I give in - Inventions knockback protection
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-04-04 14:33 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
I tried to make this obvious: I'm not telling you to get into optimization. I'm not talking about covering weaknesses or closing holes. I'm just saying to slot your IOs like they're multi aspect SOs. Ignore the set bonuses entirely. You don't care if you have them, much less what they are. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
1. I don't know what I want, or more specifically, what I'm supposed to want. Optimization tends to focus on plugging up holes in characters, whereas I'm just fine with characters having obvious weaknesses and obvious strengths as distinct from each other.
|
Two accuracy SOs is usually overkill in an attack power. One accuracy IO and one Accuracy/Damage IO is about the same amount of accuracy, but you're getting some extra damage you didn't have before. If you were to then add three damage/endurance/recharge IOs from different sets into one power, you'd be amazed how many SOs that's equivalent to, and it's been done in five slots total.
I'm just offering a suggestion here. You don't have to go for optimization. You don't have to care about set bonuses. You don't have to worry about a "build that will never be finished." You just have to know that every single IO you put into a build makes it better than the day before.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Like I said - I would if we had multi-aspect commons. But with prices, levels and rarity, Sets are just not something I want to get into. Just snagging knockback protection is a big enough step for me for the moment, even if it's not a big step at all.
And believe me - I appreciate your advise. I don't want to come off as ungrateful. But I've just had this conversation many times before, and people as accepting of my stance.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
I had 1 Steadfast in my DA tanker starting around 38th level or so for the same reason as you - tired of getting knocked back all the time and tired of having to run to the SG empowerment station to keep it from happening.
With mag 4 protection the things that could still knock me down (this is from my bad memory) were Fake Nemesis, several EB's, the Phantasms from Carnie Master Illusionists, Longbow Wardens with energy blast... stuff like that. It wasn't terribly common.
I have 3 IO's for 12 now mostly so I could help tank Hami. I usually only get knocked down by AV's now, specifically Nemesis but a few others as well.
The reason I went Steadfast and Karma is because they are cheap. They don't show up in the merit vendors because they top out at 30th level so you have to move the slider to 30. I know you have a hangup with not having 50's in all the slots but they only cost 75 merits or 1 A-Merit.
Quote:
ParagonWiki says neither Steadfast nor Karma are buyable with Alignment Merits. I haven't actually checked the B.O.T.L.E.R. yet, so I could be wrong.
|
Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
I know you have a hangup with not having 50's in all the slots but they only cost 75 merits or 1 A-Merit.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
I know you like seeing the number 50, but DO NOT DO THIS! When you exemplar, the IO will stop providing knockback protection. A level 10 KB protection IO will function all the way down to level 7, where as a level 50 will function down to level 47...|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
2. I like seeing the number 50 on a level 50 build. I like all of my enhancements to say level 50, including BotZ if I go for it, so that's likely what I'll do. I already snagged a level 10 Steadfast Protection thing and I'm on my way to make it now, but I'll swap that out at level 50 (or, more likely, at level 47). Will likely stick it into Temperature Protection. |
If you can get over the number 50, try to socket all level 10s for these type of IO.
Quote:
He doesn't exemplar. ever. and likes having more excuses not to do so.
|
Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
I know you like seeing the number 50, but DO NOT DO THIS! When you exemplar, the IO will stop providing knockback protection. A level 10 KB protection IO will function all the way down to level 7, where as a level 50 will function down to level 47...
If you can get over the number 50, try to socket all level 10s for these type of IO. |
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
I have used these on a number of characters and have never needed more than 1. If you are planning to be SuperTank I suppose you won't ever get knocked down but even with 1 it is quite rare.
----------------------------
You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
Quote:
Ah weird. The wiki is probably right. I haven't actually checked but I haven't found any other normal IO's I wanted that I couldn't buy with A-Merits. Sorry for the mis-information.
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
ParagonWiki says neither Steadfast nor Karma are buyable with Alignment Merits. I haven't actually checked the B.O.T.L.E.R. yet, so I could be wrong.
|
Alignment Merit cost is determined directly by Reward Merit cost: just divide by 100 and round down. Any Recipes that cost less than 100 Reward Merits (such as the Steadfast Protection and Karma Knockback Protection ones) are not available for Alignment Merit purchase.
This means not all Rare Recipes can be purchased with Alignment Merits, and also means that a select few Uncommon Recipes can.
Quote:
You are correct A-Merits are only for Rare Recipes. Steadfast and Karmas are Uncommon, but not rare. If you notice you don't have Red Fortune or Crushing Impacts for A-Merits for the same reason.
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
ParagonWiki says neither Steadfast nor Karma are buyable with Alignment Merits. I haven't actually checked the B.O.T.L.E.R. yet, so I could be wrong.
|
@Blood Beret(2)Twitter
I am a bad speeler, use poorer grammar, and am a frequent typoist.
MA ArcID: 1197
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. Winston Churchill
Steadfast Protection: Resistance/+3% Global Defense is available for Alignment Merit purchase and is Uncommon.
Quote:
Actually, he specifically made the knockback animation while hovering take less time than it normally takes if you are on the ground. I'm pretty sure I tested this to be true back then, although I never tried to figure out the precise numbers both ways.
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I know BABs made aerial knockback equal ground knockback in terms of length, but this seems to have been shortened thereafter, since aerial knockback at least FEELS to take slightly shorter than ground-based one, or at least doesn't feel like it has such a huge pause after the tumble.
|
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
It's rare or uncommon depending on level.|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Steadfast Protection: Resistance/+3% Global Defense is available for Alignment Merit purchase and is Uncommon.
|
No, I don't know why that is either.
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I thought Knockup was just Knockback aimed in a different direction?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arilou
I thought it had to do with "strength" of the knock?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I'm pretty sure knockbakc and knockup are the same effect as far as stats are concerned. Knockback and knockup effects are both resisted by knockback resistance and negated by knockback protection.
|
Knockdown is not a separate effect: its a variation of knockback where knockback magnitude is less than 0.75: knockdown has a throw distance of zero, but still causes knock. But Knockback and Knockup are two completely different effects.
Off the top of my head, I cannot think of anything that has or offers protection to KB and not KU or vice versa, so in practice protection to one is tantamount to protection from the other. But they are not the same effect.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
As I remember his feedback on the issue, what he'd done was made aerial knockback root for a time equal to the "getting up" animation of ground knockback. This was still said to be faster overall, since it didn't factor in the time spent flying backwards, which could sometimes be significant. The logic given at the time was that Hover was never meant to serve as knockback protection, and was still better at it than standing on the ground anyway.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Actually, he specifically made the knockback animation while hovering take less time than it normally takes if you are on the ground. I'm pretty sure I tested this to be true back then, although I never tried to figure out the precise numbers both ways.
|
That said, I feel the "knockback time" in Hover has gotten less now than it was at the time of the change, if by a very small amount. There's much less dead air after being knocked back while Hovering, at the very least.
Either way, it's still superior to ground knockback as you barely move and take less time to recover, so characters with only mag 4 protection will still not be in too much danger even against enemies who do punch through that.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
I have rarely used IO's for knockback, then again, not a lot of characters I have use Flight. Acrobatics only requires 1 slot and is 9 points of knockback protection 
Combat Kangaroos, Justice Server. First 50's
Jirra Roo Plant/Storm/Stone/Musculature Controller
Combat Kangaroo Rifle/Energy/Mace/Spiritual Blaster
Kung Fu Kangaroo Martial Arts/Reflexes/Body/Spiritual Scrapper
Tribal Arc Shield/Elec/Mu/Spiritual Tanker
Quote:
It's always uncommon, regardless of level. It costs 125 Reward Merits to purchase, and thus is divisible by 100 (rounded down), and thus is available via Alignment Merits.
|
Originally Posted by Arilou
It's rare or uncommon depending on level.
No, I don't know why that is either. |
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
|
There is one very good reason for buying a BOTZ at level 50. They are dirt cheap last time I looked. Pretty much because they are useless once you exemp down and random reward rolls get em and want to unload em.
But still anybody that has played this game as long as samuel should have billions of inf sitting around right? Unless they are a market luddite that hasnt sold off the extra junk lying around for huge cash and prizes... "cough"
I think I got a level 30 karma that I crafted for like 1 or 2 mil the other week... practically giving these things away!
Bots/Traps Guide for I19.5
RO Network
Quote:
Agreed. I have at least seven of each kind of kb IO mostly due to the RNG loves to give me them.
|
Originally Posted by Mephe
There is one very good reason for buying a BOTZ at level 50. They are dirt cheap last time I looked. Pretty much because they are useless once you exemp down and random reward rolls get em and want to unload em.
........ I think I got a level 30 karma that I crafted for like 1 or 2 mil the other week... practically giving these things away! |
Elec/Cold Troller AV/Pylon/GM/TF/SF Soloing Antics
everytime...he gets me everytime.... DAMN U BOOMIE
-- _Ilr_
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Quote:
Indeed. I've always hated it, myself. I don't level these characters up and get all of their powers in order to play them without said powers. I'd exemp down without a second thought if I could keep all of my abilities (and with that in mind, I'll freely exemp down 5 levels below my current level).
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
1. I don't intend to exemplar. Ever for any reason under any circumstances. HATE doing it, and the more I can make my build incapable of exemplaring, the more excuse I'll have not to do it. For this reason, a level 50 BotZ is the perfect excuse.
|
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Quote:
This much I'll give you - I have no problem exemplaring down to a point where I don't lose powers AND don't lose enhancement effectiveness. I forget what the formulas for that are, but I believe exemplaring below 30 starts eating into enhancement percentages.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Indeed. I've always hated it, myself. I don't level these characters up and get all of their powers in order to play them without said powers. I'd exemp down without a second thought if I could keep all of my abilities (and with that in mind, I'll freely exemp down 5 levels below my current level).
|
It's really not a question of principle on this one, not for me. I don't have any moral or ethical qualms with exemplaring. I just do not want to lose powers that I already have. It's one thing to be too low level to have a power in the first place. It's quite another to have a power and then lose access to it. Especially since I get used to nice powers VERY fast.
No exemplaring for me
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Sam,
I only have 4 point of protection and I don't have any clear recolection of being knocked back by anything. I probably have, but it's so rare I can't remember a specific.
A good idea might be to slot one. Play for a few days. If you get any knockback due to what you normally, do, you'll know it. Then slot two. Repeat.
I've never slotted more than one.