One global one server list once more EU is told they are loosers!


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Originally Posted by Wytch_EU View Post
Appending EU and/or NA to names imho is not the best idea. Amongst other things its devisive. Probably not a huge amount given the friendliness of the CoX community, but it is. All labels are.
GLOBAL HANDLES WILL NOT BE CHANGED TO EU____.

Login names will be changed to EU____. This is not something that is visible to anyone who is not looking at the player's login screen. This should, of course, be no one but the player who is logging in. Why should ANYONE ELSE care about your login name? Why should you care about two extra letters tacked onto the beginning of your login, which honestly, should not match your global name anyway! (What kind of security is that?)

Global handles will be changed to the character you first log in as, as if you were first joining the game, or as if after a global wipe. If you log in your character GryphonButtmonkey after the merge, your global name will now be GryphonButtmonkey. If there is a North American player whose global name is GryphonButtmonkey, your new global name will be GryphonButtmonke. If there is a NA GryphonButtmonke already, your new global name will be GryphonButtmonk. This will continue until you have a unique global name.

Anyone whose global name suffers from collision will get a free global rename token. Feel free to attempt your original global name; chances are high that it's not taken by a NA player unless it's a common name/word/phrase or you made a NA account with the same global, or, rarely, someone took it out of spite.


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Originally Posted by Dante View Post
There's been a history of the EU community lagging behind the NA in terms of service and although things have improved, this latest move could be interpreted as just another kick to the shins of EU subscribers as it impacts us the most heavily. With a smaller player base, there comes a tighter knit community and facing the fact that we could all be called something different in a few months time because it is 'the most efficient' does feel as if the path of least resistance was chosen over the one that would harm the community least.
I find it highly unlikely that all or a majority of EU global handles would be affected by the merge. It probably is the case that the path of least resistance was chosen, but only because no other path affects less people. If there was a less efficient path that affected less players, I'm reasonably sure that would have been the option taken.

Deliberately going out of their way to affect *more* players than the minimum number has issues, as does expending more work to affect the *same* number of players. No proposal affects *less* players. At best, they affect *different* players. Its entirely in the eye of the beholder as to whether that is an intrinsicly better solution.

Whoever is affected will likely not like it. I'm not comfortable stating who is more and less "deserving" of keeping their global handles, except in the specific case of trial accounts not upgraded to full accounts, so I'm less inclined to give such arguments the same weight others are.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Deliberately going out of their way to affect *more* players than the minimum number has issues, as does expending more work to affect the *same* number of players. No proposal affects *less* players. At best, they affect *different* players. Its entirely in the eye of the beholder as to whether that is an intrinsicly better solution.
I would expect the devs to put in the work to find a system which affects the least number of players and does so fairly. Fair being defined as applied equally between all players. NA players with conflicts due to the merge should have a chance at having to endure the global change. It could be based on the earliest account date or even upon a winning a coin toss gets to keep their name and the other gets the _EU or _NA appended as appropriate. The point being that each person potentially affected should share some of the risk and not have is shouldered squarely by one section of the player base.


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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
Yeah?

And maybe you need to realise that people can and will express their annoyance at NCSoft pulling this ****.
<snort> Yeah, we already know that. The point was that yelling and threatening a ragequit isn't productive in getting things changed. It just makes people more likely to ignore the shouter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante View Post
this latest move could be interpreted as just another kick to the shins of EU subscribers as it impacts us the most heavily. With a smaller player base, there comes a tighter knit community and facing the fact that we could all be called something different in a few months time because it is 'the most efficient' does feel as if the path of least resistance was chosen over the one that would harm the community least.
But it's going to "harm" the same number of people whether the adjustment is made on the EU or NA accounts. If doing it one way is much easier, from a time and expense standpoint, then that way wins. This is a business. And people are going to ragequit NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO. Someone ragequits over every single thing that happens in the game. This is inevitable with a large population.


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Originally Posted by Sir_Zane View Post
I would expect the devs to put in the work to find a system which affects the least number of players and does so fairly. Fair being defined as applied equally between all players.
I would expect the people who own the game (the devs aren't running this show) to pick the method that they estimate will put (keep) the most money in their pockets. Obviously, keeping as many of your players as happy as possible, is the way to do this, balanced against the expense. If they could calculate exact costs and numbers of players who would leave, this would be a simple equation. If it's going to cost us $1,000 each to retain X number of players, say good-bye. If it's going to cost us $50 each to retain X number of players, that's the way to go.

It always amazes me how many people come out of the woodwork to offer a 'better' way to do things. Somehow, they think they have better ideas than the employees of a company that do this for a living every single day. They know some people aren't going to like this. They know some people will feel it's not fair or right. And they know some people will quit over it. And they're probably going to do it anyway because they feel it's the correct business decision. I say probably because someone MIGHT come up with a cogent argument to do it differently - but it doesn't seem likely.


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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
Your spelling and grammar won't cut together a video. Or write a PHP server-side script. Or design an entire website. Or tweak the audio for a two-hour long documentary. Or paint up a 40GB piece of art for a client.

Though I will commend you for having the brass balls to say something like that. :P
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Originally Posted by Shadowe View Post
Very bold statement, and not one I would expect anyone to be able to back up unless they admit that they are a Professor of Language Studies (or equivalent) at a major University and know (not simply guess, but know) that the other player is not a similar Professor.
I'm guessing it's a pretty safe bet. Just didn't care for her tone, donchaknow.


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Originally Posted by Ironik View Post
I'm guessing it's a pretty safe bet. Just didn't care for her tone, donchaknow.
*don't you know





(Haha, just figured I'd take your offering there!)


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Originally Posted by Ironik View Post
Besides the awards and accolades I've won for language arts, I've won national and regional awards for my filmmaking and video work. Three of those is for documentary films. Both recent versions of iMovie and FCP incorporated changes that I suggested to Apple. (You're welcome.) I also won some website design awards about 12 years ago before I lost interest in that type of work, but I'm belaboring the point.
And then he stopped the aliens from stealing our nitrogen, and invented quantum cheese.

Today he stands ready to malaproposly regurgitate a border line solipsistic list of accolades to further digress a discussion about on the impending degradation of other individuals' cyber anima. Truly a divine exhibit for all egocentric dullards.

edit

Hehe "about on"


 

Posted

IMO the fairest way in the event of a conflict is to award the unmodified global to the longest active account.

It is not fair to have to give up your global to an NA account just because you have an EU account. Just as others were saying that its not fair for an NA account to lose its global to a 1 month EU account, it is also not fair for a 6 year EU account to lose its global to a 2 year NA account. The thing all you NA players have to remember is that even if this seems like a minor issue, after years and years of second class treatment this just feels like a final kick in the teeth to a lot of us.

And as a side note, I find it amusing that the people who are at no risk of losing their globals are the ones trying to tell us that its no big deal.


 

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Originally Posted by Ironblade View Post
<snort> Yeah, we already know that. The point was that yelling and threatening a ragequit isn't productive in getting things changed. It just makes people more likely to ignore the shouter.
Despite your later point, very few posters here have been 'yelling and threatening'. Theres been a lot of 'We are not satisfied with this' and requests for it to get looked at and hopefully changed.
But none of the 'toys out of the pram' that you seem to see.


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Originally Posted by Bosstone View Post
He didn't say anything about the quote in the original post you nitpicked. He italicized his own writing.
I swear, Boss, the phrase "reading is fundamental" is lost on this generation. Thanks for "getting it".


 

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Originally Posted by Ironik View Post
Besides the awards and accolades I've won for language arts I've won national and regional awards for my filmmaking and video work. Three of those is for documentary films.
Hmmm...


 

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Originally Posted by docbuzzard View Post
I don't imagine the notion that those names were likely in use on the NA servers before you even started playing occurred to you?

I don't think you have any idea how fast the good names got snatched up in the first year. Names as obviously appealing as those were probably gone in the first 3 months.
As character names, they probably were in use. Globals, however, didn't go live until almost a week after the EU servers went live. February 4th, 2005 was the live date for EU and February 9th, 2005 was the date for the Global Chat initial release for the live servers.

There was a period beforehand here on the NA forums to change your forum handle to reserve your Global handle, but that would have only been known to those who come to the forums, or had heard about it from friends who did. With the option to transfer accounts from NA to EU, some of these players might even be losing their Globals to the ghosts of their former accounts.


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Originally Posted by StormSurvivor View Post
Also, what was wrong with the official discussion thread? There's plenty of people on both sides of the disagreement there making fair and unfair points. I don't really understand why we needed another thread for discussing the same thing.
I say we name this thread "EU_One global one server list once more EU is told they are loosers!" and the other thread "US_One global one server list once more EU is told they are loosers!" and piss everybody off.


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Originally Posted by Ms. Mesmer View Post
As character names, they probably were in use. Globals, however, didn't go live until almost a week after the EU servers went live. February 4th, 2005 was the live date for EU and February 9th, 2005 was the date for the Global Chat initial release for the live servers.

There was a period beforehand here on the NA forums to change your forum handle to reserve your Global handle, but that would have only been known to those who come to the forums, or had heard about it from friends who did. With the option to transfer accounts from NA to EU, some of these players might even be losing their Globals to the ghosts of their former accounts.
The EU players however didnt get Global Names until several months after the US players did.


 

Posted

<QR>

For what it's worth, I think that the method they've described is less than ideal. Personally, I think that they should state some goals and design a system to implement it. Right now, their goal is explicitly stated as, "minimum number of users impacted." I'd like to see something more like:

  • Current subscribers get priority over people whose accounts have lapsed.
  • The above point is tempered by people whose accounts have not been lapsed very long, possibly due to a mistake or a short break.
  • People who have been playing (i.e. paying) get priority over people who haven't been playing as long.
  • Least number of people impacted.

I think that something like this would work a lot better:
  • If there is a conflict between an active EU and an active NA account, whoever has the most paid active time under their belt gets priority.
  • For purposes of determining priority, people whose accounts have become inactive within the previous four weeks will be considered active, but the time your account has been inactive will not count as paid active time as described above. If your account is inactive due to a billing glitch or you are taking a short break, likely to return, you will not be adversely affected.
  • If there is a conflict between an active account and an inactive account, the active account will have priority. It doesn't matter whether the active account is an NA account or a EU account, or vice versa.
  • If there is a conflict between two inactive accounts, the inactive account with the most paid active time under their belt gets priority.
  • If there is a tie (e.g. if both accounts are trial accounts with zero paid active time), both global names are released. Whoever logs on first and gets the global name back retains it.

Such a system really shouldn't be that hard to implement with a few database queries, and I think that people would be a lot happier. I completely understand that frustration of my European brethren at the possibility of someone having created a long-expired trial account with their global name, and someone who has been a loyal customer for years loses out to someone who has never paid NCsoft a dime. I would be angry too.

Please, though, keep in mind that as some have mentioned above, getting all angry and indignant about it is not the way to get them to change their mind. Send some PMs to the community reps, post some messages politely explaining how you feel and requesting them to think it through further, and there is a decent chance that they will change their mind and do something else. They have before for such issues.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironik View Post
Besides the awards and accolades I've won for language arts, I've won national and regional awards for my filmmaking and video work. Three of those is for documentary films. Both recent versions of iMovie and FCP incorporated changes that I suggested to Apple. (You're welcome.) I also won some website design awards about 12 years ago before I lost interest in that type of work, but I'm belaboring the point.
Normally I never say this, but... pics or it never happened. What name should I look for on the developer list for iMovie/FCP?

Edit: As an additional note, saying your suggestion for a feature/change was used in a major program by a major company isn't much of an 'accomplishment.' TONS of people make suggestions, and most of them are all for the same thing.


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Posted

For those who have an inactive NA Trial account with same name (and global)...

I send an official incident/mail to NCSOFT Support to have the trial removed/deleted. Including my wishes... why... and the copy of the exact details of the account.

Even if we are unable to remove the old Trial... NCSOFT dbase administration can remove it! And an official incident will be followed up. Checked now and indeed it has been send to the North-American Support Team.

Do this in time! Maybe they can/will remove the old/unwanted game account and that will prevent a lot of hassle later on.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenebris_EU View Post
IMO the fairest way in the event of a conflict is to award the unmodified global to the longest active account.

It is not fair to have to give up your global to an NA account just because you have an EU account. Just as others were saying that its not fair for an NA account to lose its global to a 1 month EU account, it is also not fair for a 6 year EU account to lose its global to a 2 year NA account. The thing all you NA players have to remember is that even if this seems like a minor issue, after years and years of second class treatment this just feels like a final kick in the teeth to a lot of us.

And as a side note, I find it amusing that the people who are at no risk of losing their globals are the ones trying to tell us that its no big deal.
As a NA player posting on this thread I have never once claimed that:

1) The way the Devs are doing this is the "fairest way" or the "perfect way" to do it.
2) That this situation is a "minor issue" or "no big deal".
3) That EU players who are affected by this don't deserve to be reasonably upset.

But what I will continue to claim is that given the constraints of engineering and business realities at hand the way the Devs are handling this is likely the cheapest, easiest, least impactful way to accomplish the job at hand. Is it perfect? No. Is it fair? No. But business is business.

People can obviously continue to be upset with it if they want to be. But at the end of the day you can only spit so much into the wind before you either accept the reality of the situation one way of the other. Our Devs have to balance the interests of the players as well as their own interests and along the way they are bound to piss a few people off here or there. But as with every other "game-shattering" controversy the game will continue long after the dust settles on this regardless.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Wytch_EU View Post
Appending EU and/or NA to names imho is not the best idea.
Well they're not going to.

I'm not having a go at you Wytch, but the number of people arguing over the wrong thing in this thread is amazing; if your @global conflicts you'll get a new one based on whatever character you log in as, if that conflicts too, then they'll chip characters off until it doesn't; so as has been mentioned, we can all look forward to greeting FFM's mum, FloatingFatMa

In the absence of complicated 'who had the name first' rules, I would have thought the fairest way to do this would be to add NA_ or EU_ to every single global name, then issue a rename token to every non-trial account. Everyone then gets a fairly equal (time-zones aside) chance to reclaim their global - including from long abandoned accounts on either side.

Heck the game could even make some money if some of those players re-subbed for a month to keep their names.

I was thinking of reactivating my EU account when the server lists merge, but I don't want to be known as @Sugar_Rus !


 

Posted

You would quit because you loose your GLOBAL handle ? not even the name of your main and most beloved character ?

WOW, you leave me speachless.


 

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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Despite your later point, very few posters here have been 'yelling and threatening'. Theres been a lot of 'We are not satisfied with this' and requests for it to get looked at and hopefully changed.
But none of the 'toys out of the pram' that you seem to see.
Oh, I wasn't saying most, or even many, were acting like that. But the original post definitely fits the bill.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinomania View Post
You would quit because you loose your GLOBAL handle ? not even the name of your main and most beloved character ?

WOW, you leave me speachless.
Who says they aren't one and the same ?



Either way, apologies if anyone in this thread (or the other thread) thought I was being horrible. I've tried to be careful to be a bit light humoured about something that's miffing me.

But as I've stated even if I lose my global I wouldn't ragequit. Rage isn't really in my vocabulary. I'd just dust myself off and mumble to myself and be a little unhappier about the relationship we in the EU have with the Devs and then I'd carry on playing as usual.

This isn't enough to have me quit the game, but it is enough to make me come onto these forums and actually post multiple times, which is something I haven't done in a while.

After this is all over I'll probably go back to my lurker status again. LOL

Truly I'm looking forward to the list merge and the possibilities it presents. I don't see it as a huge benefit that some are touting it to be, but I have frequented the US alot over the years and actually lived in Toronto Canada for a while so I do love the North American peeps and culture, and playing on the US Servers from time to time I'm sure will be fun. And I hope you guys pop onto Defiant and look us up (come join the Echelon SG on Defiant, we rock!!! Check us out pre merger at http://theechelon.eu/forum/ ).

I just have a bitter taste in my mouth about the way it's being handled and the possibility I'm going to lose my name and have to become some new identity.


Anyhow's sorry if I have angered anyone over the past couple of days. Never intended.


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Posted

And clearly the EU playerbase has had a rather different experience.
(Unless I am mistaken) Their entire playerbase has two English-Language servers.
That alone creates a different atmosphere than the NA playerbase's community.
I pretty much only play on one server, but I interact with several on these boards that only play on some other server and so on.

I just think it is worth reminding people that differing values are placed in different things (not just because of EU/NA) and that, just because you or I don't feel as strongly about something it doesn't mean someone else is inherently wrong to feel the way they do.

Of course there are extremes that could be classified as altogether unhealthy, but I don't think we've really seen any signs of such a thing.

While global names may not be the thing that does it for you... there is probably some silly thing that would upset you if it were tampered with, removed and/or otherwise altered.
It happens.
Hopefully things will work out well.


EDIT: Oh, and Liz, do let everyone know how that process turns out (as I'm sure you will). That scenario (inactive NA accounts of your own) seems to be the most likely culprit in messing things up.
Of course, I'm imagining that the Paragon Studios team will do something to counteract that, but it is always best to do whatever you can yourself!


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