I haven't had first hand experience with being an incarnate, but I believe such powers only work from Lv45 and above, otherwise the incarnate abilities including level shifts are turned off for the purpose of exemplar you down to the level of the team or 'force you're on.
But old content could also mean the high level 'force content like Statesman and Recluse. They technically do have difficulty options to make them harder so it's not like they can be too easy if you don't want them to. As of Issue 20 the highest level shift is around +3.
But then you also have to consider that being an Incarnate is transcending yourself to a higher league of power, at the end you're supposed to be capable of soloing several massively powerful AVs and giant monsters in the same around (a la future incarnate you when unlocking the Alpha slot).
Signature heroes and villains are already Lv54, the Incarnate system is a way for players to be just a epicy and signaturey as they are, and more!
Home server: Victory
Characters on: Victory & Virtue
My first 50(0)! 18/11/11
@Oneirohero
Quote:
Do you go often go back to wipe out greys in Perez Park when you're level 50?|
Originally Posted by Santorican
Do the gods have any plans for addressing old content being too easy now?
|
If not, why would anyone go back to wipe out the equivalent of greys at level 50+X?
The whole point of the incarnate system is to become more powerful (while having fun).
Increasing the difficulty of pre-incarnate content defeats this purpose.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
Quote:
There's a difficulty slider isn't there? When you can blow through +4x8 with no risk of dying, then complain.
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Originally Posted by Santorican
I love I20!!!!!! But I am beginning to wonder if the gods were crazy when they decided on some of these numbers for our incarnate powers. People are beginning to blow through old content like its a hot knife through butter. Is what we're going to have to face in the future that insane?
Do the gods have any plans for addressing old content being too easy now? |
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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Only when in the Incarnate Trials. Outside the Trials, +1 is as high as you go.
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Originally Posted by Oneirohero
As of Issue 20 the highest level shift is around +3.
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@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
Quote:
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Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
Do you go often go back to wipe out greys in Perez Park when you're level 50?
If not, why would anyone go back to wipe out the equivalent of greys at level 50+X? The whole point of the incarnate system is to become more powerful (while having fun). Increasing the difficulty of pre-incarnate content defeats this purpose. |
Because, unlike the Perez greys, the level 50 "greys" you're wiping out at level 50+ with your new shiny powers will drop Inf, IOs, Shards and Purples for you?
Agree with your last point though, upping old content like TFs or Radios would defeat the purpose of becoming Incarnate anyway (unless you allowed the Difficulty Level Slider to go up I suppose).
Quote:
Then they aren't "grey-equivalents" |
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Because, unlike the Perez greys, the level 50 "greys" you're wiping out at level 50+ with your new shiny powers will drop Inf, IOs, Shards and Purples for you?
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Joking aside, once you are an Incarnate you will want to blow through the old content at an increased speed, because you need to get tons of inf to craft more Incarnate stuff.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
Quote:
So... two issues ago?*|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
There's a difficulty slider isn't there? When you can blow through +4x8 with no risk of dying, then complain.
|
*I mean this from a strictly personal timeline sense. My dark tank was doing this two issues ago, but could have theoretically done it with the introduction of invention sets.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
It would be like having Superman go handle common thugs. There's Batman for that. |
Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
Do you go often go back to wipe out greys in Perez Park when you're level 50?
If not, why would anyone go back to wipe out the equivalent of greys at level 50+X? The whole point of the incarnate system is to become more powerful (while having fun). Increasing the difficulty of pre-incarnate content defeats this purpose. |
Quote:
I certainly hope not. |
Originally Posted by Santorican
Do the gods have any plans for addressing old content being too easy now?
|
It would be incredibly unfair to force a difficulty increase on the old level 45+ TFs just because Incarnates can have all their shiny new powers in it.
If they did that, those level 45-49 characters that are trying to run those things to...you know....level, are going to find that suddenly what was merely challenging is now impossible.
Basically, if you increase the difficulty because of Incarnates, you will completely screw over anyone who is NOT an Incarnate.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
If I ever feel a character of mine is "overpowered" in this game it will be a glorious change from constantly feeling underpowered.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
For those of us taking a LONG time (if ever) to get any incarnate powers beyond Alpha, I certainly wouldn't want the old content made any harder than the difficulty slider can already make it.
I'm also a little worried that my characters will not be able to get on or feel useful in some of the high-level content after a month or so when everyone else is maxed out. And if I start up my own TF's I'll end up with those maxed-out incarnates running my TF solo for me. It was bad enough running clueless in an IO world, it'll be worse with incarnates.
I hope I'm wrong but I'm seeing more low-level content and less high-level in my future.
Quote:
Then use Incarnate stuff to trick yourself out so you can kill them faster?|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
So... two issues ago?*
*I mean this from a strictly personal timeline sense. My dark tank was doing this two issues ago, but could have theoretically done it with the introduction of invention sets. |
I run my Scrapper on +4x8 too, but I am still at a decent risk of dying. Until I can jump into a mob and go make a sandwich, I'm not going to complain.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
Quote:
You haven't seen Dechs' tank in action, have you? |
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Then use Incarnate stuff to trick yourself out so you can kill them faster?
I run my Scrapper on +4x8 too, but I am still at a decent risk of dying. Until I can jump into a mob and go make a sandwich, I'm not going to complain. |
In most mob types he CAN jump in and go make a sandwich. And come back to find that his Death Shroud has killed the whole spawn while he is untouched.
My wife's tank has a similar build, and hers is just as tough.
Though he is mistaken on one count: He could NOT have done that at the introduction of IO sets. When IOs were first released Kinetic Combat only gave Lethal defense, and Eradication didn't exist yet. Since there wasn't a set that he could make extensive use of to get lots of E/N defense, anything that threw lots of energy damage would have slaughtered him at that difficulty (energy is Dark Armor's lowest resistance by a rather wide margin)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
The other problem with increasing difficulty is, right now at least, all the Task Forces have become much less popular because high levels are in Trials. If you hit 50 now it can be quite hard to find a pick up group to get Call of the Wells and such from TFoW. If you make the TF so hard that you HAVE to have incarnates to finish it then things will get really annoying.
I'm sure as time goes on people will start doing "charity" TFs just getting groups of people who need shards/wells together and helping them blow through the content quickly but you shouldn't have to REQUIRE it. It is much like old days when people used to heal and TP newbies around zones. It was nice but you could get through the zones without them.
----------------------------
You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
Quote:
Common suggestion re-stated: add in an Incarnate mode for all the old lvl 45+ content that you can OPTIONALLY turn on. But only if you have AT least ONE of the +1s in any of the three slots that give it. Allow the two new +1s to work only on the Incarnate Modes of these tfs. |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I certainly hope not.
It would be incredibly unfair to force a difficulty increase on the old level 45+ TFs just because Incarnates can have all their shiny new powers in it. If they did that, those level 45-49 characters that are trying to run those things to...you know....level, are going to find that suddenly what was merely challenging is now impossible. Basically, if you increase the difficulty because of Incarnates, you will completely screw over anyone who is NOT an Incarnate. |
Incarnate mode would bump every mob up to a minimum of lvl 54. Other options you could add is bumping every elite boss or boss that exists in the old content to AV level (that would make the ITF VERY interesting.
) Other options: cut the number of insp drops in half throughout the tf (not sure if they have the tech for this though). Also there are options NOW that you can set that can make stuff harder. I think no insp use or temp use are some. They could add that to Incarnate Modes also.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
Aura I love your incarnate mode option, it gets better every time I think about it. I dont know if the devs will ever do it, but it would add a bunch more i20 threads content to the mix with what seems little effort on thier part.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Common suggestion re-stated: add in an Incarnate mode for all the old lvl 45+ content that you can OPTIONALLY turn on. But only if you have AT least ONE of the +1s in any of the three slots that give it. Allow the two new +1s to work only on the Incarnate Modes of these tfs.
Incarnate mode would bump every mob up to a minimum of lvl 54. Other options you could add is bumping every elite boss or boss that exists in the old content to AV level (that would make the ITF VERY interesting. ) Other options: cut the number of insp drops in half throughout the tf (not sure if they have the tech for this though). Also there are options NOW that you can set that can make stuff harder. I think no insp use or temp use are some. They could add that to Incarnate Modes also. |
Incarnate mode:
level 45+ TFs only (ITF, Kahn, LGTF, STF, LRSF, COP, Cuda)
All mobs set to level 54.
All mobs drop threads instead of shards.
No temp powers.
New reward at the end is 1 astral merit instead of the alpha component (reward merits can still be selected instead).
Bots/Traps Guide for I19.5
RO Network
Quote:
Yeah your adjustments would work. To be fair I'm not the only one who came up with the idea. |
Originally Posted by Mephe
Aura I love your incarnate mode option, it gets better every time I think about it. I dont know if the devs will ever do it, but it would add a bunch more i20 threads content to the mix with what seems little effort on thier part.
Incarnate mode: level 45+ TFs only (ITF, Kahn, LGTF, STF, LRSF, COP, Cuda) All mobs set to level 54. All mobs drop threads instead of shards. No temp powers. New reward at the end is 1 astral merit instead of the alpha component (reward merits can still be selected instead). |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
There's a difficulty slider isn't there? When you can blow through +4x8 with no risk of dying, then complain.
|
Agreed! I have been on a few 45-50 level TFs where the leader bumped up the difficulty since we were all level 50(+1). Of course unless your the leader you can't FORCE anyone to increase that just to make you happy so I have also been on a lot where Elite Bosses showed up as YELLOW instead of PURPLE to me as well. Hey the INF was still good so what's the problem with feeling a little GOD like for a change?
Now when I get so powerful I join an APEX TF and step inside mission two and one shot Battle Maiden while standing in a purple patch of death then I am overpowered. LOL
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
Quote:
Unless your in game global is something other than @ClawsandEffect, I don't think I've had the pleasure of playing with you. So I have to ask, have you seen my tank in action?|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
You haven't seen Dechs' tank in action, have you?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
In most mob types he CAN jump in and go make a sandwich. And come back to find that his Death Shroud has killed the whole spawn while he is untouched.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
My wife's tank has a similar build, and hers is just as tough.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Though he is mistaken on one count: He could NOT have done that at the introduction of IO sets. When IOs were first released Kinetic Combat only gave Lethal defense, and Eradication didn't exist yet. Since there wasn't a set that he could make extensive use of to get lots of E/N defense, anything that threw lots of energy damage would have slaughtered him at that difficulty (energy is Dark Armor's lowest resistance by a rather wide margin)
|
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
I said I can't go make a sandwich, not that he can't. He's a Tank and I'm a Scrapper, so he should be tougher than me. I'd also be willing to bet I kill a whole heck of a lot faster than he does. Hence my comment: if you're happy with your survivability pick Incarnate abilities that help you kill faster.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
You haven't seen Dechs' tank in action, have you?
In most mob types he CAN jump in and go make a sandwich. And come back to find that his Death Shroud has killed the whole spawn while he is untouched. |
Besides, I did see Dechs' "Dark Armor sucks" video, and distinctly recall Dark Regeneration being used. Can't do that while making a sandwich. Can't jump into a mob of anything with significant defense debuffs and go make a sandwich either, since Dark Armor is vulnerable to cascading defense failure on an epic scale.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
At least with TF's and flashback arcs, you can use the different challenges to make things harder. If you find things too easy, bump it up to +4x8 with enemies buffed and if you're really feeling up for the challenge, set players debuffed too.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
Quote:
I share this concern, at least to the extent of "feel useful."|
Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
I'm also a little worried that my characters will not be able to get on or feel useful in some of the high-level content after a month or so when everyone else is maxed out. And if I start up my own TF's I'll end up with those maxed-out incarnates running my TF solo for me.
|
I do think there's a possibility non-Trial teams will become rare, especially level 50 teams, but at this point, it's only a possibility. Even if that happens, "rare" doesn't "nonexistent."
I'm more annoyed about the "Incarnates running everything solo for me" issue. I already feel like dead weight on a lot of teams, and it has nothing to do with my "skill" as a player. I sometimes have experiences where I zone into a map to find someone else has rushed to the end and killed the final AV solo, simply because of powerset choice and a few judiciously chosen IO's. And I have this experience on defense-capped characters and permadom dominators! Oh, well. At least it can't be any worse than it already is, right?
"Bombarding the CoH/V fora with verbosity since January, 2006"
Djinniman, level 50 inv/fire tanker, on Victory
-and 40 others on various servers
A CoH Comic: Kid Eros in "One Light"
Quote:
You can put it on auto.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Besides, I did see Dechs' "Dark Armor sucks" video, and distinctly recall Dark Regeneration being used. Can't do that while making a sandwich.
|
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
Yeah, but that's just lazy. I'ma gonna sick a pack of PPD Kheldians at you just for being so lazy. |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
You can put it on auto.
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
I love I20!!!!!! But I am beginning to wonder if the gods were crazy when they decided on some of these numbers for our incarnate powers. People are beginning to blow through old content like its a hot knife through butter. Is what we're going to have to face in the future that insane?
Do the gods have any plans for addressing old content being too easy now?
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread