My friend is quitting soon...
By
Amir,
Posted on: 2011-04-11 22:05 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Oh... yes. That makes it much better. |
Originally Posted by Supermax
I didn't say he was wrong. I said he's a wuss.
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Op: I feel for your buddy. I'm much on the same track, 7+ years, and the last couple of issue concentrations have made me feel a bit overlooked by the devs as well, several direction changes even bringing it to the point where I've considered moving on myself.** The only suggestion I can make is for him is the same one I've been making to many of the people I hear mentioning their likes or dislikes about the game:
Bring these issues up through the official feedback channels to the Dev's themselves.
Posting your thoughts and opinions here is fine, but even though many of the devs have participated here in the past, this is really just a fan forum, Don't trust your feedback to filter through the forums to be noticed by the powers that be. Giving opinions in Beta is good as well, but even there, it's hard to be heard over many of the more vocal long-time participants, and even then, you're limited to the things their actually beta testing (as a rule).
Official Feedback is really the only way they know how the directions they take is being received by you.
On a personal level, I'd tell him to sit back and take a break for a little while before making the final decision.
** (Personally, I think that every issue, even if one slated to concentrate on one aspect of the game should include at least a little something for everyone. Lets face it, a handful of extras in I20 - a new contact or arc for solo/small teams, a new costume for the fashionestas, a long postponed bug fix, a new power customization, etc - might have taking a modicum of developer time away from the second installment of Incarnates, but it would have gone a long way to reassuring for most of us *not* interested in end-game that we're not being overlooked in lue of it.)
It's 106 miles to Grandville, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing faceless helmets
... Hit it ...
... Hit it ...
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Originally Posted by rsclark
Change is change. There is nothing superior about content requiring 16 people compared to content that you can do with 3-4. The idea that the numbers have to go higher to provide something new is short sighted and will very likely drive people away.
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In my opinion you are making too much of it.
The way you need to be looking at these raids is like instanced versions of Hamidon or the Rikti ship raids. It is not a Task Force. In fact, if the "friend" who was mentioned by the OP paused to think about it, he'd realize that Lambda is a significantly paired down raid compared to what has come before.
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What about Hamidon and the Rikti Mothership? The Vanguard Merit prices for most of the Vanguard items are set so high that acquiring them without running mothership raids is completely unfeasible.|
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
We have a game that has a STATIC subscriber base of about 100,000 give or take each month.
We have a game which has NEVER in 7 years had this style of grind for a reward. |
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
I will NOT become a farmer for a shiney. I understand his friend - the one who has been here since the beginning and he sees the game he loved take a turn into a style of play he loathes.
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City of Heroes, at the time I started playing it nearly six years ago, was the second MMO I had played (the first being a well-known Japanese one). I quit the latter game because I was unhappy with the high time investment and the combination of everything needing groups with the difficulty of assembling said groups given players' elitism.
In the six years since, City of Heroes is not the only MMO I've played - I had a rather long stint with the industry leader as well. Guess what? I quit that game for the same reason, too. Exclusionary elitists + difficulty getting groups + everything requiring a group.
And yet, I still play City of Heroes, and even with Issue 20, I don't see myself quitting anytime soon. On the contrary - the new trials in Issue 20 are some of the most fun I've had playing CoH in years.
You see, at least from my perspective playing exclusively on Virtue, City of Heroes is lacking the most toxic element in that combination: the exclusionists. I don't want to imply that Virtue is lacking in 'elite' players by a long shot - on the contrary, we have some very, very fine players there. But in my experiences, they all seem to lack the negative qualities people tend to ascribe to 'elitists'.
On Virtue, I've never seen a person be kicked out of any team I've been a part of because the leader didn't like their build, or indeed, for any other reason at all short of the player in question being socially rude to the rest of the team.
On Virtue, I've never seen a team I've been a part of reject a player because they weren't IO-slotted. (And if I did, frankly, I'd quit such a team - there are plenty of other fish in the water.) The only rejection I _have_ seen is for people lacking an alpha slot on Apex and Tin Mage, something which is unfortunately mechanically enforced by the developers. Realistically speaking, though, I fail to see how requiring the alpha slot is much different from requiring people to be level 30 before they can run Manticore - if anything, it takes less effort to common-slot than it does to get to level 30, let alone 50. (P.S.: If you happen to play on Virtue and you can't beat Trapdoor, the server has plenty of people who are often able and willing to provide assistance, myself included.)
And bear in mind: I mostly PuG.
Somehow, as a player who has quit every other MMO he's played because of PuGs' toxic attitudes, I manage to find PuGs in City of Heroes not only tolerable, but downright enjoyable. I've PuG'ed every Task Force in the game, repeatedly. I've gotten every single blue-side Master of ______ Task Force badge - those were mostly PuGs, too (they all had 1-2 other people I knew on them). I got 3/4 of the badges for Master of the BAF on a PuG I randomly queued into through the turnstile.
Even with the advent of I20, I have encountered nothing but the same polite and accommodating people in PuGs that I've been accustomed to playing with since the days of issue 4, when I began playing. And honestly, when I heard the news about I20, I had the same fears as you did.
As of yet, they have not been realized. Mind you, I'm aware there are jerks playing this game - plenty of them have shown up in this thread, in fact, criticizing the OP or their friend.
All I can say is that I haven't seen them in game on the server I play on.
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
I am completely ignoring this "content" however do you think there will be MORE such "content"? I do indeed and it causes me great irritation when the so called "best community" in the world attacks a player who finds a completely new style of play after 7 years - not desirable.
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I would say that you should at least give the trials a try before you decide to completely ignore them.
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
If you wanted to do a Hamidon raid you could and get a shiney little boost - but it was small. If I wanted to do a sewer trial I got a similar reward. Small but useful.
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Frankly, IOs are a much more profound boost than Incarnate powers are on the whole, still, at least in my opinion. I do find myself obligated to correct you though:
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
Now if you wish to ignore the farming lifestyle it is NOT a small boost - it is 3 levels in boost and potentially a gated content block.
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
It is Permanent pets
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
permanent AoE attack powers
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
We have TF's now that if you do not have an Alpha slot reduces you to -8. What happens in the future if you don't climb on the hamster wheel?
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
This is the most foolish ill advised change to this game since before ED.
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The loss of customers this will cause cannot just be absorbed.
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The players love the game they have played for all this time and now the Devs are making it into WoW or some other game that was NOT played the way City of Heroes was.
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That's not to stay that I don't still enjoy steamrolling the old stuff from time to time.
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Originally Posted by Flying_Infant
The way I see it is this, the devs tried tirelessly (I'd imagine) to stop farming, and farm missions in AE. Then they go out, make two giant farming missions, and slap an "Issue" label on it. It'd be one thing if it were, like, a huge story arc, or a lengthy TF where you had missions. Instead its one giant mission where you get to go in an farm the baddies for threads and IXP.
Now, mind you, I've played both of the new Trials. With one toon. Out of all my 50s (and theres not too many, even though I've played since right after COH launch, I have altitis) I only have 3 IOd up. And 2 of those were done by a friend of mine (who is awesome and my hero). I also do not find the forced farming to be a good idea, basically thats what these trials boil down to. Farm the giant mission so you can be more uber. At least make it a full TF with a story, and missions. Not a farm. |
I ran Lambda before the servers went down Tuesday morning. I did something I have a habit of doing; Protesting Praetor White when he jumps down and does his cutscene, blocking him from view with my pets and myself doing /em ProtestLoyalist.
Afterward, I noticed I misplaced my 15 odd something trip mines, and ran back to train him into them. As a result, he went running out right of Lambda and caused a fail.
The reaction from the full 16 man attempt? About 6 or so people heavy-raged, while everyone else was still laughing over the protest.
The leader, who commonly runs Lambda and B.A.F. on Virtue, @Dysc, promptly told the ragers to shut the hell up and stop raging over a game. One of those so-called 'elitist' promptly told everyone who was raging to shove it, while laughing his own head off at the scenario.
I did apologize for it, as it was an accident, but I was happy to know the majority of that Lambda attempt laughed it off and had a good time, and the vocal minority either got over it and joined in the laughter, or realized how stupid they were acting.
You know what would have been the result of that if I had done that on the industry leader? At least five guilds blacklisting me, and a whole lot of server rep tanking.
SURE AM GLAD WE CAN COMPARE CITY OF HEROES TO THAT GAME! 
DD
Baka.
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Honestly, the easiest solution to what seems to be the crux of his issue is to get to know more people. Some people around here wear "Introvert" like a badge of honor, but even the worst introverts I know IRL are fine with people they've had the courage to spend time with and get to know. It just takes effort.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
He REALLY hates teaming with he doesn't know.
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Granted, to some, "effort" is a "dirty word", particularly those that wallow in their isolation because it's "safe". In that kind of situation, there's really nothing to be done.
On the flipside of this, regarding all the "It's an MMO, get used to it" people. I used to think the same way. Then I had an epiphany. Yes, it stands for Massive Multiplayer Online. This doesn't mean teaming should be the solution to every challenge, or the only means to reach high-level goals. All it means is that you have the ability to interact with other characters played by real people. The "It's an MMO" rationale is trite and meaningless. Get over yourselves and stop using it.
Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
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I have no trouble relaxing at all. |
Originally Posted by Psychoti
That's kind of an unfair assumption, really. I know several people that just have a lot of difficulty relaxing around people they do not know or aren't familiar with. For those that play CoH more to relax than other reasons I am sure that it would be frustrating to have to go outside your comfort zone in order to advance your characters in a timely fashion.
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Because I always remember I'm not actually around these people. They are miles and miles away from my physical location, connected to me only by a team window over the internet.
It's a video game, and these people can only adversely affect your life in any way if you take what they say to heart.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Yep. I reckon thats the worst part too.
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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
The worst part of the Incarnate system is that people like you are becoming more and more normal.
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I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
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While what you say is true, I don't see how it's relevant. The difference between Hamidon and MS and these new trials is that Hami and MS aren't required for advancing your character. Until we see some indication that there is a solo or small group path to incarnate content, then the OP reaction is very reasonable. The devs are making it look like these huge mega groups are the future of the game.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
In my opinion you are making too much of it.
The way you need to be looking at these raids is like instanced versions of Hamidon or the Rikti ship raids. It is not a Task Force. In fact, if the "friend" who was mentioned by the OP paused to think about it, he'd realize that Lambda is a significantly paired down raid compared to what has come before. |
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It's a fair note that right now, the only path to "incarnate content" is via "huge mega groups"... because there *is* no solo/small group "incarnate content" to have a solo/small group path to.|
Originally Posted by rsclark
While what you say is true, I don't see how it's relevant. The difference between Hamidon and MS and these new trials is that Hami and MS aren't required for advancing your character. Until we see some indication that there is a solo or small group path to incarnate content, then the OP reaction is very reasonable. The devs are making it look like these huge mega groups are the future of the game.
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Unless you consider a couple of AoE powers to be "content", that is. Personally, I don't.
That's not to say I wouldn't like to see some solo/small team story arcs geared to incarnate 50s. I'm just not sure exactly how the devs could set them apart from existing level 50 content.
i think he should get over his fear of new players. random pugers(the people who will never listen) i can see not wanting to join or play with, he should make his circle of friends a bit bigger is all. i ve ran lambda with 6 people it wasn t to hard as for baf wow that might be hard but i bet awsome players with all the incarnate stuff slotted could do it with 12 hope u keep your friend,i ve lost some meny good friend in this game myself good luck
Please excuse the snippage
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I mostly pug on virtue as well. I mostly agree with you. |
Originally Posted by Reiska
On Virtue, I've never seen a team I've been a part of reject a player because they weren't IO-slotted. (And if I did, frankly, I'd quit such a team - there are plenty of other fish in the water.) The only rejection I _have_ seen is for people lacking an alpha slot on Apex and Tin Mage, something which is unfortunately mechanically enforced by the developers. Realistically speaking, though, I fail to see how requiring the alpha slot is much different from requiring people to be level 30 before they can run Manticore - if anything, it takes less effort to common-slot than it does to get to level 30, let alone 50. (P.S.: If you happen to play on Virtue and you can't beat Trapdoor, the server has plenty of people who are often able and willing to provide assistance, myself included.) And bear in mind: I mostly PuG. |
But I have seen tons of times a TF recruiting only support/tanking type/something on the major global channels like virtue Tfs, VU or LFG beta. Its common enough to see.
I've seen plenty of ITFs that only wanted level 50s.
I've seen plenty of Speed TFs asking for things like Ice shields on ITF over other support.
I've had scrappers refused from doing SFs because they had enough damage.
I've seen pure healer or 100% support with only one attack builds kicked.
I've seen builds ridiculed in team for lacking powers, more or less encouraging the person to quit the team.
When LRSF and STF where first notice of well, I saw some very picky team making.
Then theres all blaster TFs but yeah they don't count
I'm really surprised the only rejection from teaming you've seen on Virtue is from the alpha slot TFs.
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Even with the advent of I20, I have encountered nothing but the same polite and accommodating people in PuGs that I've been accustomed to playing with since the days of issue 4, when I began playing. And honestly, when I heard the news about I20, I had the same fears as you did. As of yet, they have not been realized. Mind you, I'm aware there are jerks playing this game - plenty of them have shown up in this thread, in fact, criticizing the OP or their friend. All I can say is that I haven't seen them in game on the server I play on. |
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Please don't take the actions of a vocal minority on this forum as representative of the game's community as a whole. I would say that you should at least give the trials a try before you decide to completely ignore them. |
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Frankly, IOs are a much more profound boost than Incarnate powers are on the whole, still, at least in my opinion. I do find myself obligated to correct you though: |
The relative ease of getting incarnate powers is going to do a lot for most people's builds. Its going to boost them up a lot. Players who have got them in my experience have been raving about how good they are.
I think more players are going to be more powerful due to incarnate powers than from IOing out. Because more players will incarnate than heavily IO.
They are good powers, that will do a lot in level 50 content.
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| Which aren't really necessary for any regular content currently in the game, the incarnate trials included, and anyone who rejects you from a team for not having them is leading a team you didn't want to be on anyway, frankly. In my experience, as above, our playerbase is above this. |
People wanting to do speed run ITFs, may well end up needing them. We'll know better in a few months when there's more expectation among the community that more level 50's have got them. But I wont be surprised the first time I see "speed itf looking for incarnates +3".
Heck, I think there's evena thread in beta discussion about how fast they could do the ITF now.
Not necessary doesn't equal not given preference.
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| From what I saw, for all the noise and outcry about ED on the forums, only about 3000 account cancellations could be directly tied to it in the end, or about a 1% loss at the time. |
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
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Incarnate powers still blow up regular 50s just fine.
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Originally Posted by Reiska
It's a fair note that right now, the only path to "incarnate content" is via "huge mega groups"... because there *is* no solo/small group "incarnate content" to have a solo/small group path to.
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I do find the highlighted statement interesting. While other MMOs were making the gameplay harder and harder, not giving in at all to simplifying/shortening/abbreviating level progression and UI enhancements, CoX went in the opposite direction... Others raised the level cap, CoX refused on principle...|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
Fear of failure I doubt, and this individual in question sounds like someone that cares about who joins his team (not exactly min/max player, but probably doesn't want to team with a petless MM for example).
As a result, this individual in question may end up liking the end game system with the market leader. 40 man----->25 man----->10 man Why is CoX trying to go in the opposite direction of industry trends I don't know. CoX was highly regarded for its small group content for a long time, and when the rest of the industry has started to follow this formula, CoX decides to give up on its Golden Standard??? No wonder this individual is jaded. |
I'm sure others are more qualified than me to give more examples about how CoX has repeatedly bucked industry trends to the benefit of the playerbase. So now "they" 're all going to smaller teams... though I'm (wildly) guessing the content is geared to the UberElite players...
And CoX is providing something suited to larger groups - this may be considered in some ways consistent with 'bucking the trend', no?
When the Market Leader responds to actual player input, and not 'market trends,' maybe they'll have something I want. They can count all the money they want, just not mine. In the meantime, lulz to the Market Leader.
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
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I seem to recall that being a dev, possibly Statesman, statement at the time. |
Originally Posted by tanstaafl
I'm just gonna say bogus, and unknowable figures, unless you have some proof.
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Actually did a bit of searching (keyword "Subscription," user "Statesman_NA") and found this, which I think (entire-thread wise) is the key - Statesman mentioned we'd kept gaining customers after ED, and referred to sub numbers on another site.
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Oh it's YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (hide and run)|
Originally Posted by Flying_Infant
The way I see it is this, the devs tried tirelessly (I'd imagine) to stop farming, and farm missions in AE. Then they go out, make two giant farming missions, and slap an "Issue" label on it. It'd be one thing if it were, like, a huge story arc, or a lengthy TF where you had missions. Instead its one giant mission where you get to go in an farm the baddies for threads and IXP.
Now, mind you, I've played both of the new Trials. With one toon. Out of all my 50s (and theres not too many, even though I've played since right after COH launch, I have altitis) I only have 3 IOd up. And 2 of those were done by a friend of mine (who is awesome and my hero). I also do not find the forced farming to be a good idea, basically thats what these trials boil down to. Farm the giant mission so you can be more uber. At least make it a full TF with a story, and missions. Not a farm. |
PS: I have two takes on this. One I think people like "short" mission with full of excitement/action (Apex is a great example). Strike Force with stupid "hunt this and hunt that" mission provides no challenge but time-waster. I can see how these two trials seem like "farming" because we are really just farming for Threads and Drops. Other than doing these two trials, it will take months/year to get to the point where these "raiders" can do in a few days. However, i20 is totally new and there are more trials/events coming up. My purpose of this thread is to find out whether or not we will have more ways to get those Incarnate Abilities and whether or not we'll have trials that only require "fewer" players. (Did I mention I tried to form a 24-player team in pocket D last night and crashed twice? Oh..how annoying!)
I haven't considered the two trials "farm" yet because I still haven't beat Lamba with 8-9 people T_T. The trials can still be challenging without a full team (24 or 16) and I don't think the dev considers it a "farm" if they made the content.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Years ago my friends and I played a variety of RPGs. We were a pretty tight group and whenever one game closed another would open and, schedules allowing, we all knew who would be involved.
One of my more astute friends realized that we were becoming too cut off from outsiders. We didn't know a lot of other gamers but we knew a few and they were good people. He started this grand scheme of running three games at a time with three different GMs all on the same night in the same place. The three GMs would confer and interweave their plot lines and even swap players from time to time. We all met a wider group of people and had more friends because of it.
I'm not saying that your friend is wrong to prefer playing only with established friends but as you said he met YOU through one of his rare PUGs years ago didn't he? If it can happen once it can happen again.
I don't love the various TFs and Trials because I've been on some teams in the past where I was derided for being the new guy and not knowing what was going on. I know how this sort of attitude can sour a game fast and I left for over a year because of it.
But for every jerk out there you can find many good players and even a few real gems. The people you invite to your SG and chat with during the game.
Perhaps the sheer size of the Trial Leagues is too much of a shock. My first MS raid was a bit intimidating and Leagues can be the same. Perhaps what you should try to do is bring in ONE new player...someone one of your circle knows and trusts to not be rude. Play with him (boy that sounds wrong...) for a while and let everyone get used to the idea. If it works out then add another. Only bring in people you reccomend or are reccomended by people you know and respect.
There's nothing wrong with only wanting to play with good friends. But there's also nothing wrong with making your circle of good friends bigger. I cannot imagine having a whole league made up of friends of mine but I bet it would be a great feeling if it all went well.
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
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Automatically bucking trends is just as stupid as automatically following trends. It's perfectly fine to like a song they play on the radio. It doesn't make you uncool. Your leather jacket wearing friends won't laugh at you.
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Originally Posted by galadiman
And CoX is providing something suited to larger groups - this may be considered in some ways consistent with 'bucking the trend', no?
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I was in a group earlier last night on Virtue with the leader telling people not to photobomb Marauder. Now I see why.|
Originally Posted by Reppu
I ran Lambda before the servers went down Tuesday morning. I did something I have a habit of doing; Protesting Praetor White when he jumps down and does his cutscene, blocking him from view with my pets and myself doing /em ProtestLoyalist.
Afterward, I noticed I misplaced my 15 odd something trip mines, and ran back to train him into them. As a result, he went running out right of Lambda and caused a fail. The reaction from the full 16 man attempt? About 6 or so people heavy-raged, while everyone else was still laughing over the protest. The leader, who commonly runs Lambda and B.A.F. on Virtue, @Dysc, promptly told the ragers to shut the hell up and stop raging over a game. One of those so-called 'elitist' promptly told everyone who was raging to shove it, while laughing his own head off at the scenario. I did apologize for it, as it was an accident, but I was happy to know the majority of that Lambda attempt laughed it off and had a good time, and the vocal minority either got over it and joined in the laughter, or realized how stupid they were acting. You know what would have been the result of that if I had done that on the industry leader? At least five guilds blacklisting me, and a whole lot of server rep tanking. SURE AM GLAD WE CAN COMPARE CITY OF HEROES TO THAT GAME! DDBaka. |
I wish I was there to see that.
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I know what happened directly after ED - our SG went from 75 members to 10 in 2 months.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I seem to recall that being a dev, possibly Statesman, statement at the time.
... Actually did a bit of searching (keyword "Subscription," user "Statesman_NA") and found this, which I think (entire-thread wise) is the key - Statesman mentioned we'd kept gaining customers after ED, and referred to sub numbers on another site. |
Yes, it was not amusing. Statesman looked at subscriptions - I looked at players lost.
I keep seeing people say try this - it might be fun. Do you think this is the only MMO I have ever played? Do you think I can't see that this is only the slightest of steps towards the farming and kill 50 swamp rats that other games do? Were you folks around during the Hamidon reward massacre? Where people could and did grief the reward?
It was made fair in the end. I expect the Devs will see that the long term future of this game is not to be found in the farming. If I am wrong - I will gladly leave. I will say however the Devs don't post any longer and its likely that with the few who actually interacted with us leaving - they may not give a flying F at a rolling donut - what we think.
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Originally Posted by Kailure
I was in a group earlier last night on Virtue with the leader telling people not to photobomb Marauder. Now I see why.
I wish I was there to see that. |
Pfffft. I'll keep doing it, just with out the, uh, failure
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To be fair, at the time I wrote the post, I didn't really count speed runs in the equation, only normal runs, and yeah, you are right - people are much more picky when it comes to doing speed runs, largely as a function of efficient speed runs requiring fairly specific powersets/builds (which ones, of course, vary with the TF). I admittedly also didn't really count statements like "<specific AT> preferred" where specific AT is usually any support AT or a tanker, because I figured it to be essentially common wisdom that for most of the level 50 task forces (counting ITF in this), given an otherwise average team, some form of support and/or a tank is a necessity for the TF to be successfully cleared. This is generally, again, just a consequence of the TF design - STF/LRSF are extremely painful without a tanker/brute; ITF similarly requires some form of aggro control if you don't have the raw DPS to chew through Romulus' healing; LGTF is nigh impossible to complete without controllers or dominators specifically because of the Weakened Hamidon mission*; and surviving the hydra fire long enough to take out the pylons in Apex is difficult without some kind of support (most likely of the healing variety, given the toxic damage type). |
Originally Posted by tanstaafl
I mostly pug on virtue as well. I mostly agree with you.
But I have seen tons of times a TF recruiting only support/tanking type/something on the major global channels like virtue Tfs, VU or LFG beta. Its common enough to see. I've seen plenty of ITFs that only wanted level 50s. I've seen plenty of Speed TFs asking for things like Ice shields on ITF over other support. I've had scrappers refused from doing SFs because they had enough damage. I've seen pure healer or 100% support with only one attack builds kicked. I've seen builds ridiculed in team for lacking powers, more or less encouraging the person to quit the team. When LRSF and STF where first notice of well, I saw some very picky team making. Then theres all blaster TFs but yeah they don't count I'm really surprised the only rejection from teaming you've seen on Virtue is from the alpha slot TFs. |
You did remind me though, and I have to concede, that I made an error: yeah, I did see people rejected from Apex runs in the first week or so it was live for being melee. (Including myself, heh.) I've also seen the "50 only" ITFs, and I personally think they're silly, but they didn't really register to me as exclusionary in that sense - however, I think you're right there.
I've never seen anyone rejected for being a pure healer/support build, personally, but I can believe it happening, so there's that as well. As for ridiculing builds in team chat, that's personally one of the things I file under 'socially rude' - I'm not above making suggestions to people regarding their builds, mind you, but I try to do so constructively; it's a lot more productive to say "You should consider taking <taunt aura> or <mez protection power>, it would make things a lot easier" than "lol your build sucks".
* Yes, I'm aware other ATs can have holds via ancillary pools or sometimes their primaries; these powers are often skipped though, or not of enough magnitude/duration to hold a green mito by themselves.
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Originally Posted by tanstaafl
Most players I come across in Pugs are not heavily IO'd. I don't believe that the 'average' player is purpled out, or is a soft capped blaster. Lots of people I see still using SOs at 50s rather than even generic IOs.
The relative ease of getting incarnate powers is going to do a lot for most people's builds. Its going to boost them up a lot. Players who have got them in my experience have been raving about how good they are. I think more players are going to be more powerful due to incarnate powers than from IOing out. Because more players will incarnate than heavily IO. They are good powers, that will do a lot in level 50 content. |
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Originally Posted by tanstaafl
People wanting to do speed run ITFs, may well end up needing them. We'll know better in a few months when there's more expectation among the community that more level 50's have got them. But I wont be surprised the first time I see "speed itf looking for incarnates +3".
Heck, I think there's evena thread in beta discussion about how fast they could do the ITF now. Not necessary doesn't equal not given preference. |
Okay, some of you are good folks, while others of you, well I am quite angry, frankly.
I am a member of the OP's group and a mutual friend of the person he is talking about. I have played with him since I started playing and know him somewhat at least, so seeing some of you just laying judgement on him without having any clue what's going on--well, I just hope you're nicer people in person.
To explain a bit more, he's been playing the game for years. He used to have quite a large group of people to play with, but they've all left the game. Only two other people are left from his original group, and we simply don't recruit all that much.
He's also had a lot of bad experiences from pugs. So many, in fact, that he seems to have the worst pugging luck of anyone I know. That's the main reason why he avoids them now--they just never seem to go right with him.
We're also a rather social group. It's not too unusual to die from chatting too much. That atmosphere doesn't work well with pugs.
all i can say to the OP is oh well.
I have a friend who also seams to not want to play with groups....and wants to do solo stuff only...go figure.....not like there is any shortage of that.
No one has to do the incarnate things....its not some requirement...might make it easier with some things...like APEX or TIN MAGE...but its not required to do those task forces.
The supergroup I have been with(The Legion of Catgirls)...or rather the group which requires about 5 or 6 super groups on multiple servers.....is still growing.
So if your group lost people becasue of some patch...maybe they simply switched groups....i plead the 5th on saying if they are in the Legion of not.
I know i for one, took some of my own characters out of some other super groups....becasue the groups where.....just ok......not the greatest....and the members where kind of lame....(i.e. they wanted me to do everything for them and help them all the time but wouldnt ever help me or anyone else...no i wont name names either)
So anywise if your friend is quitting....i hate to point this out....but with so much time invested into this game and so many things done......the reason isnt this game.....its some other reason. The reasons being in game issues and such is a major cop-out...as in thats not the truth at all.
BY the way...this is a bit off topic........has anyone else noticed how many worlds of warcraft refugess we have been getting into this game.....
Makes me real happy to see them playing...as they finaly figured out this game is superior.
So back on topic.....your friend may be quitting....but this game is getting new players all the time....so will anyone miss your friend?.....maybe a few....but most ly people will be too busy greeting and playing with new players to really worry about it.
And for me personaly i highly doubt i would quit for any game issues...becasue this games evolving nature makes most missions and things constantly change...it keeps me interested to see what they do next.
When i started playing they didnt even have doors in missions....and you could count the differing indoor maps on both hands....and there wasnt very much ambience to much of anything.....but as time went on....the garage in one mission got cars and stuff to look like a garage....the drug factory got drug factory stuff in it with neat murky pools and eerie mist.....the fortune teller to rescue stopped being a generic citizen that would sometimes look like a guy in a suit....so now she realy is a fortune teller looking costumed person with abilities....heck sky way finaly got the park on the east side completed...took them long enough....now if only they would get the constuction done on some fo the rest of it....there have been task forces that no longer exist and invasions from rularuu and rikti that didnt just disapear after an hour....so many changes.....
I dont know....i really want to see what will happen next.
Tell your quitting friend good luck
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Interesting read. Thanks for searching it up. It's worth reading more of that thread, espically if you take state's wording with a grain of salt.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I seem to recall that being a dev, possibly Statesman, statement at the time.
... Actually did a bit of searching (keyword "Subscription," user "Statesman_NA") and found this, which I think (entire-thread wise) is the key - Statesman mentioned we'd kept gaining customers after ED, and referred to sub numbers on another site. |
BTW I'm not trying to claim that ED caused masses of lost, more that anyone (non redname) likley to be posting exact numbers is not likley to be able to be considered accurate. There is also issues like people who sign up for 6/12 months dont get thier ragequits counted :P
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
The way I see it is this, the devs tried tirelessly (I'd imagine) to stop farming, and farm missions in AE. Then they go out, make two giant farming missions, and slap an "Issue" label on it. It'd be one thing if it were, like, a huge story arc, or a lengthy TF where you had missions. Instead its one giant mission where you get to go in an farm the baddies for threads and IXP.
Now, mind you, I've played both of the new Trials. With one toon. Out of all my 50s (and theres not too many, even though I've played since right after COH launch, I have altitis) I only have 3 IOd up. And 2 of those were done by a friend of mine (who is awesome and my hero). I also do not find the forced farming to be a good idea, basically thats what these trials boil down to. Farm the giant mission so you can be more uber.
At least make it a full TF with a story, and missions. Not a farm.