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Are there cows out there as well? Or are you just a collector? |
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
You mean we're not all cowboys? There are horses out my yard...
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I was talking about HER first meeting with the Doctor from HER point of view. The Library was her last meeting with the Doctor from her point of view, while his first for her. That is of course assuming he doesn't visit her there, or manages to somehow create a new body to download in.|
Originally Posted by Desmodos
That wasn't there first meeting. The first meeting occurred in the previous generation, (David Tennent Doctor, "In the Library") was there first meeting. It occurred as she said it, he had no idea who she was. ...and she did kind of die.
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Actually I can see a scenario in the future, where after everything happens with River from his point of view, and they have a nice chat
that makes me think of something else,
in the old series, we had the Matrix( introduced long before the movie of the same name came out), which is where all good Time Lords had their minds uploaded to when they died, not unlike what finally happens to River ;-)
So what am I saying?
-The Doctor and the Time Lady we meet in Neil Gaiman's episode have a Daughter
-the Picture of Amy and the baby is her holding herself as a baby
-Later on we get both end and beginning of the story of the girl in the space suit( we saw only the middle part of her story from her point of view), she ends up being the Doctor's daughter somehow
-At some point, she regenerates, loses her memory and is placed with the Pond Family
-At some point in the future she regenerates into River( with maybe some Regenerations in between)
Ok it might not be that twisted, but in that direction, I am sure the girl and baby is most definitely River
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OH, sorry. I see what I did there, lol.
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Originally Posted by Wooden_Replica
I was talking about HER first meeting with the Doctor from HER point of view. The Library was her last meeting with the Doctor from her point of view, while his first for her. That is of course assuming he doesn't visit her there, or manages to somehow create a new body to download in.
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Let's see if this will help us figure some things out. Someone posted it on another forum I frequent.
So River ends up in the Astronaut suit...kills the Doctor?
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Well we are led to believe that this is most probably the case, which is why I think it probably isn't. It's just too expected.
We are told that the first time River meets the Doctor he dies and the first time the Doctor meets River she dies. If it really is the Doctor who died in this episode, it would seem that it is River in the suit and would expain the Doctor telling everyon to stay back, as was explained early in the new series with Rose meeting her infant self about same matter and same space. And would explain her 'killing a good man.'
There is also the fact that the Doctor in the very beginning was 200 years older than the Doctor Amy and Rory left. And why had he been 'running faster than he had ever run. And why did he think 'I'd never get done saving you?' Just which 'you' did he mean? Amy and company? Humanity in general?
So many questions and only so many episodes to give us answers!
Moffat knows that we know that he knows that we know that he knows that putting River in the suit would be the entirely expected twist and therefore the twist that wouldn't happen.
Therefore, that is EXACTLY who is in the suit.
You got Princess Bride in my Doctor Who thread!
Kinda awsome actually....
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OK, a couple of things. |
Originally Posted by Samothrake
We are told that the first time River meets the Doctor he dies and the first time the Doctor meets River she dies. If it really is the Doctor who died in this episode, it would seem that it is River in the suit and would expain the Doctor telling everyon to stay back, as was explained early in the new series with Rose meeting her infant self about same matter and same space. And would explain her 'killing a good man.
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Same matter occupying same space is often miss used concept in regards to time travel. Doctor who has never mis used it that I am aware of. Nothing terrible happened from Rose touching her baby self. That simply drew the attention of the creatures of that episode.
As for River being in the space suit, after further thought, it can't/shouldn't be her. River is serving time for killing "the great man." She remembers killing him. She would remember being in the space suit. Unless of course, Moffat pulls another memory/perception trick out his hat.
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Yes, they very specifically played on that as Rory said he didn't have to imagine what it was like, as he's seen Amy go through it.|
Originally Posted by Wooden_Replica
The description River gives of her first meeting with the Doctor, when she was talking with Rory, didn't it sound awefully like Amy and the Doctor's first meeting?
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Originally Posted by Wooden_Replica
Unanswered questions I'd love to learn the answers to:
Whatever happened to Susan? Whatever happened to the Doctor's Daughter from season 4 Was Romana that Time Lady we saw in End of Time( i'm sorry the bit about that being his previously unmentioned or seen Mommy just doesn't have the same impact) |
Maybe any/some of these will be addressed this season. Myself, I'm ok with not knowing, 'filling in the gaps' sometimes goes too far I feel, I prefer to tread newer ground more often than not.
Yeah, I don't like the assumption in that graphic that river is imprisoned before meeting the doctor.
River does say after firing at the Astronaut in part 1, and not killing/hitting it, "of course not". Now since the Doctor was older, she would have been younger and therefore know that was her in the suit who killed the Doctor.
Memory is still playing a part in this season. Rory does remember, at times, being "I was plastic". It's possible that Amy is still "special".
River is surprised by the Doctor's response to her snogging him. So that's the first sign that her timeline isn't what she remembered it to be.
As for Amy's "Schrodinger's Baby", it may have to do with whether or not they can stop the Doctor's death, which may mean the loss of "this" River Song.
As for the little lost Timelady, I have no idea where that is going.
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That might be significant. Or she might just be lamenting that conventional weapons never seem to work in these situations. Or as the Brigadier once put it, "Just once I'd like to meet an alien species that wasn't immune to bullets."|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
River does say after firing at the Astronaut in part 1, and not killing/hitting it, "of course not".
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On the other hand, that does raise the question of why she'd even bother trying to kill the Astronaut with the six-shooter, instead of the high-tech blaster gun she uses later to mow down the Silents...
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She didn't seem to have her blaster with her at that point. It was the same gun she used to shoot the Stetson off the Doctor's head.|
Originally Posted by JKCarrier
On the other hand, that does raise the question of why she'd even bother trying to kill the Astronaut with the six-shooter, instead of the high-tech blaster gun she uses later to mow down the Silents...
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Of course, the more interesting point is, why was the suit immune to bullets, when one clearly smashed through the helmet in the second episode.
In addition, it's almost all human technology, it may have all sorts of life support and things that make it move, but it's still just a space suit, capable of being damaged like anything else... yet it wasn't when River fired at it.
Something else is going on here.
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I recall River was shooting at the back of the suit. It is reasonable that the back and chest area are more heavily-armored than the helmet faceplate, particularly if the armor was built with 1960's tech.
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Originally Posted by Zikar
Of course, the more interesting point is, why was the suit immune to bullets, when one clearly smashed through the helmet in the second episode.
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In this whole thread, I'm amazed that nobody has yet wondered if/how the gap in the Watergate tapes ties into the Silence.
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I just thought that was a given, honestly.|
Originally Posted by Starjammer
In this whole thread, I'm amazed that nobody has yet wondered if/how the gap in the Watergate tapes ties into the Silence.
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Honestly the older Doctor being Dead, I'll by the same way as he was dead at the end of last seasons cliffhanger
The way it was done and all, it seemed almost like he wanted the Silence( remember there was a silent around when it happened) to see it
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I just assumed everyone heard the Doctor tell Nixon to tape everything said in his office from now on.
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Originally Posted by Starjammer
In this whole thread, I'm amazed that nobody has yet wondered if/how the gap in the Watergate tapes ties into the Silence.
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This prompted a 2nd viewing for me...ok 3rd but what ever. I am suddenly an even bigger fan of Moffat. |
Originally Posted by Zikar
She didn't seem to have her blaster with her at that point. It was the same gun she used to shoot the Stetson off the Doctor's head.
Of course, the more interesting point is, why was the suit immune to bullets, when one clearly smashed through the helmet in the second episode. |
Several temporal oddities I noticed now, that or I'm grasping at straws for the fun of it.
1) From "Impossible Astronaut" to "Day of the Moon" 3 months passed. During this time we know Rory, Amy, and River have been investigating the Silence. Oddly, Amy and Rory are wearing the same clothes. River Song has changed her outfit...
2) River is sporting jeans and a six shooter, but still has her fancy tri-corder we saw her use in "Pandorica Opens" She jumps off a building and dives into the TARDIS swimming pool. Change of clothes and she's now wearing a Time Vortex Manipulator. Now it's plausible she had the TVM under her sleeves prior to this, but it seems rather unlikely she had her blaster the entire time. It's even more unlikely that she found one laying about inside the TARDIS. It does appear to be the same blaster she and in "Pandorica Opens" and "Big Bang."
3) River tells the Doctor they're lives are traveling in reverse. That may be true for her perspective, or she's lying. It's certainly not true from the Doctor's perspective. His encounters with River are not linear.
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While I doubt it is completely true, certain events are backwards according to their perspective. First time River meets the Doctor is about the last time the Doctor sees her. First time Doctor meets River is the last time River sees him. The start of the relationship as far as the Doctor is concerned is about the end as far as River is concerned. The main events are backwards, but the details are completely random.
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Originally Posted by Desmodos
3) River tells the Doctor they're lives are traveling in reverse. That may be true for her perspective, or she's lying. It's certainly not true from the Doctor's perspective. His encounters with River are not linear.
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The description River gives of her first meeting with the Doctor, when she was talking with Rory, didn't it sound awefully like Amy and the Doctor's first meeting?