One global one server list once more EU is told they are loosers!
Now, giving it to the one with the most time played is a good way to do it.
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it says
The game was launched in North America on April 27, 2004 and in Europe (by NCsoft Europe) on February 4, 2005
As a uk player on the us server (it wouldnt affect me) theres an instant disadvantage to eu
people on the us servers have had globals wiped but it was due to the global channel kinks when it first started (think it happened twice) it was a mad dash to get the global you wanted after everyone noticed
if they hand out global rename tokens then (hopefully) you can get the desired global
there will no matter how its done be people who dont get there desired names
on the brightside least its not a server merge
losing your global is nothing compared to having a 1 after your mains name
as others have meationed new alts will be created on the eu servers your available name pools about to be butchered
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as others have meationed new alts will be created on the eu servers your available name pools about to be butchered
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Now as far as the availability of character names is concerned you do realize that that is a two way street. Yes NA players will be claiming character names on the EU servers just like EU players will be claiming character names on the NA servers.
I wouldn't be surprised to see that more EU players will take advantage of expanding the number of servers they play on then NA players will, simply because NA players are jaded from having 11 servers to choose from for 7 years, and the fact that the number of NA player that speak EU languages is smaller than the number of EU players that speak English.
I can see many NA players (probably not forum goers) wrongfully assuming that there aren't a lot of English speaking players on say the French and German servers.
And the ones that make that assumption will be missing out on meeting a lot of great people.
Actually this is wrong.
It effects the same amount of people no matter which way you do it. If 5 people on the EU servers have the same name as someone on the NA Servers, either way they do it, 5 people are getting effected. Now, giving it to the one with the most time played is a good way to do it. |
You are correct. That argument has already been debunked multiple times. 500 name conflicts is 500 name conflicts. If you change the EU names, you affect 500 people. If you change the NA names, you affect 500 people.
As Arcanaville pointed out, doing it this way may mean less WORK from a programming standpoint. If you hit 500 people either way, then the way that is less work wins. |
This is not just a simple-minded case of "either 500 NA people or 500 EU people". As Ironblade/Arcanaville pointed out there are other factors which make merging the smaller group of players into the larger one the EASIER way to do it. All things being equal the EASIEST way to do this merge will be the one the Devs use.
Now I absolutely agree the FAIREST way to do it would be to compare name conflicts for "who had the name longer and let that person keep the name". But apparently (and most likely) that would be way too hard to sort through. We are talking about many thousands of accounts here.
The Devs of this game are realistically going to take the path of least resistance on this. It's not going to be the "perfect" solution, but it will be the most expedient one.
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Actually you and the others are wrong about this BrandX.
This is not just a simple-minded case of "either 500 NA people or 500 EU people". As Ironblade/Arcanaville pointed out there are other factors which make merging the smaller group of players into the larger one the EASIER way to do it. All things being equal the EASIEST way to do this merge will be the one the Devs use. Now I absolutely agree the FAIREST way to do it would be to compare name conflicts for "who had the name longer and let that person keep the name". But apparently (and most likely) that would be way too hard to sort through. We are talking about many thousands of accounts here. The Devs of this game are realistically going to take the path of least resistance on this. It's not going to be the "perfect" solution, but it will be the most expedient one. |
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Oh yes it minimizes the number of people involved, it's the same minimized number as on every collision there would be a US prepended to the US global. I have now given a solution that gives exactly the same impact, aren't you proud of me? Unless of course we count impact we count number of hours played, or months we have subscribed, then we have to consider it case to case and then we would lessen the impact compared to now. I have now told you of a way that would result in less of an impact, do you really think the devs will love to hear that I have figured out a way to do it?
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I understand you are upset by this and that it may not be the "fairest" way to do it. But I can almost guarantee (as a software engineer with almost 20 years of professional experience) that the way the Devs are doing it here will be the easiest, least impactful way to do it from THEIR point of view. If there was a way they could COST-EFFECTIVELY do this that wouldn't upset anyone I'm sure they would do it. But guess what? In the real world there's no real way to do that within real world constraints of time/money.
Sorry to break that bit of obvious news to you...
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Ahhhh I might as well post in this thread too just so the people here get my rant. LOL
Incidentally when the Global names fist went live I really wanted the global 'White Knight' and couldn't get it. Guess I know who did now!
This Global name thing is a big deal to alot of us because it's not just a CoX game identity, it's bigger than that.
City of Heroes was the first online game I played in any real capacity. I'd dabbled with a little online RTS (Command and Conquer and Age of Empires predominantly) and had a brief foray into SWG, but basically City of Heroes was where it all began.
My first character was Knightingale, and I quickly became known by that name in game. Global comes along and it became my Global. Now whenever I play a new game (cause yes I do dabble in other games outside of CoX) I use the name Knightingale. I DJ on Rogues Radio as.... you've guessed it.... DJ Knightingale.
That name has become a fairly big part of my online identity. It's not just games I use it in. When I don't want to use my real name on a website or forum, I go by Knightingale.
And I guarantee I'm not the only one who does this.
Hence potentially losing that name in the place where it all started 6 years ago feels like I'm being robbed of an identity I spent 6 years cultivating.
Plus the benefits that everyone keeps touting as the payoff for losing that name aren't nearly as big as you seem to think. I play EU side on the Defiant Server. I have an established group of friends that play on that server going back to when I joined the game. I, like alot of people, don't have altitis and hence 6 years on I haven't even filled up all my toon slots on Defiant.
Why would I want 11 more servers to play on when I haven't even expanded to Union yet?
Yes it'll be nice to dabble, and it'll be nice to meet new people, but for better or for worse Defiant is my home and I can't see myself leaving it. I'll holiday to other servers occassionally but move? Nope. All my ongoing projects toons are home on Defiant, especially now that we have Incarnate stuff to go revisit old toons. The drive to want to spread my wings to other Servers is even more diminished for me.
So what benefits am I really getting out of this? What can I realistically do that I couldn't do before?
(And I'm not particularly interested in Beta testing either, I like the surprise of logging in to see the new stuff when it goes live!)
I understand that there are a bunch of people out there who don't feel the same or aren't attached to their CoX global. Maybe some of you have multiple gaming handles and don't keep with a consistent common name. But I do. And alot of other people do.
I know some people ARE looking forward to having a more open Beta. I know some people are champing at the bit to explore new servers. I know some people have the most serious cases of Altitis ever and need 300 plus extra slots.
But not all of us. And I'd wager that it's not even the majority.
And yes to those people this may seem like we're all making a mountain out of a molehill.
Ask yourself..... if you had to move town and had to change the name you were born with and had lived your life with to this point to something else because it clashed with someone else that used to live in that town but moved out years ago, but might come back..... would you be happy to do it?
Cause at a basic level that is what this is for alot of folks. We have our real lives and our virtual lives, and to many of us our Global has become our online identity.
Sorry if that makes some of you snort and think that it's ridiculous, but that's the way alot of us EU people feel. If you aren't attached to your Global name then you'll never really understand I guess. *shrugs*
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Redside Level 50's... Colonel Rogue (Brute), Sergeant Domino (Stalk), F411-OUT (Dom)
Next Project: Psiryn Psi/Psi Cor Global Handle is @Knightingale
Also, do we really care that much about global names? I don't
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But for some people, yes. Yes this is an issue.
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Sorry if that makes some of you snort and think that it's ridiculous, but that's the way alot of us EU people feel. If you aren't attached to your Global name then you'll never really understand I guess. *shrugs*
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For those that don't, good for you.
But for some people, yes. Yes this is an issue. |
But from the "how would a group of Devs who have to live under a real world engineering situation handle this task?" point of view of I can at least look at what they are doing here and recognize that it's very likely a compromise between doing it the simplest way possible versus upsetting the least amount of people.
Is it perfect? Of course not.
Will some people be upset? Of course they will.
But unfortunately our Devs do not have the luxury of having all the time/money they need to do things perfectly. No software developer in the business of making profits ever has that kind of environment to work in. *shrugs*
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I never thought that the EU players were loose at all.
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I honestly cannot see what the problem is,ok you have a clash off global name ,people in the EU get that as a prefix does this take something away from the name no all it does is show that you are an EU player.This will explain things when some of the words used by Americans that have a different meaning to the EU words and visa versa.I have 2 accounts so 2 global names,I would like to think they are unique but they may not be First is Professor Radburn second Marshal of Paragon,will these be duplicated I hope not but if they are the EU prefix will not bother me one bit,also would like to meet up with my counter part if they are
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Exactly. These people are running a BUSINESS after all. If it's cheaper for them to do it this way they'll do it, even if it comes with the risk of pissing a few people off here or there. It's not perfect or fair, but then again they aren't getting paid for perfect and fair. *shrugs*
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For a start we all pay subscription. Now fair enough we're not paying to be treated perfectly or fairly, but the risk if you don't is that people will vote with their wallet and go elsewhere, losing the game revenue.
Not that I would, I love the game and whilst I'd be annoyed it won't drive me away.
But some people may feel that strongly and leave.
Secondly after being around a fair few years now I'd wager that the population on CoX is fairly static. Maybe a surge here or there when a new issue or release tempts a few new people in or a few old timers to return, but basically a fairly static user base I'd have thought. (I'll accept I could be wrong here, this is just supposition).
I think I saw numbers somewhere thatCoX had about 125k subscribers? Not sure if that's accurate but it could be.
Surely on a userbase that is potentially pretty static you'd want to worry about keeping that userbase happy so they all stay and contirbute to your ongoing revenue stream? Everyone you piss off and lose is someone notpaying subs. Not buying expansions packs etc. It's all money you've lost.
Plus if theserver list merge goes ahead, how many people who were running multiple accounts (and thus paying more than one sub) are going to cancel some of those accounts now that they have a plethora of new places to create toons? More money lost?
And to be honest I work in a job where we are often rolling out new Databases and merging database staff lists together and I'm not sure that there's much difference in development time needed to make things fair. Sure it's not the quickest and easiest thing to do, but I'd be amazed if it took the Dev's too long to do. So I'd be shocked if the financial considerations from a working point of view. When we want this stuff doing it often takes the Devs a few hours to knock the appropriate scripts together to do what we need, and trust me the area I work in is WAY more complicated that what we're asking for here. (We're dealing with matchingup work assignments, payroll data etc etc. Not just a name list merge dealing with appending names by startdate).
Now I freely admit that I'm not a Dev and really have no idea what is entailed at their end and that I could be underselling it. *shrugs*
But still seems to me that doing it the way they're doing it for purely business reasons is flawed.
Just smells to me like this is the easiest and quickest way.
Blueside Level 50's.... Knightingale (Def), Rogue Elevenex (Blast), Lady Rogue (Scrap), Mr Infinity (Tank), Miss Infinity (Troller), Knight.Shade (WS), Knight.Bringer (PB)
Redside Level 50's... Colonel Rogue (Brute), Sergeant Domino (Stalk), F411-OUT (Dom)
Next Project: Psiryn Psi/Psi Cor Global Handle is @Knightingale
But still seems to me that doing it the way they're doing it for purely business reasons is flawed.
Just smells to me like this is the easiest and quickest way. |
Consider this: Let's assume for the sake of argument that there are two ways to accomplish this server merge task. Method #1 costs X amount of time and money but it will likely upset some people because of global name conflicts. Method #2 costs 2X amount of time and money but it has the advantage of not upsetting anyone because it manages to treat every account fairly on a case-by-case basis. Bottomline this game would LOSE more money if they go with Method #2 than they will if they go with Method #1 and potentially suffer a few people rage-quitting. Which method do you think our Devs will use. That's right, it'll be the method that's the CHEAPEST for them, period.
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Oh no! My global might have to be changed a little bit.. or even worse....completely! AAAHH! *runs around the room screaming about the world coming to a end..then suddenly stops* Oh wait...I just remembered..its A GAME...not a big deal.. *shrugs and goes outside*
'Simplest' fix (As in, I have no idea how hard it would be to code, whatever)
-Whoever created the account first, so long as their account is still active, comes first -If an account came first but has been inactive for more than, say, 3-6 months then it loses out to an active created-second account. -Accounts that are both owend by the same person give the owner choice over what account and global goes where. -Trial Accounts are not listed for comparison, due to not being active, paying customer accounts. Fairly simple, I think? |
Maybe the people complaining would be happier if they didn't combine the servers at all?
Seriously. If NCSoft offered every player a $100 dollar bill, there'd be people complaining that it wasn't in smaller denominations.
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I'm Sorry but... It says Server List Merge. Not The EU are moving to the NA servers. Irrelivent and ignorant statement.
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A merger of server farms is qualitatively no different than a merger of servers, as far as globals are concerned. It could be much worse. They could be choosing to just shut down the EU servers and have it actually be a merge of servers. Then you would really be looking at renaming characters.
My point was that these things happen and when they do there is no choice but to resolve the conflict by making somebody unhappy. I've yet to see a game company decide to resolve the conflict by saying "Let's make EVERYBODY equally unhappy!"
Speaking for myself, I'm all for easing the pain by giving the affected people a special badge or title as compensation.
However, I have to agree with this - If there's an official thread about this topic, why are we starting side threads instead of contributing to the discussion that the devs are reading and participating in?
That's what I've been trying to tell people here. What the Devs are doing here IS the easiest and quickest way for them to do it. It's ALL for purely business reasons. There's nothing "flawed" about it.
Consider this: Let's assume for the sake of argument that there are two ways to accomplish this server merge task. Method #1 costs X amount of time and money but it will likely upset some people because of global name conflicts. Method #2 costs 2X amount of time and money but it has the advantage of not upsetting anyone because it manages to treat every account fairly on a case-by-case basis. Bottomline this game would LOSE more money if they go with Method #2 than they will if they go with Method #1 and potentially suffer a few people rage-quitting. Which method do you think our Devs will use. That's right, it'll be the method that's the CHEAPEST for them, period. |
What I dispute is whether the numbers stack up to indeed make option 1 cheapest.
To me it all depends on the time the changes will take. And that's what I nor anyone else really understands. All I have is my experience merging databases to draw on.
In my work we are merging together staff lists from some of the biggest working organisations in the UK. These are public sector organisations to give you an idea of the numbers of people. We are talking CONSIDERABLY more than 125,000 users. We're talking in the millions. Now the merges themselves take some time due to the number of people, but when we want changes made to the scripts that change the way the merges happen (i.e. to put a preference on a different dataset, i.e. Start Date, grade level, seniority etc etc)
Maybe our Devs are superhuman, but usually for us that work takes about a half day. Day at a push. After that the actual work takes between 2 and 4 days to run the merge and data cleanse it.
(Again I don't know if there any any complexities from the game I don't understand so I could very well be stupidly way off here!)
But on CoX are we really talking weeks and weeks and months of expensive development time to sort this out. I'd be stunned if that was the case. So I can't imagine it having a huge impact on a cost basis. But say you piss off 100 users and they leave the game. All paying £8 per month. For 12 months. And you lose them. You've lost £9600 that year in subs. And you'll lose that every other year that the game is live. Plus they're not buying expansion packs etc.
These are just basic numbers and as I say they could be (and probably are) pie in the sky, but in developmental hours would it really offset that cost?
Say a Developers time costs £250 per day (and if that was the case I'd love their yearly salaries!) but in a loss over the year of £9600 you could afford 38 days of development to sort the issue.
Now as I say these are really just random numbers but I'm trying to put across the point that in order to make sense financially we'd need to be talking about an awful lot of development time, and I just don't see it with my (albeit limited) experience.
I would say though that I'm NOT a Developer and I could be talking nonsense. I just know that when we're doing a similar exercise at work here the process is relatively easy and the data is way more advanced.
And now I'll shut up before I dig a bighole with the Developer community! LOL
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Redside Level 50's... Colonel Rogue (Brute), Sergeant Domino (Stalk), F411-OUT (Dom)
Next Project: Psiryn Psi/Psi Cor Global Handle is @Knightingale
Whatever it is you're good at, I'm better at spelling and grammar than you are at that. .
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Though I will commend you for having the brass balls to say something like that. :P
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I'm really not entirely sure what people are upset about. If someone in the EU has @Ajax454 or @1 Minute to Midnight, let me know. I'd be willing to change them. But I really really really don't understand what people are upset about.
I mean, it' snot like anything is going to happen to your identity; and just as well, wouldn't anyone who's a global friend keep you on their global friend list?
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Todays announcement told me that I probably has three to five months left of playing City of Heroes since the odds that @Black Light and @White Knight isn't in use anywhere on the US servers are in use feels slim to me.
I wouldn't mind loosing the right to the name, if I had had a chance of keeping them, but being told you a second class citizen, we don't care about you since US is the bigger market probably will make me quit. Admittedly I wasn't online for the first year, I didn't join until EU Beta but I've had an active account since then, and now being told that me and my name isn't worth anything since I'm not on the US servers feel bloody rotten. I'm sure there will be good things about the merger, but for me it might be the end since I wasn't even given a chance, I was just told YOU LOOSE! |
However, I italicized the crucial point for you there. This IS a good reason. Since you're merging two completely independent systems into one, you have to account for the unique IDs of each database. If there are conflicts, one has to lose. In a case where there may be hundreds, even thousands of conflicts, the best way to approach is the numbers game: Which method would impact the least amount of people?
In this case, prefacing your ID with "EU" to indicate you were originally from the EU servers, is probably the best-bet solution, with the possibility of having a global rename token applied in case you wanted to change it again.
I get it. Identity means a lot. I'd freak if there was another Turgenev out there who got my name by (from my POV) luck of the draw, when I established myself in the name for years.
But then again, the difference between you and me is substantial. I PICK weird Russian names because it's unlikely there'll ever be another Turgenev here. I've had this name for over a decade now online after having to deal with all the "Nihilist" and "Virago" copycats that were my original gaming handles.
You might be at the same crossroads: A chance to reinvent yourself in a way that truly cuts yourself as unique. "Black Light" ain't it, sad to say. I'll tell you from experience that the name was taken on Freedom way, WAY back in the Headstart of 2004 (at least for a toon name, pre-global). My first Warshade, rolled the day they came out, is named "Blackest Light" for that reason.
Maybe you need to see this as an opportunity, instead of a burden. I won't keep you from leaving, but I will tell you that in the greater scheme of things, having a dozen servers open up to you for gaming opportunity, at the cost of adding two ASCII characters to your naming prefix, is a really stupidly tiny "price" to pay.
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on the brightside least its not a server merge
losing your global is nothing compared to having a 1 after your mains name |
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I demand satisfaction!
Taunts at 30 paces!
Your spelling and grammar won't cut together a video. Or write a PHP server-side script. Or design an entire website. Or tweak the audio for a two-hour long documentary. Or paint up a 40GB piece of art for a client.
Though I will commend you for having the brass balls to say something like that. :P |
But it will make you look more intelligent and credible in a forum such as this.
When the typed word is all you have to go on in this arena there's no point in jumping in with a flawed arsenal at your disposal.
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For those that missed this:
Also, do we really care that much about global names? I don't (UK player on US servers since launch)