Ban Zoning


Aggelakis

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
However, you seem to be stating not just the suggestion that unnecessary zoning should be removed, but the stronger statement that zoning is never necessary, and therefore it should always be removed.
No, not really. If it sounded like that, it's not what I meant. My OP even states a few instances where zoning makes sense, and goes on to mostly call out when zoning happens for no reason (especially when a mission has no set location and can just be wherever).


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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU View Post
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Posted

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Originally Posted by Blood_Beret View Post
They even tried to correct that by make 2 of them into psuedo hazard zones (Hollows and Faultline).
Um...

The hollows has pretty much always been a hazard zone. Still is.
Faultline was an unused trial zone. For all intents and purposes, a hazard zone. Now it's more story focused.
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So the Next time you see a post that asks for more Zones "just for one side" vote no. Co-Op zones add expansion.
No. No more co-op zones, especially the way they get written for villains in most cases. And yes, redside DOES need more zones - hopefully ones that don't look like trash heaps in the middle of the ocean.


 

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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
Um...

The hollows has pretty much always been a hazard zone. Still is.
Faultline was an unused trial zone. For all intents and purposes, a hazard zone. Now it's more story focused.
I think they mean the opposite. They were hazard/trial zones before, but now they're treated slightly more like real zones. But they still aren't connected to trams (although Faultline is connected to the D).


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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU View Post
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Posted

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Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
No, not really. If it sounded like that, it's not what I meant. My OP even states a few instances where zoning makes sense, and goes on to mostly call out when zoning happens for no reason (especially when a mission has no set location and can just be wherever).
Well, sort of:

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The only time zoning is super necessary is when the story calls for it (if it's specifically taking place in a certain location, in which case the missions should mostly all be taking place there) or if you're taking to an NPC (which is mostly a waste of time).
What concerned me is that you sounded like you were saying even when it makes sense to be in a particular zone, it never makes sense for an arc to be in more than one.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
Um...

The hollows has pretty much always been a hazard zone. Still is.
Faultline was an unused trial zone. For all intents and purposes, a hazard zone. Now it's more story focused.
Hazard Zones have far larger spawns than normal. This is no longer the case in these zones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
No. No more co-op zones, especially the way they get written for villains in most cases. And yes, redside DOES need more zones - hopefully ones that don't look like trash heaps in the middle of the ocean.
Redside just needs some clean up done. Make Archanos can take a tip from the Praetorians and make cleaning droids. It does not need more zones.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
What concerned me is that you sounded like you were saying even when it makes sense to be in a particular zone, it never makes sense for an arc to be in more than one.

Missions in other zones, okay if it's not every mission (Skyway>Steel>Talos>Atlas>Steel> Skyway), talkies in other zones **** that hand me a telephone directory or something.


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Originally Posted by Blood_Beret View Post
Redside just needs some clean up done. Make Archanos can take a tip from the Praetorians and make cleaning droids. It does not need more zones.
No, one of the things I *like* about blueside is that I can take wholly separate paths from 1-50 - arcs and zones. Redside, if you add more contacts, just feels more cluttered.

New zones would be nice there.


 

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A few none Arachnos islands would be nice.


Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

 

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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
A few none Arachnos islands would be nice.
Speaking of which, I always thought Croatoa would make a good co-op zone. Inbetween the occasional team-up missions you could also have redside-focused arcs where you work with the Red Caps and Tuatha to spread mayhem. It wouldn't be the same sort of "everyone just works together and does good stuff okay" type of co-op stuff that we've been getting. You'd have heroic, villainous, and co-operative missions all in one area.

Though we're getting off topic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU View Post
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
Speaking of which, I always thought Croatoa would make a good co-op zone. Inbetween the occasional team-up missions you could also have redside-focused arcs where you work with the Red Caps and Tuatha to spread mayhem. It wouldn't be the same sort of "everyone just works together and does good stuff okay" type of co-op stuff that we've been getting. You'd have heroic, villainous, and co-operative missions all in one area.

Though we're getting off topic.
I don't like the idea of zones where the missions have opposing goals for each side but we have five each other as we pass between them. If we are working against each other we should not have direct access unless we are in PvP.


 

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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
And yes, redside DOES need more zones - hopefully ones that don't look like trash heaps in the middle of the ocean.
But that would blend in so well with the rest of the island trash heaps that Recluse's lackeys call home


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Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
...Removing travel time does not dumb down things in any way. It simply removes pointless padding.

You're free to be in favor of pointless padding, but that's not the same thing as giving the players an "I win" button.
Your points that it is not a matter of an I Win Button are valid, but throughout you dismiss zoning as meaningless (other than a time sink bother).

One man's pointless padding is another's varying flavor with changing locales.

Dark Astoria is a poor example, as any time we get a reason to go there should be a good experience, in my book.

Of course, I'm not going to deny an excessive tendency to bounce players to a different zone to an annoying degree with every mission Blue Side...
Personally, any issues I have with that are not with the traveling and zoning aspect... just with the why are you sending me here and there and no cell phone numbers?

So, we do have some common ground, hehe.

Still... Memphis Bill's first reply rang true with me on this one.
Not to make it easy... but just to slowly rob all aspects of immersion from the game world.
I like a game world that forces you to pass by the roses for the ocassional sensory intake of their aroma.


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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight View Post
Dark Astoria is a poor example, as any time we get a reason to go there should be a good experience, in my book.
In my opinion, any time you go to any given zone it should (usually) be because you chose to go there. If you want to go to Dark Astoria and "experience" it, you should be able to run arcs there. Your "expeirence" of Dark Astoria should not be randomly having to go there to do a Council mission in the middle of an arc that otherwise is not even remotely related to Dark Astoria.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU View Post
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

 

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You all are a bunch of wimps. I remember needing to circumvent Britannia in Ultima IV like three times on a quest just to get everything to make climbing gear so I can cut through the mountains instead of going around and around.

And with all the various short cuts now in CoH/V that make travel many times faster between zones, the only problem you could have is keeping the team together as you travel to the next mission since the longer the time between missions, the greater the chance someone will go off and train or hit the stores along the way.

I swear half the people who hate AE babies want exactly what they have for regular play, near zero travel time between missions. Then what's the point of zones to begin with? What's next, complaining the zone is too big like IP? Well boo flippin hoo!

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Posted

I don't have a problem with zoning like some people seem to have. That said, I wouldn't mind some of the random zoning in the old hero content being toned down.

The devs already realise this though, since all the content released in recent years only goes to another zone when there's a point to it. A contact in Sharkhead will typically only send you to Mercy if the mission, storywise, actually takes place in Mercy. And this is the way it should be. If you have a problem with that I suggest you restrict yourself to AE missions. No zoing required ever.


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I don't mind zoning when it makes sense. A contact I have is tracking stuff related to the CoT; they have a presence in a large number of neighborhoods in the city. It makes sense that Boss A's lair I'm currently checking out may not be in the same neighborhood as the lair that Boss 8's is. I'm OK with that.

I'm even OK with Numina's massive, multi-zone hunt. I actually kind of like that from time to time; it's a flavor you don't see very often. It's showing "my, how you've grown!" - from hunting lowly Hellions all the way up through the ranks. You're watching your progress in hyperspeed. (It doesn't hurt that you can split up through the first several hunts and progress MUCH faster that way. You don't ALL have to go to each zone for each step.) Although I do think that you should get your own instance of the zone so that you're not interrupted for up to fifteen minutes at a time when some kind of event is playing out. I'm looking at you, zombie invasions that no one cares about and linger around forever and ever and ever.

However, if I'm doing filler missions that don't have any connection to pretty much any story, they should all be in the same zone (preferably the same zone as the contact, at least until you get their phone number), or AT MOST one splash page away.


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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
Um...

The hollows has pretty much always been a hazard zone. Still is.
After the Hollows revamp. it became more of a mildly perilous zone than a hazard zone.


 

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I will keep to my guns from years past and keep supporting zoning as a legitimate part of the game. Few things make the game feel like a soulless grind like being stuck in the same zone for an entire five levels with nothing else to see but the same tired old terrain. Sharkhead is this way, Nerva is this way and, to be honest, all of Praetoria is this way.

Travelling from zone to zone makes the city feel larger, and it gives the scenery some variety. Requests to restrict all missions only to the same zone as the contact strikes me as the next best thing to instituting a mission hub from which to access all missions directly without needing the overworld at all, and I feel the game would only lose out for it.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
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Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
Wait, let me try.

All missions should alternate from the farthest reach of the Storm Palace to the farthest corner of Dark Astoria, with a stop to talk to an NPC at the back corner of The Hive. Because not making people travel long distances for no reason would be too easy.
I see you've done the Shadow Shard TFs then


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
Crossing the street isn't crossing 5 zones for no reason. Especially going to obscure zones like Dark Astoria. In fact, one of the reasons I'm opposed to constant zoning is it makes my client crash faster.

And dumbing down isn't the same thing as removing pointless time sinks. Unless you think there's actually a challenge presented by going to another zone.
Yes, because the villains out to take over and destroy the world are going to set up shop in locations that are convenient to the heroes trying to stop them.

If I were a villain in this game, I would make sure my base was in Crey's Folly, Dark Astoria, or Boomtown, just so I don't have heroes running past my secret entrance all day.


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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
If I were a villain in this game, I would make sure my base was in Crey's Folly, Dark Astoria, or Boomtown, just so I don't have heroes running past my secret entrance all day.
I would build a massive death ray right by the Super Group registration desk.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
Crossing the street isn't crossing 5 zones for no reason. Especially going to obscure zones like Dark Astoria. In fact, one of the reasons I'm opposed to constant zoning is it makes my client crash faster.

And dumbing down isn't the same thing as removing pointless time sinks. Unless you think there's actually a challenge presented by going to another zone.
Faultline to Dark Astoria isn't that bad, Pocket D links Faultline and Talos, go from there to Dark A.

In fact even without the Pocket D link it's Faultline, Skyway, Talos DA. And the distance needed to be travelled in Skyway isn't long.

The travelling is the last thing I'd be complaining about in a Manti TF. What about every other bloody thing about it (the same map and enemy type nearly all the way through, a non-existant story and a non-entity as the final AV. You don't get to fight the noteworthy adversary at the end, you get to fight their butler!)


 

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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
If I were a villain in this game, I would make sure my base was in Crey's Folly, Dark Astoria, or Boomtown, just so I don't have heroes running past my secret entrance all day.
I'd put my base somewhere I can send my minions out to get me coffee without them getting eaten by zombies or Devouring Earth.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
I know we've gotten enhancements to travel in recent times. Ships go to more places, fly and sprint are faster, and whatnot. But it's still not a solution to the real problem: asking you to zone is nothing but an ancient relic of time-wasting past; an artificial lengthener to slow you down and make the content feel longer than it is.
Wrong. To you it might be nothing more, but there will be others to whom it enriches the overall gameplay experience.

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Originally Posted by brophog02 View Post
Let's make the game contain one building with infinite missions.
Nail. Head.

The zoning is part of a game concept that doesn't revolve around a selection menu and a quick play button. There's a virtual world out there and it's there for a reason. Personally I see no trouble with making my way across some of it even if the task I've got at that particular moment doesn't strictly require it.
That's really my whole 2 cts right there, but just for the sake of demonstrating there's a different perspective from yours that goes in an entirely opposite direction I'll have you know the following as well:

I in fact am one of those who'll never be fully happy with all those "improvements" you mentioned. I don't want temp travel powers, but alas, so be it. The fact trains and ferries started going to all places though made me even a whole lot more sad. Green line and yellow line merging. Ferry going right from Grandville to Mercy, that was just horrible. The day the update that implemented those changes was deployed is a dark page in my CoX history book.
To be perfectly honest, I long back to hovering through Hollows.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by LISAR View Post
I don't like the idea of zones where the missions have opposing goals for each side but we have five each other as we pass between them. If we are working against each other we should not have direct access unless we are in PvP.

Uhhhh, so you hate all of Praetoria?


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