Quote:
What's sad is people foret his other great shows!|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Actually based on what's happened over the last several years it seems like the exact reverse to me. I'm guessing Kelly didn't start out with this idea about a "generic superheroine show" and somehow managed to grab the Wonder woman license to try to legitimize it. It seems more like the Wonder Woman license was floating around in limbo waiting for someone to pick it up and try to make something out of it.
There have been several big names associated with trying to write scripts for Wonder Woman in the last few years. As has been mentioned even people like Joss Whedon were related to the property not too long ago. My guess is that they finally decided to trust the property to Kelly simply because he has a track record of successful TV shows. Now I'll tell you point-blank I NEVER watched Ally McBeal myself and always thought the concept of the show sounded completely silly. But no one can deny that it had five seasons worth of episodes and was well liked by many people. I guess there's no accounting for taste... I think the true irony here is that people are going nuts over the slim possibility that Kelly might be able to make a -successful- show out of this mess. We all know the chances that this'll become "Wonder McBeal" is about 99.9% and there are people here who hate that idea with a passion. But what would be worse than someone perverting their beloved amazon warrior into "Wonder Mcbeal" than to have "Wonder McBeal" actually become a popular show? I almost want to see that happen just to laugh.  |
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I'd support seeing if someone could make that idea work before, once again, I -assumed- it was a dumb idea. These characters have been around for 70+ years - why must they be 100% static for every generation?|
Originally Posted by Liquid
It's not an assumption! It's not Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman doesn't do that.
You know, I have a question: Would anyone support the idea of Superman having a "public identity" of Kal-El that ran a corporation called Krypton Industries, that sold Superman merchandise? |
As case in point at first I thought it was a very weird/dumb idea for the recent Daivd Eick Battlestar Galactica to change the roles of Boomer and Starbuck to females. I had actually watched the original BSG when it first aired and I just thought the whole idea of such a fundamental change was near-blasphemy. Turns out it worked out quite well and became part of a show that had 4 MORE seasons than the original series.
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Are you counting that godawful series where they actually got to Earth and every week was Face and Apollo being chased by what every earthling assumed was a guy going to a fancy-dress party as a robot with the light from Kitt stuck in its face?
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Originally Posted by Lothic
I'd support seeing if someone could make that idea work before, once again, I -assumed- it was a dumb idea. These characters have been around for 70+ years - why must they be 100% static for every generation?
As case in point at first I thought it was a very weird/dumb idea for the recent Daivd Eick Battlestar Galactica to change the roles of Boomer and Starbuck to females. I had actually watched the original BSG when it first aired and I just thought the whole idea of such a fundamental change was near-blasphemy. Turns out it worked out quite well and became part of a show that had 4 MORE seasons than the original series. |
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They don't have to be 100% static. But there's a core to the character that is very important. Batman and Iron Man run corporations. It's part of what makes them who they are. Superman and Wonder Woman do not run corporations. Making them run one changes their core concepts. |
Originally Posted by Lothic
I'd support seeing if someone could make that idea work before, once again, I -assumed- it was a dumb idea. These characters have been around for 70+ years - why must they be 100% static for every generation?
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Quote:
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As case in point at first I thought it was a very weird/dumb idea for the recent Daivd Eick Battlestar Galactica to change the roles of Boomer and Starbuck to females. I had actually watched the original BSG when it first aired and I just thought the whole idea of such a fundamental change was near-blasphemy. Turns out it worked out quite well and became part of a show that had 4 MORE seasons than the original series.
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Quote:
No. That was "Galactica 1980" and most people do their best to pretend that doesn't exist. |
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Are you counting that godawful series where they actually got to Earth and every week was Face and Apollo being chased by what every earthling assumed was a guy going to a fancy-dress party as a robot with the light from Kitt stuck in its face?
|
The original BSG I'm refering to was the 22 epsiode run that started back in 1978.
David Eick's BSG was the series that ran from 2004-2009.
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I've been a fan of Wonder Woman for over 30 years.|
Originally Posted by Liquid
They don't have to be 100% static. But there's a core to the character that is very important. Batman and Iron Man run corporations. It's part of what makes them who they are. Superman and Wonder Woman do not run corporations. Making them run one changes their core concepts.
If you rank Wonder Woman on the same level with characters from a 1-season (or 1.5 season if you count Battlestar 1980) ensemble sci-fi from the late 70s, then I think I understand our difference in perspective. |
I simply have no need to keep the character in a box unchanged forever. *shrugs*
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I just said she didn't need to be 100% static. But I guess you've decided that's what I'm saying, so I don't really see the point in continuing this discussion.
|
Originally Posted by Lothic
I've been a fan of Wonder Woman for over 30 years.
I simply have no need to keep the character in a box unchanged forever. *shrugs* |
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If she doesn't need to be "100% static" then why can't Wonder Woman have a "corporate front" that she uses to further her heroic goals? You can't say that you would accept change in a character over time and then turn around and say there are things about them you can't change. Who are you, I or anyone else to lay the ground rules on that?|
Originally Posted by Liquid
I just said she didn't need to be 100% static. But I guess you've decided that's what I'm saying, so I don't really see the point in continuing this discussion.
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I understand this new show is "outside your comfort zone" and I myself have never once said that I think what they are doing is 100% guaranteed to work as a new TV show. That's STILL not going to stop me from giving it a chance.
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Because there are numbers between 0% and 100%.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
If she doesn't need to be "100% static" then why can't Wonder Woman have a "corporate front" that she uses to further her heroic goals?
|
The character doesn't need to be "unfamiliar with the ways of man's world" anymore. She can grow out of that. She doesn't have to have the invisible jet. She doesn't have to have the exact same costume (but I'd appreciate it if they tried to keep the important elements to make her recognizable. This costume will be okay if they fix the shininess). She doesn't have to be involved with Steve Trevor.
But this third identity is a BIG change to her as a person. And I'm against that change as much as I'd be against Batman not having Wayne Enterprises.
Quote:
| I understand this new show is "outside your comfort zone" and I myself have never once said that I think what they are doing is 100% guaranteed to work as a new TV show. That's STILL not going to stop me from giving it a chance. |
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I'm willing to bet there will be things I won't like about the show either, and that's even if a miracle occurs and it gets like 10 seasons worth of episodes. But I won't really know that for sure until I actually WATCH the show.|
Originally Posted by Liquid
Because there are numbers between 0% and 100%.
The character doesn't need to be "unfamiliar with the ways of man's world" anymore. She can grow out of that. She doesn't have to have the invisible jet. She doesn't have to have the exact same costume (but I'd appreciate it if they tried to keep the important elements to make her recognizable. This costume will be okay if they fix the shininess). She doesn't have to be involved with Steve Trevor. But this third identity is a BIG change to her as a person. And I'm against that change as much as I'd be against Batman not having Wayne Enterprises. It's not about my "comfort zone", it's about the integrity of the character. And I'm not trying to stop you from giving it a chance. I'm going to give it a chance. |
Much like my BSG Boomer/Starbuck example there are many shows that sounded like there were going to be terrible elements to them that eventually worked out within their own environments. Will this new show manage the same? Your "expert opinion" on it is as good as my "expert opinion".
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There are some things that I don't need to see in completion to agree or disagree with. If they proposed giving Wonder Woman a gambling addiction, I wouldn't need to see that to think it didn't fit the character. If they proposed making her made of blue energy, I wouldn't need to see that to think that it didn't fit the character. If they proposed making her male, I wouldn't need to see that to think that it didn't fit the character.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
I'm willing to bet there will be things I won't like about the show either, and that's even if a miracle occurs and it gets like 10 seasons worth of episodes. But I won't really know that for sure until I actually WATCH the show.
Much like my BSG Boomer/Starbuck example there are many shows that sounded like there were going to be terrible elements to them that eventually worked out within their own environments. |
Quote:
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Will this new show manage the same? Your "expert opinion" on it is as good as my "expert opinion".
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I'm just saying that Wonder Woman would not be CEO of a company named after her homeland that sells merchandise branded with her superhero identity, and I think having her do that shows a lack of respect for the character. If you disagree, that's fine. I just want to be clear when expressing my opinion, and make sure that you understand that my opinion is not "she cannot be changed in any way for a TV show".
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It'd be like making Superman a communist! |
Originally Posted by Liquid
I'm just saying that Wonder Woman would not be CEO of a company named after her homeland that sells merchandise branded with her superhero identity, and I think having her do that shows a lack of respect for the character.
|
Oh, wait....
Quote:
That was a really good Elseworlds story.
|
Originally Posted by Cowman
It'd be like making Superman a communist!
Oh, wait.... |
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Wonder Woman as originally presented was something of a proto-feminist, so her selling her own image is merely an outgrowth of that attitude. If someone is going to sell it anyway, why shouldn't she own it herself and do some good with the profits?
I wonder if they'll go back to her roots and have her get into the predicaments she did then. Looking at the original stories, WW really manages to get herself tied up and spanked with amazing frequency.
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Quote:
That was her weakness.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
I wonder if they'll go back to her roots and have her get into the predicaments she did then. Looking at the original stories, WW really manages to get herself tied up and spanked with amazing frequency.
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If a man tied her up, she lost her powers.
Quote:
You know. Thinking back to the WW animated movie. It does talk about them needing to get out to the rest of the world again and not stay locked away on the island.|
Originally Posted by Liquid
There are some things that I don't need to see in completion to agree or disagree with. If they proposed giving Wonder Woman a gambling addiction, I wouldn't need to see that to think it didn't fit the character. If they proposed making her made of blue energy, I wouldn't need to see that to think that it didn't fit the character. If they proposed making her male, I wouldn't need to see that to think that it didn't fit the character.
You keep focusing on whether the show will work. While I did predict that it would fail much earlier in the thread (but I don't claim to be an "expert" on anything of that nature), that is not the topic of our conversation. I'm just saying that Wonder Woman would not be CEO of a company named after her homeland that sells merchandise branded with her superhero identity, and I think having her do that shows a lack of respect for the character. If you disagree, that's fine. I just want to be clear when expressing my opinion, and make sure that you understand that my opinion is not "she cannot be changed in any way for a TV show". |
This can be a bit of the way for them to do it.
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I still think this show is DOA. In the older show and time, men were running the world. This is 2011, and women have infested everything or are on the verge of it. Diana would be fighting women villains now more than men. This show is lost. Wonder Woman...the whole world is waiting for....your products?
Quote:
Wow.
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Originally Posted by Residentx10
This is 2011, and women have infested everything
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Residentx10
I This is 2011, and women have infested everything or are on the verge of it.
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If only this were true. I'd love having my house infested with women. BTW how many women must there be to qualify as an infestation? 2? 3? A dozen?
Quote:
The amount of wrong you have is amazing.|
Originally Posted by Residentx10
I still think this show is DOA. In the older show and time, men were running the world. This is 2011, and women have infested everything or are on the verge of it. Diana would be fighting women villains now more than men. This show is lost. Wonder Woman...the whole world is waiting for....your products?
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Feel free to take your wrong elsewhere.
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You were able to decipher that? All I got from it was that Res appears to be infested with tiny women since the new year.
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Originally Posted by Smersh
The amount of wrong you have is amazing.
Feel free to take your wrong elsewhere. |
Quote:
Just remember that for every woman you see, there's a hundred more that you don't.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
BTW how many women must there be to qualify as an infestation? 2? 3? A dozen?
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Quote:
I can hear them, they're in walls! They're in the goldanged walls!!
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Originally Posted by Cowman
Just remember that for every woman you see, there's a hundred more that you don't.
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Quote:
Orly?!
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Originally Posted by Residentx10
This is 2011, and women have infested everything or are on the verge of it.
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