Depending on what time zone that 1am is, I may have been on that BAF.
Certainly I was on one in a similar situation: leader had organised one team of almost pure scrappers (I think they were to take down the reinforcements or something, or were a roaming team for commandos that got through the net, I forget) and then just as it filled the leader disappeared. Except on the one I was on about 8 more people disappeared. Few minutes later he was back on broadcast forming a baf again.
However, it turned out (assuming he wasn't lying ;p) that they'd disconnected and he assumed the whole zone had, so he was trying to reassemble (asked "dc's to pst for reinvite"). But by then the remainder of our league had written him off as a griefing jerk with some starting to hurl insults in broadcast, so we didn't merge back to see if it was true 
In any case, after a few more quit because they didn't want to wait for us to refill the slots, the BAF started and went on to success, so it worked out for me, and in the end that's what really matters.
I'm just tired of people, whether intentional or not, griefing my extra Asteral Merit by clicking computers.
But to your point, there's also be at least one dude on Freedom broadcasting that he has one slot left on a BAF even though he doesn't even have a team... just so tons of people will send him tells. It's actually kind of funny. Your situation seems like a lot of work for little grief caused (what's to stop you from just inviting one more person and going?)
I know the guy you're talking about. I joined a couple of his leagues actually. I personally don't think he's doing it to grief anyone. It seems to me that for some reason, he just likes to put teams together. That or he gets tired of watching 100 people broadcasting LFT. He *does* actually run the team from time to time though. Definitely an odd fellow but harmless really.
Doesn't really seem like griefing to me. Maybe the conduct of an ******, but not griefing. Although I wouldn't expect people to leave a league just because the leader drops out.
Quote:
My time zone is Pacific. I think that folks thought he deliberately bailed because there were 25 toons in the league when he said, 'I'm out.' That implied that he invited a replacement so the league would have 24 total when he quit. Also, some may have viewed it as griefing because there were 16+ melee and just a handful of support and control. |
Originally Posted by Biowraith
Depending on what time zone that 1am is, I may have been on that BAF.
But by then the remainder of our league had written him off as a griefing jerk with some starting to hurl insults in broadcast, so we didn't merge back to see if it was true |
It is also bad form for the League leader to quit since it gives the impression that the league wasn't formed with success in mind. Folks want to succeed, so if there's uncertainty, some may choose to avoid it and take an opportunity elsewhere.
I put a '?' in the post title because it was such a weird situation and I wasn't sure if it counts as griefing.
I was the leader who took over that BAF. Maybe he was griefing, maybe not..either way, the teams were totally terrible when I joined, then ended up with the star. As Cray said, its bad form to quit, and definately seemed like he was forming silly teams on purpose. Team 1 had a decent mix, tank/support, damage/control. Team 2 was ALL scrappers, team 3 was ALL brutes/tanks.
I think we ended up going in with 20, cause people were quitting, assuming we had no chance. Which I didnt think we did. Then lost more on the loading, so about 17 as a final count. With only THREE support toons I might add..a kin, a rad (I think) and a bubble mm.
And we totally smashed it....no escaped prisoners, avs dead together first time. SO if you were on the BAF..thanks for sticking with it.
In regards to the previous leader..I dont think english is his first language. But surely the word 'stupid' translates into some other tongues.
Yeah his teams do look very odd compared to the "standard" formats but in defense of the guy, I had yet to fail a BAF with a league that he concocted. Of course most of the time we use our own strategies instead of the following the instructions he give out but I digress. BAF is simple and easy enough that you can literally invite the first 23 "LFT" you see and still end up with a mix that will have a good chance of succeeding. Actually I think that's precisely what this guy is doing, inviting everyone he sees that's LFT. From what I've noticed thus far in Pocket D, there is definitely an abnormally high amount of melee toons LFT as compared to support ones and his teams reflect that imbalance. Anyways, the key part to BAF isn't necessarily team composition but rather coordination between teams. As long as people listen to instructions and pay attention to runners/AV health bars, you would be hard pressed to fail it. A "perfect" league need not apply here. Unless of course you're going for the "Master of" badge.
As far as I'm concerned, if he wants to spend the night putting leagues together only to quit and let the others play. Go for it. It takes the most time consuming part of BAF out of the equation.
Hmmm Not sure why you would invite 25 and leave to start over...unless you are timing how long it takes to form a full team...
Hm. A tangential thought: the perceived unusually high number of melee ATs looking for Leagues could be due to the fact that all the melee ATs are now actually LFT because they can't solo their way to Incarnate.
It could also be that people have heard "the trials are tough" and took this to mean "bring something survivable." My own reasoning was just the opposite: I heard "the trials are tough" and thought "roll out the buffs and debuffs!" Then again, I've been on support-heavy teams that started steamrolling +2/+3 at level 12. Support is crazy in this game.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
Quote:
Well, personally I think it could also due to the fact that are a lot of people out there who would list their Tank/Brute/Scraps as their favorite characters to play. That is the case for me at least with my Doms/VEATs tied for 2nd place. It would make sense for people to prioritize their *favorites* on top of the incarnate to do list. If we take a look at the AT & Powers section of the forums, you would notice that the 3 most active sub-forums are Scrappers, Brutes and Tankers. Just a passing thought.
|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Hm. A tangential thought: the perceived unusually high number of melee ATs looking for Leagues could be due to the fact that all the melee ATs are now actually LFT because they can't solo their way to Incarnate.
|
Quote:
I was the cold/rad. I had some control, so I put out ice storm and blizzard as often as possible to slow Lts down and held the commandos. Then I alternated debuffs on Night and Siege to pace the HP. Thankfully, there was just a couple deaths, so I was able to rez folks. And yup, the 17 toon league managed to pull thru.|
Originally Posted by MisterD
With only THREE support toons I might add..a kin, a rad (I think) and a bubble mm.
|
As for the trials being tough, I still need to do it on my squishies and although it does get rough in some areas, it's not a faceplant factory. There does seem a lot more melee folks broadcasting and I notice that the league leaders often have to reserve the last 3 spots for support.
In terms of coordination, I was on a 24 man BAF around 1 AM-ish last night. A lot of prisoners were escaping on this BAF. I hunted around the exits and found that 1 exit had no coverage. So I agree that coordination is important.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by baron_inferno
That or he gets tired of watching 100 people broadcasting LFT. He *does* actually run the team from time to time though. Definitely an odd fellow but harmless really.
|
This.
I know the guy, and yes this is exactly what he is doing. People should be thankful that somebody is willing to put together a team when there's a room for of people broadcasting for one. But no, we get people complaining instead.
Quote:
Yes we should be thankfull to the guy that puts together a team, puts someone else in charge then takes off. The new person in charge does not always want to be in charge and you end up with 10 different people giving different orders and no one listening to anyone because no one is really in charge. Yes thank you for that Mikey.
|
Originally Posted by Antigonus
This.
I know the guy, and yes this is exactly what he is doing. People should be thankful that somebody is willing to put together a team when there's a room for of people broadcasting for one. But no, we get people complaining instead. |
Quote:
I'd be grateful to the point of permanently one-starring a posterior chapeau of this type; and then I would make sure everyone in our coalition knew not only that toon's name, but his global as well. What he is doing is neither praiseworthy or helpful - to the contrary. |
Originally Posted by Antigonus
This.
I know the guy, and yes this is exactly what he is doing. People should be thankful that somebody is willing to put together a team when there's a room for of people broadcasting for one. But no, we get people complaining instead. |
Thank God he's not on my server.
I joined one of these leagues organized by this guy last night. It was the second time I tried the BAF. I just got done with a trial attempt that failed horribly because of no organization, when I got a request to join this new league. It went as others described; the organizer made a team of scrappers, a team of tanks/brutes, and I think one more team of other ATs mixed together, and then the organizer gave some directions for the teams and quit.
We ran the trial and everything went smoothly. We even captured all of the prisoners for the badge and finished pretty quickly. I don't know his motives (maybe he is dual-boxing and organizing leagues for his alts?) but I had a good experience and would join one of his teams again. It certainly went a lot better than the first time when I joined a PUG team put together the more "traditional" way.
Quote:
If he is the one I think you all are referring to (the Mikey thing gives it away if on Freedom), the fellow is a pretty good egg. I get the feeling English isn't his first language, but he tries hard.|
Originally Posted by Speculator
I joined one of these leagues organized by this guy last night. It was the second time I tried the BAF. I just got done with a trial attempt that failed horribly because of no organization, when I got a request to join this new league. It went as others described; the organizer made a team of scrappers, a team of tanks/brutes, and I think one more team of other ATs mixed together, and then the organizer gave some directions for the teams and quit.
We ran the trial and everything went smoothly. We even captured all of the prisoners for the badge and finished pretty quickly. I don't know his motives (maybe he is dual-boxing and organizing leagues for his alts?) but I had a good experience and would join one of his teams again. It certainly went a lot better than the first time when I joined a PUG team put together the more "traditional" way. |
Setting up leagues for others to run and have a good time (whilst not realizing the affect of leaving said league before it starts) also would fit with this personality.
He really does not mean harm.
Explorer: 93%. Achiever: 40%. Socializer: 40%. Killer 33%.
Current Heroes and Villains (altitis holding at 50 currents)
To all the devs, past, present, (and may there be) future: /salute
To NCSoft: Understand that you reap what you plant, and you cannot gain what you throw away.
Quote:
I'm pretty sure we are talking about the same guy. I was on Freedom and Mikey would be a good clue. I was a little leery at first because of his spamming requests in Pocket D, but I thought it couldn't be worse than my first run and I would still get Incarnate XP no matter what happened. I guess my point is that it is no different than joining any other PUG. You might get on a great team/league that is steamrolling or everything you could think of could go wrong. You won't know until you start and the worst it will cost you is the efficiency your reward/playing time.
|
Originally Posted by Myrdinn
If he is the one I think you all are referring to (the Mikey thing gives it away if on Freedom), the fellow is a pretty good egg. I get the feeling English isn't his first language, but he tries hard.
Setting up leagues for others to run and have a good time (whilst not realizing the affect of leaving said league before it starts) also would fit with this personality. He really does not mean harm. |
Okay guys, time to ease up a bit. This is getting silly and way, waaaayyyyy overblown. If the new leader don't want the star, speak up and pass it to someone who does know what they're doing. Honestly, it's really that simple. There are 24 people in BAF leagues and surely there will be at least 1 or 2 people that wants it. Passing the star is far less of a time consuming hassle than putting a league together from scratch. That much I can guarentee. Heck, when I'm in one of his leagues, I even volunteer sometimes.
Secondly, people barking different or confusing orders is really not that much of a concern for BAF or Lambda for that matter. For BAF, there are only a few *conventional* ways of beating it consistantly. The first phase of killing Warworks never change and neither does the third phase of door sitting/roamers taking out leaked runners. That only leaves 2 phases where things can go differently. The first variation is during the 2nd phase and that's just a simple decision of whether to pull NS to the tennis court or kill her where she spawns (99% of the teams pull her to court). The second variation can happen during the 4th phase and that involves whether to have a seperate ambush team. Whether to kill both AVs at the courts (a given if NS is already dead there). Or, splitting the leaguers into 2 seperate AV spawn point killing teams and a 3rd ambush team (very rarely used method).
I've said it before, BAF does not need an optimal team because it is not that difficult any longer. There are enough people that are 50+3 running around who have ran it to the ground already. In fact, if I join a PUG league, I would much prefer to have a leader who gives concise but clear instructions as opposed to an overbearing and micromanaging leader. Dare I say that as long as the league has a concensus on a strategy and actually pay attention, the leader is of minimal importance, along side the league's AT composition.
I know that all of the BAF runs on Justice I've led I would take pretty much anyone interested. Though I will prefer people from my Global friend list or global channels. and if I over invite I will explain my mistake nicely to the Last ones invited before kicking.
On Justice
Global @Desi Nova Twitter: @desi_nova Steam: Desi_nova. I don't do Xbox or PS3
When it comes down to it, griefing is based off of intent. I do not believe his intent is to cause a lack of fun for anyone. He does seem like a decent person, if perhaps a bit misguided. While the effect is many times a far less than optimal team without leadership, I don't think he realizes this is what happens. I just don't join his teams anymore or if I do, I figure I may as well step up and lead the thing.
You that has bin happening. Whole sections of the league getting cut off. With no explicable resin.
Eh, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that they were griefing. Ever heard of Hanlon's Razor?
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
I've been on one of these, Mickey (?) is trying to put together Mo BAF.
That's why he forms 2 teams (or 3 teams of 6) to fight Nightstar, Siege, and the Spawns.
The team of squishies is used to disable turrets.
Indeed, I ran my first and only MoBAF like that.
But I can see two ways people can feel grieved:
-You don't ever get the turret badge that way.
-Squishies don't get incarnate xp from kills and thus don't advance the unlocking of their incarnate slots
-Siege and Nightstar's team get xp only for the AV's, same comment as above.
A better way to distribute the teams would be to have like two scrappers in first two lines, two squishies in row 3 and 4, and so on, and to assign tasks to team members numbers, that way, every reward would be equaly distributed.
Never had an issue like that yet, Some people just can't do things right, If you are good enough and have the skills to lead a trial, go for it or don't bother leading if you going to drop out and let people down.
Never play another NcSoft game, If you feel pride for our game, then it as well, I Superratz am Proud of all of you Coh people, Love, Friendship will last for a lifetime.
Global:@Greenflame Ratz
Main Toons:Super Ratz, Burning B Radical, Green Flame Avenger, Tunnel Ratz, Alex Magnus
It was late, around 1 AM, when I hopped into Pkt D for a BAF. I got invited to one and was surprised to find 1 team full of scrappers and another full of tanks/brutes. My toon ended up in the squishy team of corrs, defs, doms and trollers. When it was full, the organizer gave some vague tasks for the teams and said, 'I'm out!'. He left the league. Folks decided to drop and the new leader tried to salvage the situation. While the new leader recruited, the original organizer starts forming another BAF.
It takes time to form BAF and people were very irate for waiting around for a poorly formed league.
Thankfully, the new leader reorganized and invited more support to replace the ones that left, so we were able to run successfully.
This happened on Freedom, btw, so if any of you notice a wacky league setup like the one described above, beware and make a note about the organizer in your notes.