Discussion: City of Heroes Issue 20: Incarnates is now live!
By
Agonist_NA,
Posted on: 2011-04-05 11:18 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
Personally, I think we should boycott all TFs until the devs dial down the lethality of these new incarnate TFs. Constantly faceplanting - sometimes without even getting a chance to hit something - and failing TFs is not fun for a lot of people.
If the devs are trying to entice 'WOW babies' by ramping up the difficulty for them, then they will chase away more players then they get. They need to stop the madness.
Global: @All-American Teen
70 toons across 11 servers.
Top hero -All-American Teen lvl 50 eng/invul Tanker (01:10 EST; 1/24/09)
Top villian -Poisoned Plum lvl 30 robots/devices Mastermind
man everytime there is an update w/ the new launcher i get "error access to path denied" and it takes several hours to fix, bummed that i haven't been able to get on i20 all day. anyone else get that problem?
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Are you sure it's the box? I used to run on a 5 year old laptop and could play at "Performance" (one above minimum). After it died, I got a new laptop and now I can easily play in "Quality" (one below Ultra) and it's got one of those "mobility" GPUs.|
Originally Posted by Michael Cullen
Well congratulations, CoH is now unplayable for me.
I've been running on minimal since day 1 of coming back after being absent since... oh I don't know, Issue 6, and since i20 went live, not even minimal is enough to give me more than around 5 fps. |
If you've got a technical issue, try the Gameplay / Technical Issues & Bugs forum. I guess if your box really just blows, you might not have any resolution, but anything made in the last 10 years ought to play OK at minimum.
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I haven't had any problems with any of the i19 stuff lately. I tried one of the trials for i20 and failed - oh well. This is how it goes. I don't think anything is too tough on this game if you think it over and try it a few times (having a properly slotted team helps too).|
Originally Posted by Dave_67
Personally, I think we should boycott all TFs until the devs dial down the lethality of these new incarnate TFs. Constantly faceplanting - sometimes without even getting a chance to hit something - and failing TFs is not fun for a lot of people.
If the devs are trying to entice 'WOW babies' by ramping up the difficulty for them, then they will chase away more players then they get. They need to stop the madness. |
Hey Golden Girl! Nice work on the cover and comic!
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Yeah it's definitely the box. Well, it's more a case of the fact the game is poorly coded, but the hardware doesn't help. It's an Athlon X2 QL-64, 3GB of DDR, with a Barracuda 7200rpm system drive. The only real issue hardware-wise is the ATI HD 3200 integrated GPU, but even then, that's not actually the problem; GPU utilization is at maybe 40%; it's the CPU which is killing things. 90% utilization when standing in an unpopulated zone with no enemies on screen, you can just imagine how bad things get as soon as you introduce a few critters or players.|
Originally Posted by gameboy1234
Are you sure it's the box? I used to run on a 5 year old laptop and could play at "Performance" (one above minimum). After it died, I got a new laptop and now I can easily play in "Quality" (one below Ultra) and it's got one of those "mobility" GPUs.
If you've got a technical issue, try the Gameplay / Technical Issues & Bugs forum. I guess if your box really just blows, you might not have any resolution, but anything made in the last 10 years ought to play OK at minimum. |
I need to upgrade anyway because Lightroom crawls on here as well, which I use for my photography, but that probably won't be for a while, so hopefully the developers can fix things before then, otherwise I don't really see any other option than to disable my account
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Agreed. I spent 3 hours, most of it just trying to get a team going, as people would quit after one formed, trying to complete one of the new trials. Did two lambdas, and had 2 fails. At times my brute felt like a level ten blaster. And fighting the same enemies as the last 2 task forces is getting old already. Logged on again at night, and couldn't even get a run going to try again. Pretty disappointed in this issue so far.
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Originally Posted by Dave_67
Personally, I think we should boycott all TFs until the devs dial down the lethality of these new incarnate TFs. Constantly faceplanting - sometimes without even getting a chance to hit something - and failing TFs is not fun for a lot of people.
If the devs are trying to entice 'WOW babies' by ramping up the difficulty for them, then they will chase away more players then they get. They need to stop the madness. |
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Personally, and as person that likes easy, I can’t believe I’m going to say this, but I disagree.|
Originally Posted by Dave_67
Personally, I think we should boycott all TFs until the devs dial down the lethality of these new incarnate TFs. Constantly faceplanting - sometimes without even getting a chance to hit something - and failing TFs is not fun for a lot of people.
If the devs are trying to entice 'WOW babies' by ramping up the difficulty for them, then they will chase away more players then they get. They need to stop the madness. |
Speaking personally of course…
As a L1, I had a really easy, like stupid easy time fighting other L1 mobs.
As a L20, I had to pay some attention fighting L20s, but it wasn’t bad.
As a L50, some L50 mobs still gave me a lot of trouble.
And, as a L50+1, fighting L51 mobs was harder than me going against 50s as a 50.
For the last 2, it was fighting groups of L50 in RWZ as a 50 vs L51 mobs as a L51. Every level, the “even” fights are tougher, at least for me.
Ergo, bringing back to the new TF, it’d be a disappointment to pass on the first go for me. This is how I see my personal progression.
Faceplant on BAF and/or Lambda about 4x each. I get about 25% ish of a slot per failed attempt and 5-10 threads. This opens up both slots.
After 4 more times each, I’ve opened up the other two slots, and, assuming I fail at every other part of the trial, I still have enough threads to fill a few slots.
By then, I get to actually SEE the end Boss, who promptly toasts me.
I rinse and repeat till I have Commons in all of them. By then, it would be bad luck if I didn’t join at least ONE purple out League or Excellent Player League. That gives me a win, and, well, whatever the merits / rewards you get from winning. I haven’t even researched a win, that’s how far ahead I see it.
Why do I think this is normal? Because this content has to tide us over until I21, and that’s assuming that I21 are the next 4, and not QoL, Lowbie content, Praetoria L21+ (making the latter up) or whatever.
And, if you look at the power ramp up that one Very Rare can give you, let alone 4 Very Rares… if we could win regularly with just Alpha, we’d be bored to tears with VR x5.
These are MY numbers, not the devs, but, assuming 3 months between issues…
The Hardcore Raiders will have VR x4 before half way to the next issue.
The Frequent Raiders will barely hit VR x4 at the next issue.
The Occasional Raider will hit either 1 VR or a few Rare at the next issue.
The Classic TF Master (ITF Shard run) might hit Uncommons x4 if lucky.
The Regular Solo-er, might, if can take x8, hit unlock x4, Common x4 if plays a lot.
The Casual player might unlock ONE slot, and slot ONE common by next issue.
Hate to say it but sounds about right. Especially since there is nothing new for the Casual Player to use these new powers on. Now, if there’s “Incarnate Group” or “Incarnate Solo” content coming, then yeah, those (made up by me) numbers need to change.
But, right now, the only mobs that need those powers are in those raids. And, as per most raid system, you need the average to faceplant, a lot, or people tear through the content and get bored.
As a personal example, I loved the 4 Faultline arcs, but I tore through them in a day, then went “now what?” for a long long while.
Now, I’m not totally defending the system. The fact that it’s “Incarnate Level Shift” as opposed to “True Level Shift” means they don’t want old content to become obsolete, which is definitely a departure from the MMO norm. In EverQuest, you got 5-10 new levels, 5-10 new levels worth of solo, team and raid content, but then the old stuff goes grey. And that’s NORMAL in the industry.
The fact that CoH apparently doesn’t want a grey LRSF or STF seems to mean they don’t have a lot new content to replace it, and that’s a concern to me. I was really looking forward to a grey LRSF/STF, i.e. old content going grey, as per any other game, but instead, for me, they added raiding, which I don’t like but can deal with, yet don’t grey out the old, and that’s the worst of both worlds for me. I’ll deal, but it’s kinda MEH.
So, in summary, the ramp up of difficulty of TF/Raids is about right for me personally, but there’s a surprising hesitancy to obsolete old content, which implies, at least to me, there’s not a lot of new stuff coming to replace it. And 2 trials for Incarnate slots 2 through 5… is worrisome. 3 months (ish) between issues is standard, and that’s a long time to play only 2 TFs.
Well.. just did 3 back to back failed Lamda Trails.
/flame on
2 Letters sum up the experience rather well for me.
B S
Apparently no Aggro cap
Mobs that will litteraly chase you across the map
Tankers being 1 shotted
Tankers being put down by a hand full of mobs (makes you feel realy incarnate when you see minions rip a tanker apart... let alone all the squishes in the team)
Elec Tanker being End Drained... yeah figure that one out.
Alpha Slot disabled during trial (I bugged them.. and pray its just a bug)
Being lucky if group gets 1 temp power during middle part, having to
Aggro issues with attack one group completely out of range of main group and gaining aggro.
Swarm factor... 1 mess up and your basicly done .
More Debuffs being thrown at the players then a ITF all Defender/controller team.
Elite boss Warwalker... basicly unkillable with non-debuffs (seriously.. what with that huge heal it has??)
I seriously would rather Tank 4 Enraged Bobcats + the 2 Goliths and Neruon. Why? ... it would be easyer O_o
Now with all the negative... I do really like the concept of the Lamb Trial. First part fine.. second part fine (if you fix the Elite Boss). Third part not bad... but very very rough to most team formats. Could use some work...
FInal part has many of the issues above.
I wanna like the trial.. but as of RIght now. I hate it... and to think Im going to be forced to do these trials a good 32+ times if I want to further my incarnate (shard method is a joke so dont even go thier).
/flame off
Prehaps the biggest fail!!>...... Not letting players use the Commander's Armor when making characters 
I think this trial does have a lot of potential. Its just not thier yet, and needs work.
Main: Praetor Imperium Elec/SS/Mu
I would say that it's probably expected to fail for a while, but even if you do you're still working towards your new slots/incarnate shifts. After you're all decked out it will probably get easier... I'm in the lag boat too though, I ran a lambda earlier just to see if I could and I was in powerpoint mode the whole time.
No new costumes Gemini is not happy.
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I succeeded on a PuG for the BAF, and it was only the 2nd time I'd tried it. We have 2 full teams. About 2/3 of us had NEVER tried it yet. And this is the one considered to be the most difficult, as both Nightstar and Siege had to die within 10 seconds of each other.|
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Agreed. I spent 3 hours, most of it just trying to get a team going, as people would quit after one formed, trying to complete one of the new trials. Did two lambdas, and had 2 fails. At times my brute felt like a level ten blaster. And fighting the same enemies as the last 2 task forces is getting old already. Logged on again at night, and couldn't even get a run going to try again. Pretty disappointed in this issue so far.
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And this was on the first day of release. And not a weekend with a lot of players. And we started at about midnight eastern time.
So hang in there. Yah, it's tough. But once you get the formula, it'll be easier. Like all the other new challenges. And in 2 weeks at the most, you'll be hearing "Speed BAF Trial starting! PST!"
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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You've captured my feelings exactly. People were complaining about grind before? Boy oh boy oh boy!
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Originally Posted by Fiery_Redeemer
These are MY numbers, not the devs, but, assuming 3 months between issues The Hardcore Raiders will have VR x4 before half way to the next issue. The Frequent Raiders will barely hit VR x4 at the next issue. The Occasional Raider will hit either 1 VR or a few Rare at the next issue. The Classic TF Master (ITF Shard run) might hit Uncommons x4 if lucky. The Regular Solo-er, might, if can take x8, hit unlock x4, Common x4 if plays a lot. The Casual player might unlock ONE slot, and slot ONE common by next issue. Hate to say it but sounds about right. Especially since there is nothing new for the Casual Player to use these new powers on. Now, if theres Incarnate Group or Incarnate Solo content coming, then yeah, those (made up by me) numbers need to change. |
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
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Seconded. These should be difficult enough to where we can't brainlessly beat them, at least at the beginning. Last night I did two and a half PUGs:|
Originally Posted by Zubenelgenubi
I succeeded on a PuG for the BAF, and it was only the 2nd time I'd tried it. We have 2 full teams. About 2/3 of us had NEVER tried it yet. And this is the one considered to be the most difficult, as both Nightstar and Siege had to die within 10 seconds of each other.
And this was on the first day of release. And not a weekend with a lot of players. And we started at about midnight eastern time. So hang in there. Yah, it's tough. But once you get the formula, it'll be easier. Like all the other new challenges. And in 2 weeks at the most, you'll be hearing "Speed BAF Trial starting! PST!" |
1. A PUG BAF with a total of 12 players. We had a weird combination of lots of tanks and no support/deubuff. BUT got 15% of Judgment, 4 threads and Astral merits and max debt!!! Learned how the trial worked though, and have plans for the next run.
2. A PUG Lambda - we so totally squeaked this one out. Total chaos in getting the temp powers, people not knowing that they had them, etc. And yet, due to great leadership (and weapon crates) we pulled it out and SUCCESS!
2.5 A Virtue TF channel-assembled group for Lambda with some PUGs in there. Totally nailed it - we were unstoppable and Marauder cried like a baby.
I find the trials fun and different. I like the ITF but thank goodness, this is NOT another ITF!
That alpha level-shift comes in handy too by the way.
After one run, I could lead a Lambda. It will take more time for BAF, but it will become like ITF soon enough.
Keep plugging away! The feeling of success is like your second lvl 50!
Personally, I'm worried that the new trials - along with the Alpha Slot trial - will be much like the Halloween Banners event. For the last two years, I've seen almost no action towards the end of the Halloween event, because just about everyone who did the banners at the start refuses to help out after they've gotten their goodies because it is so tough and a slog-fest, with frustration levels set to maximum.
I understand that the devs want us to go a certain way with this new content. However, didn't they want to see things go a certain way with PVP, AE, etc. and then have to scramble to fix holes and exploits when things didn't go the way they wanted? That's also what could happen here.
Global: @All-American Teen
70 toons across 11 servers.
Top hero -All-American Teen lvl 50 eng/invul Tanker (01:10 EST; 1/24/09)
Top villian -Poisoned Plum lvl 30 robots/devices Mastermind
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AKA grind grind grind because even getting it on one character will be a pain.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It's been a while, but CoH finally has an endgame system
 |
Sigh.
Also, yay for the buff to Mastermind Dark Miasma. Because we weren't the easily best choice already. Unjustifiable.
What shall claim a Sky Kings' Ransom?
PPD & Resistance Epic Archetypes
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This issue doesn't feel like an update to me. Seriously, where are the costume pieces?!?! I guess we don't get them unless we have to pay for them!
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Originally Posted by TheJazMan
Wow. I hope everyone loves Praetoria because you get SWAMPED with 'em in here! The same enemy over and over with a Praetoria is invading theme....I knew it was coming but to experience it....wow. Too much.
Also...seriously? No new costume pieces? |
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You are not alone!!!
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Originally Posted by ZNRGY_XERONUS
This issue doesn't feel like an update to me. Seriously, where are the costume pieces?!?! I guess we don't get them unless we have to pay for them!
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So how soon til BAF is nerfed? After all its a "FAST" Trial just like KHTF and EDEN. Are we going to have to drop shards, and the new merits for some even newer uber merit system? Just like we dropped recipe pool drops for reward merits? After all its Risk vs. Reward....
AE farms are harder than BAF, Hell KHTF is harder than BAF.
BAF is 3 Fights! Really? And we have to grind it over and over on multiple toons because 2 new incarnate slots are tied to it.
No new power sets, no costume pieces, not even an emote. Just more grind, more new merits, and more grind.
But the bugs are a nice change.....
I just wish I could get more than one trial a night. And those have to be done with server channel. Queue seems useless.
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One trail? I havn't been able to get on any the last two nights. The queue doesn't do anything (at least in off peak time). I was hoping it would at least be a cross-server queue system.|
Originally Posted by Jetpack
I just wish I could get more than one trial a night. And those have to be done with server channel. Queue seems useless.
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Normally there is only around 5 to 10 level 50's on my server at the time I play (more maybe hidden offcourse). I would be lucky to see any TF started during my normal time, maybe I get to see about one a month.
I was luckly enought to have a "sick" day on Monday and managed to get on 5 trails during prime US time (all failed but where still fun), but I won't be able to do that again for a few months
I guess I could try moving to the two big servers, but I have too much to give up for that (SG, 30+ characters etc).
I'll just have to look forward to any weekends that I manage to get free I guess.
Kudos for our public reps for keeping the lines open. Greatly appreciate that.
I'm looking forward to the wrinkles being ironed out, I plan to dominate these trials.
All your threads are belong to Mr. H
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
i did a few lamda trials On the first night and got the Interface unlocked at the end of the night. Yesterday I tried with the same char in queue stat and I couldn't get in. A big loss for the casual player in my very humble opinion.
I switch server and here I didn't queue. Then i got on a few BAF's with a bit of selling i opened up the destiny slot. After those few BAF's peiple started to drop out and I went back to the previous server and old character and did a Lambda and BAF.
Although I do enjoy the trials, some parts I find very hard. I personally hate the running brainwashed praetorians part if the BAf trial (no problems on the previous parts of that trial) and failed there each time. Nor did i finish the Lambda trial as of yet.
Aside the hard part I also find it grindy. Doing the same two trials over and over and over again will bore me especially if i keep failing. But I got one slot unlocked (still have to gather threads to fill that first tier slot (20 threads to make an component seriously?). And no I don't every new shiny immediately on all my chars. But I got one server full of other chars i want to play and I got limited time to play. At a certain I was thinking this is atrting to feel like work... And that;s not why i play this game.
Having written all this, I do think that it will get easier, more slots unlock and get filled, making it less difficult. And startegies are formed so it is easier as well.
I rememder doing the Apex TF the first few times and thinking I'll never get the hang of it, and now my Alpha slot is filled I find it pretty easy. I know how to avoid the blue patches..
Something similar will happen with the Tf as well. I just hope more will come... and that we have enough players willing to play one! (That cross server option seems wonderfull then).
So you could say right now I am ambivalent towards the trials. Hmm still have to do the new TF's! So little time and so much to do in the game! ( I guess that is my basic complaint)
I think I will find soem rest once I have unlocked all the slots on ONE Char! ;-)
Still haven't been on a successful run. Difficult is one thing, but when experienced teams routinely fail, I'd call that excessive.
One thing I really despise is being reliant on temp powers. Needing the acid to close the doors isn't too bad, but needing the grenades to defeat marauder is lame, imo. Especially if you run out, and/or some teamates don't seem to know where to find them to pass them to the designated grenade guy. It would be one thing if they made it easier to defeat him, but requiring them really makes the fight gimmicky and frustrating.
The teaming que is a complete joke. I have yet to have it work for me, and on one try I waited for over an hour. You can put the claimed 3-4 min wait time listing back where you pulled them.
Which brings up another problem, it takes a long time to get a team together. Should be interesting to see how much harder that becomes when the new shine wears off. I would suggest that when designing task forces, allow for much smaller teams with the option, not requirement, to create large ones. Put a carrot out for large teams by improving drops for larger teams.
Lots of pluses and minuses in this issue.
Minuses.
Increased the amount of grind in the by an insane amount. As long as you can't trade shards/merits/Hero Villain merits/Astral merits/Empyrean Merits/Threads at all, I can't see indulging my altitis further. Buying new slots just no longer seems sensible. I am going to have to narrow my focus from the 60 or so active characters I have to maybe 5 or 6, and go from playing on 6 servers to likely just one. Upside for me, is I won't be buying more character slots for a long while.
New taskforces still seem to be very much in the punish squishies mode. They aren't a walk in the park for armored characters but they are exceptionally nasty for unarmored characters. On the plus side at least no mobs with extreme amounts of mezzing attacks were included in either Lambda or BAF. Endless spawns of Malta in Tin Mage were very unwelcome. Lambda seems very tilted towards teams of well armored characters. The need to get the temp powers quickly and gain time doing so really favors teams that can split up as much as possible.
The size requirements of the new trials seems very problematic. So far the primary determinant of success or failure for these looks like weather you can put together a full team of reasonably competent people. If you can get the max number for the trials you have a reasonable chance at success. If you are short your chances decrease significantly. I play mostly on the smaller servers and I can't see this being good after the initial rush. On the smaller servers I can't recall the last time I saw a C.o.P. advertised and things like Hamidon raids are events well scheduled in advance. Once the bugs are worked out the league/turnstile/teleporter system should help but how much ?
Pluses.
The new task force and strike force are fun and inclusive. The 20-40 range will make putting together teams easy and the content seems well put together. The unlock mechanic for Mortimer is a nice change of pace. the rewards are a little unbalanced to the favor of the villains but that is minor seeing as the rewards for almost all the villain content is too low compared to hero content.
The league system really shows promise, but it still seems too buggy to judge.
The I20 trailer I think shows a draw of Nightstar and updated model for Siege?
Maria Jenkins arc still have the old model.