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Even the Shadowlord was once a White Knight |
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
The biggest problem with many of the arguments about "the bad guys" is simply this: Nobody ever sets out to be evil.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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After all, "The enemy of my enemy is my fall-guy."
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Originally Posted by Liz Bathory
My main would side just long enough to find a way to get her own goals realised. Following the winner is often the easiest way to the top. That also means if it looks likes Cole is losing she fights on the hero side again ofcourse. To her there is only one good side.. her own! She is about power. Profit is for mortal flesh. She long left that desire behind her.
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"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers
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Originally Posted by santorican
i'm okay with that
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qft
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Are you intentionally discounting all the Praetorian zones, or just forget about them?|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It's going to be co-op if it's one zone - and co-op content has a traditional starting level of 35, going by the RWZ and Cimerora - which would tie in with the recent new 20-30 content on Primal Earth.
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Also, isn't the entire game a co-op zone now with side switching?
There is no reason that a new zone would have to be 35+ if it were co-op. Those zones were designed as high end content and RWZ was the Crash site before and was already a high level hazard zone.
Anywho, new zone would be neat, doesn't sound like Paragon city as usual. I do think it'll be on primal earth, or the primal earth dimension with the way they talked about it having importance on a world wide level. But time will tell I suppose.
I'd honestly love to see the moon zone or Atlantis, but I won't hold my breath for those.
Maybe something with more instances with windows? Like the one in the new Villain arc that has you looking out of the high rise in Talos? That'd be nice.
Though, that infamous survey that went out a while back did mention a Moon zone, and we've gotten I think just about everything else that survey mentioned so....
"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker
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No, it is not.
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Originally Posted by Ice_Wall
Also, isn't the entire game a co-op zone now with side switching?
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My Rogue can team with either side on any given time. It might not be 'co-op' but it sure is co-op.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
No, it is not.
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Yes, but your Rogue can't start heroic missions/Task Forces.|
Originally Posted by Clouded
My Rogue can team with either side on any given time. It might not be 'co-op' but it sure is co-op.
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[ edit / add ]
So, I guess co-op lackey?
Let's Dance!
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Precisely. Your Rogue/Vig is, essentially, "Take your little sister along on your date." True co-op would be the RWZ or Cimerora (to an extent.) |
Originally Posted by reiella
Yes, but your Rogue can't start heroic missions/Task Forces.
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I think those zones - especially the RWZ - highlight the problems this team has with coop zones, as well. The only actual "co op" missions I can think of are the V-day missions, where heroes and villains *must* work together to finish an objective (as opposed to just being "team with anyone.)
When the devs try to write co-op, they inevitably make some (really bad) assumptions or really "write down to" one side or the other. The most infamous (to me) line is the "I know the Rogue Isles don't seem like a place worth saving" in the RWZ - says who? My heroes would generally help anyone, and my villains... you've just told them they're basically trash that came from a trash country.
Now, if we just call them "shared" zones (which is looser than co-op - and more like Cim, with a hero specific and villain specific contact,) it gives a little more leeway - but it also runs into the problem (to me) of having to have a good reason why my hero/villain isn't trying to stop that villain/hero they see running around. But that's a whole other can of worms.
Co-op has the possibility of being more like "real" co-op with the "morality" tech we got in GR, so we'll have to see what happens there. Perhaps R/Vs can even get some specific contacts and missions so they're not just tagging along. But I'm not holding my breath.
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Entirely too many people do set out to be evil. There are sick, twisted, just plain evil psychos out there who will cut you just to watch you bleed.| The biggest problem with many of the arguments about "the bad guys" is simply this: Nobody ever sets out to be evil. |
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| Even the most heinous dictators in history had an argument (however warped) that they had to take some damnably tough decisions for the greater good. |
As for Tyrant, his motivations aren't clear from the material. If Word of God says he started with good intentions then that's that, but I'd have to argue the material doesn't convincingly portray that. (The material actually suggests that Praetorian society was corrupt long before the Tyrant-Hamidon hoedown.)
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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Rogues can start task forces (and vigilantes can start strike forces).
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Originally Posted by reiella
Yes, but your Rogue can't start heroic missions/Task Forces.
[ edit / add ] So, I guess co-op lackey? |
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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That's as good a way as any to describe Villains |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
they're basically trash that came from a trash country.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Congrats GG you've just indirectly admitted that you are a horrible person.
Because while Villains(in game) do questionable things, they are people(beings,entities) too.
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The things Villains do in the game are a little more than "questionable" |
Originally Posted by DMystic
Because while Villains(in game) do questionable things
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Except that my Villain has probably saved the world/city about as often as your heroes have. All while dealing with the politics and inter factional wars of Arachnos.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The things Villains do in the game are a little more than "questionable"
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And why haven't they changed to the right side? |
Originally Posted by DMystic
Except that my Villain has probably saved the world/city about as often as your heroes have. All while dealing with the politics and inter factional wars of Arachnos.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
They have.
They are on their side,which is the only right side.
Arachnos are wrong
Longbow is wrong.
Freedom Phalanx is wrong
from their perspective all the major players in Paragon and the Isles are wrong.
But they continue to live primarily in the Isles because the neighbors aren't as uptight and annoying.
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City of Heroes Only and No Villains or Anyone to Interact With Except to Say Hello How Are You Doing it Sure is a Nice Villain Free Day would be pretty boring.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
And why haven't they changed to the right side?
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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So the description of them as trash is accurate then |
Originally Posted by DMystic
They are on their side,which is the only right side.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
City of Heroes Only and No Villains or Anyone to Interact With Except to Say Hello How Are You Doing it Sure is a Nice Villain Free Day would be pretty boring.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Thus showing your prejudice and horrible nature.
Things my main has done
Prevented Bat'Zul from escaping it's prison and destroying the city.
Stopped Wailer Demons from decimating an entire city.
Arrested and stopped Countess Crey
Helped facilitate peaceful negotiations with The Restructurist Faction.
Prevented several items of powerful magic from getting out of hand.
Contained a Demon Crey was experimenting with.
Facilitated the discovery of a way to control Devouring Earth
Prevented the Leviathan from awakening and destroying the world.
Stopped the Goddess Hequat from regaining her power and establishing a new foothold on this world.
Prevented the CoT from eliminating the Mu bloodline(which is a huge part of the worlds population)
Stopped Scirocco from rewriting reality.
Stopped Reichman from siphoning power from different dimensions and becoming unstoppable.
that's off the top of my head and not counting any CO-Op content
EDIT: So take your trash comments and shove em cause my Villain has probably done more good for the world than your Hero ever has.
Double EDIT: So it'd be nice to have a zone that wasn't only about saving the world because frankly been there done that and some of those I'm saving make it seem like they aren't worth it.
This new zone will be small similiar to Cimerora.
Most likely two story arcs for each side.
Probably based in Praetoria. Somewhere outside the sonic barrier in a
"We have found an old village, town, city, base" that we have managed to gain a foothold in. Cole won't suspect we have been able to occupy this...
type scenario.
If there is a TF associated with it, it will contain approx 3 missions.
"Small"
"Light on content"
There will be no 'new' or even revamped Costume releases in it.
Seems to be the way this new larger improved Dev team has been going.
Just my opinion though.... based on the recent releases being put out.
Member of Team Awesome���
Justice Server
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I'm hoping the new zone is bigger(content wise) than Cimerora was.But I'm also concerned about the type of stuff we'll be doing in the zone.
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Originally Posted by Cosmic_Herald
This new zone will be small similiar to Cimerora.
Most likely two story arcs for each side. Probably based in Praetoria. Somewhere outside the sonic barrier in a "We have found an old village, town, city, base" that we have managed to gain a foothold in. Cole won't suspect we have been able to occupy this... type scenario. If there is a TF associated with it, it will contain approx 3 missions. "Small" "Light on content" There will be no 'new' or even revamped Costume releases in it. Seems to be the way this new larger improved Dev team has been going. Just my opinion though.... based on the recent releases being put out. |
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Yes, she is, no matter how many smilies she tries to hide it behind. |
Originally Posted by DMystic
Congrats GG you've just indirectly admitted that you are a horrible person.
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If I say to someone they're a <censored> <censored> <censored>-ing <censored>, "but I mean that in the nicest possible way," I've still called them a <censored> <censored> <censored>-ing <censored>.
She seems to think that's perfectly OK because she stuck one of her damn smilies at the end of it. It isn't. Thus her and every worthless thing she has to say being on ignore for quite some time.
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I'm sure that was all done for the sake of others and not yourself |
Originally Posted by DMystic
Things my main has done
Prevented Bat'Zul from escaping it's prison and destroying the city. Stopped Wailer Demons from decimating an entire city. Arrested and stopped Countess Crey Helped facilitate peaceful negotiations with The Restructurist Faction. Prevented several items of powerful magic from getting out of hand. Contained a Demon Crey was experimenting with. Facilitated the discovery of a way to control Devouring Earth Prevented the Leviathan from awakening and destroying the world. Stopped the Goddess Hequat from regaining her power and establishing a new foothold on this world. Prevented the CoT from eliminating the Mu bloodline(which is a huge part of the worlds population) Stopped Scirocco from rewriting reality. Stopped Reichman from siphoning power from different dimensions and becoming unstoppable. |
Plus, it doesn't seme like enough content to get you to 50
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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You're probably right about the game mechanics. So: have Neuron run in at the last second, after incarnates have left for safety, and defuse it. He is that fast. Drop hints that Neuron intentionally stayed out of the fight just so he could show up Anti Matter. Again!|
Originally Posted by Winterminal
<snip>
My own personal issue with this idea is balancing MMO game mechanics vs. realism of the in-game story. In the current trials, a "win" is awarded when either one of the facilities is successfully shut down, but not destroyed. This allows for a caveat: the content needs to be repeatable, so it is easy to say that the Praetorians rebuilt the place between the now and the last time you attacked (even though sometimes that is a matter of seconds :P ) It would feel very unrealistic if we destroyed all of the reactors on Keyes Island, then started the trial over again 1 minute later and find them standing there again. Now, having gotten all the logical and reasonable stuff off my chest... I LOVE the idea of a more villainous/sinister (but optional) path to complete these trials. I whole-heartedly agree with that. |
The intent remains. And one of these days...
Regarding the CoV zones. In Neutropolis, as the player moves towards Keyes island, the sky grows dark/smoggy. The devs should re-use this tech to make select "nice" spots on Rogue isles have clear blue skies. And put/move some contacts there. Right now there are no contacts in Villa Montrose or Villa Requin, as I recall. Would be a step in the right direction, yes?
I do not suffer from altitis, I enjoy every character of it.
Virtue: @Santorican
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