So now CoH is a "raiding" game.

I'm not sure I'd use an example involving a substantial rule workaround, but I get your point.

My larger question is: were you forced to do this, or did you choose to do it?

(Yes, I have asked this sort of question on this topic before - I've heard a number of people saying the feel forced to do the Trials, while to me they have walys felt as voluntary as any other part of the game, so I'm just trying to get differing opinions.)

Thanks for the feedback!

The best approach to them is actually to cycle characters after you've run one of each trial on a single character in a day, so that you get an Empyrean Merit for every trial you run. It still doesn't change the fact that you're running the same three trials, and I would agree with anyone who said that there should have been more trials at I20, but it certainly helps alleviate the grinding feeling to an extent, and gives you more overall progress to boot.

Forced to do what? Solo the ITF? No, I was not forced to attempt it. Forced to run trials in order to get my incarnate slots filled? Yes, if I wanted them done in a timely manner.

I'm not sure what kind of farming/content BeefCake was running with his dom. I've little doubt that he's far more efficient at it than I am.

I'd be curious to determine exactly how much real time it would take to get even T3*5 using soloable content as it stands right now with my warshade.

I have one hour -- 90 minutes on a good night -- of playtime each night. Doing all three trials on one character in a day, let alone doing them on multiple characters, is the stuff of fantasy. (Well, not really fantasy, since I don't want to do the trials at all, but you know what I mean.)

As a big naysayer to the current raid system, I do agree that switching out characters is a good way to avoid the feeling of a grind. Unfortunately, from my experience at least, the minimal rewards for a single raid are such that you just replace the negative "grinding" feeling with a negative "didn't really accomplish anything" feeling. Fixing one problem by replacing it with another...really isn't fixing anything.

They'll get used to it - just like all then other changes to the game over the years

Which we did

If you want numbers, there's a 4th Trial coming in I21, and a lot more being added afetr that

The devs datamine a lot - that's one of their main lines of feedback - and the results of that datamining are more Trials.

Any solo path will always be quite a bit slower than the main Trial path - the Incarnate system is designed around Trials, so that's the important part to get right first - a solo option is more of an add-on.

When the raids are the only meaningful way to progress, it's no surprise that people who don't like raids are raiding. If they offered story arcs or even TFs in place of such, would the data mining show such good numbers for raiding, I wonder.

I wish there were a checkbox I could click whenever I logged in that said "I am not playing incarnate content because it sucks." Other than canceling my account, I have no way to tell them that their current drive in producing content is doing absolutely nothing to retain me as a customer. That's the problem with the binary nature of subscription voting. I need a line item veto. "Please use none of my subscription money to produce incarnate content, as it benefits me none at all." Currently, every time I pay, I feel like I am subsidizing someone else's enjoyment by giving money to people who don't care if I'm having fun.

If I could stay VIP and pay less to not get incarnate access, I would.

Bill, if I had to guess, I'd say about about 3-4 weeks running about 3-4 hours a day. Yes, I know people can't always match other people's game play. But that's what it took me. And comparing that to my other characters I did run through the trials, it was a great deal longer as it normally took me about 3-5 days to get fully slotted abilities running trials. But than again, I did run a lot of trials.

I respect that people like raiding. I said as much in my original post. That said, I haven't played enough with the latest conversion rates to see if solo play is a viable way, with those rates, to gain incarnate shards so I will refrain from comments until such time that I have more experience with the just released issue.


As an aside, I completely agree with Billz that the inability to start task forces and even trials with smaller groups is baffling to me. This is one of those weird idiosyncratic things that the devs cling to that provide no benefit to the game.

(emphasis added)

And that's just the difference between my experience and yours in this matter. I have never felt forced because I always felt seeking the rewards in the first place was my call.

Just a perception thing, I suppose.

That being said, of course, more options that appeal to more people is better. Fortunately, this game has a history of taking common MMO conventions and implementing them in better ways than most, so I'm still looking forward to what the Devs will do with the system.

Building the endgame around Trials is beyond ridiculous and silly; it's an insane way to plan a game. Still shocked so many of you have bought into it - the lure of new shinies and 'keeping up with the Joneses' must be too tempting to resist.

Slower is fine
Solo is divine.

I think that 112 (4*4*7) hours to get T3*5 based on the existing conversion rates is highly optimistic for anyone to do solo. Farming ITFs and being sure to get in the WTF... that might work.

BZB still needs 3 T4s. I think he's already good to go with a pair of T3s on a couple of those. I'll see what I can do and how long it takes me to finish him up with nothing but shards.

So is playing the game in the first place. If we can't talk about the requirements and consequences they have placed on the game in terms of people actually playing it, then we may as well remove every post on the board and replace it with the word "Bluhhhhhh" repeated over and over, because we have nothing else to talk about.

Just preface every post everyone ever makes with "If I wish to play the game".

Or maybe quite a few players actually like the Trials?

I'm still doing trials because I enjoy large-team content, not because there's anything left to earn. (It's also why I join at least one Hamidon raid a week.) I'd rather spend my time in a group even if I don't earn anything useful, than do stuff alone even if I can get a decent reward. In fact, before 20.5 it would have been more advantageous for me to spend my time soloing tips than continuing to run trials.

The more the merrier.

Same here. I don't GRIND the trials like I did when i still had stuff to earn (well, actually now I do have stuff to earn, need to get the new lores up and running) but I still run 'em.

And yet only one of these things leads you to the so-called "incarnate levels" of power.

It's like saying no one should have comments about how the game plays at level 50 since they can just sit with enemies at level 40 and never advance "unless they want to."

Why not go back now and make the rest of the game as exhilirating as the Incarnate content. We'll start with making you repeat the mission to unlock the Midnighter Club 15 times instead of once.

PS I am positive someone is going to respond and say "You don't need incarnate level powers anyway." Well, no, you don't. You also don't need APPs or PPPs or a tier 9s. That is not an excuse to the main obstacle to acquiring these things being how boring the path is, due to a combination of extremely grindy content and having to sit around for 15 to 20 minutes between runs.

I think CoH is one of the best 'single-player' games I've ever played. it's certainly the very best single-player superhero game I've ever seen, and as a bonus it comes with the option to utilise truly excellent AI bots and is equipped with loads of cool chatrooms with instant access to other people playing the same game, if i need advice on a level or boss or slotting or, you know, just fancy chewing the fat with the people I've come to view as friends in the 7 years I've been playing.

Steam chat on Fallout New Vegas is rubbish compared, really.

Eco.

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow [The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

aye carumba! Using shard to thread conversion wow that must have been so many shards

Spiderman 2 on the PS2 was a great Spiderman game, but when I tried to roll up a Blaster, I dunno, I couldn't seem to make it work.

To you, maybe. To me, soloing is great fun. Really, it's awesome. I seriously LOVE to solo. I like to chat in the channels while I'm doing so, and if I want to i can park my toon and go make a coffee or check Facebook. I can have CoH open in a wondow all evening, leave my toon in a mission lobby whilst I eat dinenr if i need to or want to. Teaming feels restrictive to me because i am invariably beholden to other people whilst I'm teamed.

To you, maybe. I'm a mild internal RPer, lol, I guess, so each toon definitely feels different to me. I also play AE story arcs a lot, which means I don't have to repeat narrative content as often as ifi was just doing canon content. Also, whenever I'm on a team of 8, whatever the mix of ATs, it usually always just feels like a big mess of powers and effects going off, ie very samey.

And that's why you shouldn't solo, then. Lucky for you that you've got team-focussed iTrials to do to get your incarnate stuff. Yay for you. I am actually happy for you. It'd be nice if you'd feel the same about we 'who prefer to solo' getting our promised boon lol.

Eco.

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow [The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

When I tried playing WoW, I came to the conclusion that the reason why its players liked the hideous repetitive over-and-over-without-end of its raids was that they were cretins.

It looks like NCSoft thinks that catering to the whack-a-mole crowd worked for Blizzard, so it might work for Coh, too.

I think they're right, and it sort of makes me a little sad, but the Trial-lovers pay their subs too, and NCSoft are here to make a buck, and if they make a buck then I can still play, so I have to accept the Raids and hope they keep introducing solo stuff too. I21 is giving us a new zone, someone upthread said they're revamping 2/3 of the 1-10 content (what's that all about?), and more trials can't take that much time and effort etc to make, so I'm hopeful.

Eco.

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow [The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."