate!!!" posts started is even more astounding. The devs don't work as a monolith, with every department solely focused on the same thing at the same time. As they've re-iterated recently, (actually, revealed..before it was thought to just be end-game team, and rest of the game team) they're working in sub-divisions, even within the same department, and have been for the better part of a year.
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
Quote:
The only solo option part of CoH that was designed from the beginning would be standard missions. Did I overlook another aspect of designed soloable content?
|
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
Soloing is not the default option of any OTHER MMO - Fixed it for you.
CoX frm the beginning was designed with solo options for almost everything and Tier one Alpha Incarnate was as well. You ignore that in your bashing of others in the forums. |
Paragonian Knights
Justice Company
Quote:
MMOs typically have bigger and more immersive worlds to play in and the ability to go nearly anywhere you want instead of playing on a rail. I don't mind teaming normally but the grind of the Incarnate missions is not my idea of fun.
|
Originally Posted by Vice_Virtuoso
I can't help but wonder why people play an MMO if they insist on soloing the majority of the time. There are thousands of better single-player experiences out there, which don't have a monthly fee attached.
Do all you adamant soloers just play fighting games for the arcade mode, too? |
Quote:
Because I have never found a single-player game that captures the essence of being in a comic book as well as this game. If someone knows of one, please point me to it. In the meantime, I will continue to solo my way through this one.
|
Originally Posted by Vice_Virtuoso
I can't help but wonder why people play an MMO if they insist on soloing the majority of the time. There are thousands of better single-player experiences out there, which don't have a monthly fee attached.
Do all you adamant soloers just play fighting games for the arcade mode, too? |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
English does not borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, hits them over the head, and rifles through their pockets for loose grammar.
|
Quote:
Better is subjective. I also play single player games.|
Originally Posted by Vice_Virtuoso
I can't help but wonder why people play an MMO if they insist on soloing the majority of the time. There are thousands of better single-player experiences out there, which don't have a monthly fee attached.
Do all you adamant soloers just play fighting games for the arcade mode, too? |
MMO means that you CAN team with other humans. It does not mean that you must.
Some people play this game for the aesthetic value. Some play for the combat system. Some soloists are quite active in the community both here on the forum and in global channels.
Do all of you adamant teamers sit on your thumbs all day until someone else comes along to give your existence meaning?
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
So you find it necessary to belittle people that play differently from you?|
Originally Posted by Vice_Virtuoso
I can't help but wonder why people play an MMO if they insist on soloing the majority of the time. There are thousands of better single-player experiences out there, which don't have a monthly fee attached.
Do all you adamant soloers just play fighting games for the arcade mode, too? |
I team, I solo and I have fun. I do not find the idea of having to run the same trials 30 times to advance is as attractive as playing exactly how I have fun now. If I want to solo an Ouroboros Positron for 40 merits - I do it. I may get some shards if on a 50. If I want to join or start an ITF - I do it and get some shards if on a 50.
I may run some Hero tips - and get some shards if on a 50. I may join that lower level team lfm - and get some shards if on a 50. However if I decide to try and progress after the Alpha - I have to do the trials or pay a PENALTY for playing regularly - If I havd saved 100 shards I got by playing Dev approved "content" - I pay a penalty?
Get rid of shards and make all drops threads - most of the problem is then solved, or make them directly convertable as many as you like with no penalty. Then I would not be farming the official farm content would I?
For those who say - everything is a farm - no I am not locked in to game progression by doing the same 3 missions. I can street hunt, mission arcs, tips, TF's, Raids, special events, Ex down, badge hunt, Guardian angel sewer teams and have fun with 7 years of content or be forced to play 2 months worth of content using your logic that the devs need more time.
No THEY painted themselves into the corner by not allowing progression using all of the previous content. You know, the content I enjoy?
Quote:
You can solo nearly everything in this game. Monsters, Tips, Mission arcs, street hunt, badge (except for a few team badges). You can even dare to get folks who are logging out to join a team and solo TF's - or solo them in Ouroboros.|
Originally Posted by Grae Knight
The only solo option part of CoH that was designed from the beginning would be standard missions. Did I overlook another aspect of designed soloable content?
|
I don't always solo - but for most things this game has made it possible. You don't agree that it should be?
Quote:
So, um... just play the stuff you enjoy?|
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
So you find it necessary to belittle people that play differently from you?
I team, I solo and I have fun. I do not find the idea of having to run the same trials 30 times to advance is as attractive as playing exactly how I have fun now. If I want to solo an Ouroboros Positron for 40 merits - I do it. I may get some shards if on a 50. If I want to join or start an ITF - I do it and get some shards if on a 50. I may run some Hero tips - and get some shards if on a 50. I may join that lower level team lfm - and get some shards if on a 50. However if I decide to try and progress after the Alpha - I have to do the trials or pay a PENALTY for playing regularly - If I havd saved 100 shards I got by playing Dev approved "content" - I pay a penalty? Get rid of shards and make all drops threads - most of the problem is then solved, or make them directly convertable as many as you like with no penalty. Then I would not be farming the official farm content would I? For those who say - everything is a farm - no I am not locked in to game progression by doing the same 3 missions. I can street hunt, mission arcs, tips, TF's, Raids, special events, Ex down, badge hunt, Guardian angel sewer teams and have fun with 7 years of content or be forced to play 2 months worth of content using your logic that the devs need more time. No THEY painted themselves into the corner by not allowing progression using all of the previous content. You know, the content I enjoy? |
Please correct me if I am wrong, but you enjoy playing the non-Incarnate content without Incarnate powers, yes?
Why change your playstyle?
I'm asking quite seriously - what are you progressing your character <i>towards</i> in doing these Trials?
"Strength of numbers is the delight of the timid. The valiant in spirit glory in fighting alone."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Still CoHzy after all these years...
Quote:
He's attempting to ignore how much of the game was designed with soloing in mind.|
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
You can solo nearly everything in this game. Monsters, Tips, Mission arcs, street hunt, badge (except for a few team badges). You can even dare to get folks who are logging out to join a team and solo TF's - or solo them in Ouroboros.
I don't always solo - but for most things this game has made it possible. You don't agree that it should be? |
However, the workaround that allows one to get enough players to start a TF/SF, dump all but one, have that one log off and "solo" a said TF/SF isn't by design. It's a side effect.
There should be content in this game that is impossible to solo. There's precedent for such events in comicdom. There should not be, however, arbitrary gates in the way of me attempting to do it anyway.
There is a philosophy held by the devs that they should stop players from making stupid choices.
It's why kheldians are locked out of the flight and teleport pools. It's why there are arbitrary minimum team size requirements on trials, task forces and strike forces. It's why they dumped freeform power selection before the game went live and went with archetypes instead.
I do not agree with that philosophy.
Be well, people of CoH.
Without trying to sound rude saying this, this is all I have to say about the raiding.
For the past 7 years this game has been designed around teams and solo play. Now we get raiding for a fairly large populous of the community and people gripe about it. Well you're not forced to run the raid content.
You too can participate in the Incarnate system without entering any raid content. It's just going to take a little longer. You can still earn your Incarnate shards by running the content that has been made for the past 7 years, then convert it to whatever you need. It'll just take you a little longer to get what other people get in a few days of raiding.
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
[URL="http://www.vidiotmaps.com/"]Vidiotmaps.com[/URL] & [URL="http://www.badge-hunter.com/"]Badge-Hunter.com[/URL]
[URL="http://net-warrior.mybrute.com/"][B][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkorange]Challenge My Brute[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/URL]
Quote:
I once attempted to solo the ITF with my claws/sr scrapper. I got all the way to the last battle and found myself ripped apart by the auto-hit fluffy.|
Originally Posted by Tetsuko_NA
So, um... just play the stuff you enjoy?
Please correct me if I am wrong, but you enjoy playing the non-Incarnate content without Incarnate powers, yes? Why change your playstyle? I'm asking quite seriously - what are you progressing your character <i>towards</i> in doing these Trials? |
Now that I have a huge self heal, a tighter attack chain and massive fire DoT spewing out of those attacks, thanks to incarnate abilities, I'm betting that I can take that pesky fluffy out before it can kill me.
That's one example of many I can come up with.
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
A "little" longer? If you're speaking on cosmic timetables, sure.|
Originally Posted by Beef_Cake
Without trying to sound rude saying this, this is all I have to say about the raiding.
For the past 7 years this game has been designed around teams and solo play. Now we get raiding for a fairly large populous of the community and people gripe about it. Well you're not forced to run the raid content. You too can participate in the Incarnate system without entering any raid content. It's just going to take a little longer. You can still earn your Incarnate shards by running the content that has been made for the past 7 years, then convert it to whatever you need. It'll just take you a little longer to get what other people get in a few days of raiding. |
I am NOT griping about the addition of raid content, BC. I know how many people have been asking for it and for how long they've wanted it. I'm HAPPY for them, for you, all of you.
I'm griping about the idiotic conversion rates. It took me less than two weeks to get T4*2 and T3*3 by doing trials. Compared to the year+ that it would take going the shard route is complete BS. It's not a case of a little longer.
I'm griping about the "here's a metric ton of ways for you to progress for the last seven years" 180 degree turn to "you want incarnate stuff, fine, here's three trials for you to farm, that's all you get, don't like raids, tough #$*&^."
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
I will agree the conversion rates are pretty bad. But taking that into consideration, my Fire / Psi dom has never touhed a trial and yet she is already unlocked all her slots and have abilities slotted in them.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
A "little" longer? If you're speaking on cosmic timetables, sure.
I am NOT griping about the addition of raid content, BC. I know how many people have been asking for it and for how long they've wanted it. I'm HAPPY for them, for you, all of you. I'm griping about the idiotic conversion rates. It took me less than two weeks to get T4*2 and T3*3 by doing trials. Compared to the year+ that it would take going the shard route is complete BS. It's not a case of a little longer. I'm griping about the "here's a metric ton of ways for you to progress for the last seven years" 180 degree turn to "you want incarnate stuff, fine, here's three trials for you to farm, that's all you get, don't like raids, tough #$*&^." |
I have the following:
Pyronic @tier 3
Interface @tier 2
Destiny @tier 3
Lore - not slotted yet, I was waiting for the new pets we got yesterday
I use my dom for farming and playing normal content a lot. So I took my shards and converted them to threads, and again I wasn't happy with the conversions but I still did them and it worked out fine for me. So it can be done, regardless of how much we dislike the conversions. But the length of time it took me was a little longer than my others that did do the raid content, but not astronomically longer.
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
[URL="http://www.vidiotmaps.com/"]Vidiotmaps.com[/URL] & [URL="http://www.badge-hunter.com/"]Badge-Hunter.com[/URL]
[URL="http://net-warrior.mybrute.com/"][B][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkorange]Challenge My Brute[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/URL]
You kind of are forced to do the raid stuff or some kind of farming if you team at all or your once uber level 50 will be gimped compared to others who run the raids daily now, to say nothing of PvP.
billz, here is the thing. are you really, based on your experience here, completely convinced that there will be no solo or small group option to earn them later after actually filling out the trials options a bit more? Is that a common part of the behavior of the developers here? As i see it, right now we are getting trials, which we have not had at all, and a very stitched together solo path that is useless for most players. now, given the realities of how big the team is, and even how long quality content takes to come out even from the largest of the mmo houses out there, does it really strike you that there will never be a other option simply because they dont have one now? I mean, how long did it take for them to allow use to earn shards while exemplared? that was a qol issue the developers listened to, did they not say in the ustream chats that there will likely be a path but its further off? it seems blatantly obvious that a path is coming, but right now there is a mechanic they are adding that is new and they want to fill it out first.
this really just seems like a intensely dramatic reaction by people who have seen this go a few times now. i waited 16 issues for power customization, and still am waiting for some decent martial arts animations, patience really is needed.
Quote:
And how much more time before you're T4ed in all slots using nothing but shards? How much more farming/content will you have to do before you even get one of those slots T4ed?|
Originally Posted by Beef_Cake
I will agree the conversion rates are pretty bad. But taking that into consideration, my Fire / Psi dom has never touhed a trial and yet she is already unlocked all her slots and have abilities slotted in them.
I have the following: Pyronic @tier 3 Interface @tier 2 Destiny @tier 3 Lore - not slotted yet, I was waiting for the new pets we got yesterday I use my dom for farming and playing normal content a lot. So I took my shards and converted them to threads, and again I wasn't happy with the conversions but I still did them and it worked out fine for me. So it can be done, regardless of how much we dislike the conversions. But the length of time it took me was a little longer than my others that did do the raid content, but not astronomically longer. |
When we were first testing shard drop rates in beta, I was getting 8 an hour on my main doing nothing but farming scanner missions. How many shards will it take to get a single T4?
Be well, people of CoH.
To the OP: In a game scheduled to revamp 66% of the level 1-10 experience, and scheduled to add a new 20-25 zone, I cannot accept your premise that leveling and playing characters at any level you wish has been abandoned.
It's not wrong for you to have an opinion. It is however inaccurate in the extreme to narrowly define the parameters of that opinion then try to claim it represents an absolute condition.
Sure lots of people are running Trials now. That's because we've been playing for years and for the most part have to shelve most characters we get to 50 because there is not much to do. You should generate some tolerance for a community that is embracing the new shiny thing for a while, because it's normal.
Just like most of the game's systems, you're not obligated to participate if you don't like it. It's not terribly hard to find people who agree with you and do things with them, until the developers get around to expanding the system with some options more to your liking.
Until then, please be more polite to the people who have been asking for things like this and enjoy them.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
Quote:
Sandbox action games (GTA, Just Cause, etc.), or more open-ended RPGs (Fallout, Elder Scrolls) are this, and have the benefit of your player character actually being able to make a significant difference in the game world and its story.|
Originally Posted by Irresponsible
MMOs typically have bigger and more immersive worlds to play in and the ability to go nearly anywhere you want instead of playing on a rail.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ZephyrWind
Because I have never found a single-player game that captures the essence of being in a comic book as well as this game. If someone knows of one, please point me to it. In the meantime, I will continue to solo my way through this one.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Do all of you adamant teamers sit on your thumbs all day until someone else comes along to give your existence meaning?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
So you find it necessary to belittle people that play differently from you?
|
Soloing feels like the quickest way to make this game feel stagnant, and teaming the quickest way to reinvigorate it. Say you're playing a Defender, and you end up on a balanced team of 8. You're going to be blasting a lot more than buffing, debuffing, or healing. And then say that team disbands, and the next team you end up on happens to be a six-man team of you, a brute, and four blasters. Your role is going to be significantly different on that team -- you'll barely have time to be using your secondary to keep the rest of your team alive. That dynamic of different teams simply vanishes when solo -- every mission you solo feels the same.
I look at your (and everyone else's, not particularly singling you out here) join date, and then I imagine spending that many years playing this game mostly solo, even accounting for taking breaks for a few months every once in a while. It would drive me absolutely mad -- literally throw-him-in-a-padded-room insane -- out of the boredom and tedium.
Quote:
| I team, I solo and I have fun. |
Quote:
| No THEY painted themselves into the corner by not allowing progression using all of the previous content. You know, the content I enjoy? |
The previous content was always balanced around the lack of Incarnate abilities, and still is. Every bit of content besides the three trials can still be completed -- usually quite easily, without so much as a common Alpha slot. Furthermore, it isn't as if there is a complete absence of non-Incarnate content coming in the future. It's just that it was the primary focus of I20, which laid the groundwork for future trials to come with later updates alongside regular content.
For those who do not like running the trials, there is still a ton of other things to do, even at level 50 with no Incarnate abilities, until new non-Incarnate stuff comes by, which is confirmed to be as soon as the next issue.
Quote:
I can T4 2 of my slots now if I wanted, but I don't need it, so I stopped at T3 on both of those powers. But when I decide which Lore Pets I want, I will T4 them right off the bat, I will just do side conversions to get the Rares and Very Rares I need. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
And how much more time before you're T4ed in all slots using nothing but shards? How much more farming/content will you have to do before you even get one of those slots T4ed?
When we were first testing shard drop rates in beta, I was getting 8 an hour on my main doing nothing but farming scanner missions. How many shards will it take to get a single T4? |
T4 isn't always better and they normally are, but I see no need to go to T4 unless it will truly benefit me. And to be honest, they wont. Which is why I stopped at T3.
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
[URL="http://www.vidiotmaps.com/"]Vidiotmaps.com[/URL] & [URL="http://www.badge-hunter.com/"]Badge-Hunter.com[/URL]
[URL="http://net-warrior.mybrute.com/"][B][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkorange]Challenge My Brute[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/URL]
Quote:
Content does take time to produce. Fixing bugs or bad design decisions takes less time.|
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
billz, here is the thing. are you really, based on your experience here, completely convinced that there will be no solo or small group option to earn them later after actually filling out the trials options a bit more? Is that a common part of the behavior of the developers here? As i see it, right now we are getting trials, which we have not had at all, and a very stitched together solo path that is useless for most players. now, given the realities of how big the team is, and even how long quality content takes to come out even from the largest of the mmo houses out there, does it really strike you that there will never be a other option simply because they dont have one now? I mean, how long did it take for them to allow use to earn shards while exemplared? that was a qol issue the developers listened to, did they not say in the ustream chats that there will likely be a path but its further off? it seems blatantly obvious that a path is coming, but right now there is a mechanic they are adding that is new and they want to fill it out first.
this really just seems like a intensely dramatic reaction by people who have seen this go a few times now. i waited 16 issues for power customization, and still am waiting for some decent martial arts animations, patience really is needed. |
I do believe that one day there will be soloable content that provides incarnate storyline based content and it will probably provide equitable rewards. However, also based on prior history, I don't see that content showing up this year. I'd consider us lucky to see it some time in 2012.
Nuking the entire shard tree and replacing it with threads would take less time than creating that content.
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
And if I played the same character every day, maybe that would happen. But I don't. I rarely play the same character more than a few days in a row. Then I switch to a character at a different level, on a different side, of a different AT, and with different stories to play. That, for me, is a bigger and more invigorating change than just having a few people running around with me. |
Originally Posted by Vice_Virtuoso
Soloing feels like the quickest way to make this game feel stagnant, and teaming the quickest way to reinvigorate it. Say you're playing a Defender, and you end up on a balanced team of 8. You're going to be blasting a lot more than buffing, debuffing, or healing. And then say that team disbands, and the next team you end up on happens to be a six-man team of you, a brute, and four blasters. Your role is going to be significantly different on that team -- you'll barely have time to be using your secondary to keep the rest of your team alive. That dynamic of different teams simply vanishes when solo -- every mission you solo feels the same. |
I find the "take one character and just grind tips/radios/the ITF with as big a team as possible" approach equally incomprehensible and much more conducive to burnout. This is (one of many) reasons I'll never touch the iTrials -- the idea of doing the same tiny handful of missions on the same character, night after night, just to chase shinies is antithetical to my playstyle.
34 heroes,
20 villains, Victory, Justice, Infinity, Virtue, Triumph, Exalted -- some more active than others
I can't help but wonder why people play an MMO if they insist on soloing the majority of the time. There are thousands of better single-player experiences out there, which don't have a monthly fee attached.
Do all you adamant soloers just play fighting games for the arcade mode, too?